Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Zyzzyva wrote:I feel bad for two reasons. One, FJ is too important for the writers to ask something that would probably get BMS'd in the earlier rounds. Two, Nintendo publishes box art like this:

[img]
Wow. That's really something. I'm starting to feel they ought to invite Toby back. I hate to say that on a clue where I made the same mistake. I prefer to man up (well, penguin up) and admit I just didn't get it.

I like your observation about FJ requiring a BMS. That is totally how this would have played out if the clue had shown up during regular play. I'd be shocked and upset if Alex negged "Zelda" outright rather than asking for more. And if the contestant failed to cough up "The Legend of" at that point, I'd be more content with the neg. Not entirely, mind you. But enough so I'd just emit the exhalation of disgust and let it go.
Are you guys actually opining that because "The Legend Of" is in a different colour, size and font style, that it could be considered not part of the title of the game?

Brian
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator »

bpmod wrote:Are you guys actually opining that because "The Legend Of" is in a different colour, size and font style, that it could be considered not part of the title of the game?

Brian
All I think they're saying is that a "reasonable man" could look at that box and, knowing nothing else about it see

The Legend of
ZELDA

and easily come to the wrong conclusion.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by lisa0012 »

econgator wrote:
bpmod wrote:Are you guys actually opining that because "The Legend Of" is in a different colour, size and font style, that it could be considered not part of the title of the game?

Brian
All I think they're saying is that a "reasonable man" could look at that box and, knowing nothing else about it see

The Legend of
ZELDA

and easily come to the wrong conclusion.
Actually, I didn't even see it when I replied. But as I said, that's not the original game that is being asked about. The one below is.

Image
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Mathew5000
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Mathew5000 »

alamble wrote:Plus, the game itself has never been officially released as just "Zelda," while Huck Finn has been released under alternate/abbreviated titles.
Please elaborate. Has The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn been released in an English-language edition with any alternate title? In Google Books, the only book with the title Huck Finn that I could find is this one, a set of essays.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Magna »

Mathew5000 wrote:
alamble wrote:Plus, the game itself has never been officially released as just "Zelda," while Huck Finn has been released under alternate/abbreviated titles.
Please elaborate. Has The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn been released in an English-language edition with any alternate title? In Google Books, the only book with the title Huck Finn that I could find is this one, a set of essays.
Yes, several editions of Huckleberry Finn (no The Adventures of) have been released:
http://www.amazon.com/Huckleberry-Finn- ... 97&sr=1-15
http://www.amazon.com/Huckleberry-Finn- ... 465&sr=1-1

(There are also several intentionally-abridged editions that go by the title of simply Huckleberry Finn.)
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey »

Here's an edition from 1965 in the Library of Congress that seems to have used just the boy's name as the "Main title." But it's not common. More frequent is one I don't remember hearing before, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (Tom Sawyer's Companion).

LC control no.: 65011922
LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/65011922
Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
Personal name: Twain, Mark, 1835-1910.
Uniform title: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Main title: Huckleberry Finn,
Published/Created: Racine, Wis., Whitman Pub. Co. [1965]
Description: 254 p. col. illus. 22 cm.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

davey wrote:Here's an edition from 1965 in the Library of Congress that seems to have used just the boy's name as the "Main title." But it's not common. More frequent is one I don't remember hearing before, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (Tom Sawyer's Companion).
I know what I'm saying if I'm on the show and that book comes up.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Magna »

Bamaman wrote:
davey wrote:Here's an edition from 1965 in the Library of Congress that seems to have used just the boy's name as the "Main title." But it's not common. More frequent is one I don't remember hearing before, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (Tom Sawyer's Companion).
I know what I'm saying if I'm on the show and that book comes up.
I guess you could hedge your bets and say "What is The Complete Works of Mark Twain?"
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Zyzzyva »

I'm not suggesting that it's not the full title, or that the short answer was acceptable. My issue is that the express design of the clue was to trap people into saying just "Zelda," and the main reason it's going to work is because the full title is so infrequently used in actual conversation, and the publisher's practices serve to encourage use of the short form.

I just know that I would hate to lose on this type of FJ.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium »

Zyzzyva wrote:I'm not suggesting that it's not the full title, or that the short answer was acceptable. My issue is that the express design of the clue was to trap people into saying just "Zelda," and the main reason it's going to work is because the full title is so infrequently used in actual conversation, and the publisher's practices serve to encourage use of the short form.

I just know that I would hate to lose on this type of FJ.
express, adj.: definitely stated, not merely implied

Also, if Zelda by itself had been acceptable, they could have thrown away the category and the entire clue up to the last four words. Sometimes a meta approach to the clues can be helpful; recognizing that, if "Zelda" was all they needed, it would be a crappy FJ, might have helped.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

Zyzzyva wrote:I'm not suggesting that it's not the full title, or that the short answer was acceptable. My issue is that the express design of the clue was to trap people into saying just "Zelda," and the main reason it's going to work is because the full title is so infrequently used in actual conversation, and the publisher's practices serve to encourage use of the short form.

I just know that I would hate to lose on this type of FJ.
In conversation with fans. Waaaaaaaay back on usenet, when I frequented alt.fan.james-bond, it was common to refer to Bond films with 4-5 letter titles. FRWL. OHMSS. TWINE. Sure, we knew what we were talking about, but that doesn't make it the actual title.

So just because fans know the difference between TP and LttP doesn't make it Jeopardy acceptable. You look for the "this (part of speech)" and you give the full title. Sorry, no pity on this one from me.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Zyzzyva »

Again, I'm not saying anything about the acceptability of the responses to the clue given. I am remarking that the clue writer, by including the obvious bit about Fitzgerald, should have expected that the most common incorrect response would be just "Zelda." And the primary reason someone would have knowledge of the game but not know the full proper title is because the shorthand is in such broad usage.

I guess this is more about my feelings about what sorts of knowledge the writers are trying to test. This particular clue could have been inverted to ask for "Who is F. Scott Fitzgerald?" instead, or perhaps changed to rely on slightly less blatant tease-out and figure out which video game they were asking about, rather than making it obvious which game it was but testing knowledge of the full title.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey »

I wasn't aware of the game, and so I wrote down "What is Zelda?" because it was the part of the clue I did know. But I understood there had to be more to it, or the clue wasn't about the video game at all. Surely any player who did know "The Adventures of..." could figure that out too.
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by falcios »

Love the website.

For this response: a callomny is this correct or should it read calumny :?:
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Re: Friday, July 12, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vermonter »

Saw this over on the LearnedLeague boards. A mystery person sent a very-in-depth email to Kotaku about the "Zelda" response and why it was properly ruled to be incorrect: http://kotaku.com/kotaku-reader-sends-p ... 1734250545
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