Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Austin Powers
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:If the show wants to do that, they can seek out competent competition. Lot of these folks aren't very good. Arthur is clearly a dominant player, but there's also plenty of Lach trash still on the board, and these yo-yos aren't picking up any of it.

I don't feel sorry for people who get slaughtered. It's an act of ego to appear on Jeopardy. Either you want to make money, or be seen on TV, or you think you're smart and you want that validation. Or maybe you want to have some side career you want to promote.

So these folks aren't getting what they expected, but it's also not unfair what has happened to them.
It's interesting that Arthur, who isn't arrogant and abrasive, is seen that way by some. I wonder how you would come off. I suspect we'll never find out, and not for the reasons you think.
Oh, shove it. I suspect I've met and dealt with far, far more people from this board in the real world than you have. They've all been very nice, and I'd like to think I've been nice to them, too.

I thought you were smart enough to appreciate that there are real differences in how people appear online and how they might actually be.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Golf wrote:
zakharov wrote:I'm not saying you have to throw a pity party for the losers, but a lot of these people traveled a long way to fulfill what must be something of an ambition and ran into a buzzsaw. Spare a thought.
There was nothing wrong with what was said. Arthur's challengers aren't stupid, they aren't shooting themselves in the foot, they are simply getting beat, plain and simple.

They have been selected through an arduous process to fly to Hollywood, appear in front of millions of people, and get paid a minimum of $1k. Why should anybody feel sorry for them in the least?
There's a difference between the way you react and the way human beings do. I don't fault you for not understanding human emotion. But you should be aware that the phenomenon exists. That way you won't ask questions that can't really be answered within your frame of reference. And we won't irrationally decide to mail you a bag of dog poop. It's a win/win, really.
Really? We're going to feel sorry for each and every contestant who doesn't win? Seriously?

I've gotten beat in trivia events for scary sums of money, not once did I expect anybody to feel sorry for me. Why? Because I got beat fair and square. It happens. If I had wanted to win then perhaps I should have answered more questions correctly. Nobody to blame but myself.

There's a difference between the way you react and the way true competitors do. But I suppose I shouldn't fault you for not understanding this.
Last edited by Golf on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

zakharov wrote:Come on man, there are many, many smart people who

-have never been on TV before and perform oddly under the lights

-have buzzer problems and can't ring in

-get a board from hell

I'm not saying you have to throw a pity party for the losers, but a lot of these people traveled a long way to fulfill what must be something of an ambition and ran into a buzzsaw. Spare a thought.
It happens. If I ever appear on the show, it might happen to me. But then I read about the folks who practiced buzzing at home, who made flash cards, who kept up on current events, and so on. Okay, maybe these people have a lot of free time, but they made an effort and did well. Arthur is one of these people - one of this handful of people. How many contestants drop by, after the fact, and say things like, "wow, if I had only known about the archive!!!" Does Sofi from Monday's episode strike you as someone who really mined the archive to study, like Roger Craig did? Do you think she made flashcards about subjects she didn't know anything about, like Ken Jennings did?

These super successful people are such because they took aggressive steps to do well. You're less likely to have a bad day when that happens.

So, it's true, bummer for the folks who fly out there and watch things not pan out, but I strongly suspect that Arthur's opponents from this week, combined, put less effort into show prep than Arthur did. And what do you know? He's fabulously successful.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by flemmingfan »

Austin Powers wrote:
jwatcher16 wrote:Hi all -
I watched today's game and did not enjoy it at all. Most of you seem to be in Arthur's camp. Admittedly he's brilliant and plays the game brilliantly. I was rooting for him to be a 5-time champion, actually. But since then, I haven't really enjoyed watching the other players get slaughtered. That's what it's felt like the last few games, today's especially. There hasn't been much competition and - to me, anyway, it has taken away some of the enjoyment of watching.

I feel like I'd like to see someone else get a chance now.
If the show wants to do that, they can seek out competent competition. Lot of these folks aren't very good. Arthur is clearly a dominant player, but there's also plenty of Lach trash still on the board, and these yo-yos aren't picking up any of it.

I don't feel sorry for people who get slaughtered. It's an act of ego to appear on Jeopardy. Either you want to make money, or be seen on TV, or you think you're smart and you want that validation. Or maybe you want to have some side career you want to promote.

So these folks aren't getting what they expected, but it's also not unfair what has happened to them.
Likewise, Jwatcher. It's no fun. It's like watching a 19-0 baseball game. It isn't competitive and I don't think the fault is Arthur's or the other players. Mr. Chu is a good deserving player and his opponents are certainly worthy having gotten as far as they have but the game itself hasn't any suspense. A return to the five game limit would be welcome IMO.
An aside late comment I couldn't let pass- A.T."s thoughtless remark #? re Shirley Temple the other day, "Not even close" Boo!
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Austin Powers »

Golf wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
Golf wrote:
zakharov wrote:I'm not saying you have to throw a pity party for the losers, but a lot of these people traveled a long way to fulfill what must be something of an ambition and ran into a buzzsaw. Spare a thought.
There was nothing wrong with what was said. Arthur's challengers aren't stupid, they aren't shooting themselves in the foot, they are simply getting beat, plain and simple.

They have been selected through an arduous process to fly to Hollywood, appear in front of millions of people, and get paid a minimum of $1k. Why should anybody feel sorry for them in the least?
There's a difference between the way you react and the way human beings do. I don't fault you for not understanding human emotion. But you should be aware that the phenomenon exists. That way you won't ask questions that can't really be answered within your frame of reference. And we won't irrationally decide to mail you a bag of dog poop. It's a win/win, really.
Really? We're going to feel sorry for each and every contestant who doesn't win? Seriously?

I've gotten beat in trivia events for scary sums of money, not once did I expect anybody to feel sorry for me. Why? Because I got beat fair and square. It happens. If I had wanted to win then perhaps I should have answered more questions correctly. Nobody to blame but myself.

There's a difference between the way you react and the way true competitors do. But I suppose I shouldn't fault you for not understanding this.
I hate to say I agree with you, but... outside of the folks who got victimized by a bad decision, I don't really badly for anyone who lost on Jeopardy. At a minimum, these folks get an essentially free trip to LA and a good story.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Lefty »

dhkendall wrote: Einstein I believe it was famously said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
That quote seems to have originated in a Narcotics Anonymous pamphlet. It gets attributed to Einstein because neither Winston Churchill, Dorothy Parker, Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain or George Bernard Shaw wanted any part of it. And I don't blame them, because to me, that is a classic example of stupidity. Insanity might be doing the same thing over and over because it always fails.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator »

MarkBarrett wrote:Harry Dean Stanton had me laughing immediately as I had no doubt it would be a stand and stare.
It was probably the micro changes in air density.

And it's 'nitch'.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf »

Austin Powers wrote:I hate to say I agree with you, but... outside of the folks who got victimized by a bad decision, I don't really badly for anyone who lost on Jeopardy. At a minimum, these folks get an essentially free trip to LA and a good story.
Yeah, I just can't comprehend that attitude. It's competition, somebody has to win, somebody has to lose. This happens every day in all walks of life. All anybody can ever do is simply try their best, you do that and in some ways you've already won. However while many contestants certainly do try their best, they do not prepare their best.

Plus I have never been able to stand those who say somebody is too good and it's not fair. Reminds me of elementary school kids complaining at recess.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jwatcher16 »

lieph82 wrote:
jwatcher16 wrote:Hi all -
I watched today's game and did not enjoy it at all. Most of you seem to be in Arthur's camp. Admittedly he's brilliant and plays the game brilliantly. I was rooting for him to be a 5-time champion, actually. But since then, I haven't really enjoyed watching the other players get slaughtered. That's what it's felt like the last few games, today's especially. There hasn't been much competition and - to me, anyway, it has taken away some of the enjoyment of watching.

I feel like I'd like to see someone else get a chance now.
Did you hate watching Jennings, Madden, Pawson, etc., too, or is there something specific about Arthur?
Actually, I never saw Jennings, Madden, or Pawson - I'd stopped watching and picked up watching again maybe a year ago.

Do I think I would feel the same way about them. It's hard to say, but maybe. I still think I'd find it hard to watch the same person win night after night afte night after night...
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ArthurChu »

For the record, I did say "Houdini", with all three syllables. I said it fast, but I said it.

As far as feeling sorry for people who lose -- how can I not empathize with people who lose? For all we say that it's an honor to be on Jeopardy I did what I did to prepare for the show *because* I was terrified of experiencing exactly what happened to them -- showing up and being a one-and-done contestant without even one victory under my belt.

When I was perusing the various accounts of participating on Jeopardy online I found Jeanie Kunkel's account of being a lifelong Jeopardy fan and then finding herself a one-and-done when she got the chance. It was heartbreaking and gutwrenching and even though she obviously eventually recovered from the experience, hearing her say that she found it painful to even watch Jeopardy anymore really bugged me and kind of haunted me during the run-up to my games. I really, really, really didn't want to lose.

The really crappy thing about competition is that those who fear losing most can't escape it except by inflicting it on others. But that's life.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by lieph82 »

This guy worked harder than just about anyone else, and he's successful for it. Isn't that something that should make us feel good? Some of his competitors may be more likable, sure, but did most of them spend even a fraction of the time on the archive or studying strategy or working on index cards? I doubt it. To me, this is a feel-good story about the value of working hard at something...
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jwatcher16 »

flemmingfan wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:
jwatcher16 wrote:Hi all -
I watched today's game and did not enjoy it at all. Most of you seem to be in Arthur's camp. Admittedly he's brilliant and plays the game brilliantly. I was rooting for him to be a 5-time champion, actually. But since then, I haven't really enjoyed watching the other players get slaughtered. That's what it's felt like the last few games, today's especially. There hasn't been much competition and - to me, anyway, it has taken away some of the enjoyment of watching.

I feel like I'd like to see someone else get a chance now.
If the show wants to do that, they can seek out competent competition. Lot of these folks aren't very good. Arthur is clearly a dominant player, but there's also plenty of Lach trash still on the board, and these yo-yos aren't picking up any of it.

I don't feel sorry for people who get slaughtered. It's an act of ego to appear on Jeopardy. Either you want to make money, or be seen on TV, or you think you're smart and you want that validation. Or maybe you want to have some side career you want to promote.

So these folks aren't getting what they expected, but it's also not unfair what has happened to them.
Likewise, Jwatcher. It's no fun. It's like watching a 19-0 baseball game. It isn't competitive and I don't think the fault is Arthur's or the other players. Mr. Chu is a good deserving player and his opponents are certainly worthy having gotten as far as they have but the game itself hasn't any suspense. A return to the five game limit would be welcome IMO.
An aside late comment I couldn't let pass- A.T."s thoughtless remark #? re Shirley Temple the other day, "Not even close" Boo!
You said it well there! You get my point - it is like watching that 19 - 0 baseball game. I was also thinking along the lines of returning to limiting winners to a certain number of games. Maybe 5, maybe 7, maybe 10? Might be a good idea.

BTW, I see Arthur himself has posted here on another thread. He seems like a dude who really thinks things through.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Lefty »

econgator wrote: And it's 'nitch'.
Are we voting on "niche"? If so, it rhymes with quiche.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by zakharov »

This "niche" thing seems like it should be a poll to avoid derailing the thread.

My earlier comments should have been qualified the fact that I've been rooting for Arthur. It's fun watching a master at work, and I've got no problem with criticizing strategies of players who lose.

That said, you can prepare like crazy (or as much as your schedule allows, not everyone can be Bob Harris and structure their lives around a game show) and still lose. You can still lose in a way that makes you look like a dumbass on TV, even though you obviously aren't one by virtue of making it on the show. I think the effect of being on stage, under the lights, with the music blaring is being understated here. I appeared on an NPR game show for much lower stakes, and found myself feeling much dumber one I got up on the stage. If I ever get The Call, I am positive that given my areas of weakness I'm likely to make a wagering error that will have this board tearing their hair out. It happens.

Do you have to shed tears for all the losers? No. Like it's been said, they got a trip to LA and a great story for the rest of their lives. But try not to write them off as incompetent. Have a touch of empathy.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

Austin Powers wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:If the show wants to do that, they can seek out competent competition. Lot of these folks aren't very good. Arthur is clearly a dominant player, but there's also plenty of Lach trash still on the board, and these yo-yos aren't picking up any of it.

I don't feel sorry for people who get slaughtered. It's an act of ego to appear on Jeopardy. Either you want to make money, or be seen on TV, or you think you're smart and you want that validation. Or maybe you want to have some side career you want to promote.

So these folks aren't getting what they expected, but it's also not unfair what has happened to them.
It's interesting that Arthur, who isn't arrogant and abrasive, is seen that way by some. I wonder how you would come off. I suspect we'll never find out, and not for the reasons you think.
Oh, shove it. I suspect I've met and dealt with far, far more people from this board in the real world than you have. They've all been very nice, and I'd like to think I've been nice to them, too.

I thought you were smart enough to appreciate that there are real differences in how people appear online and how they might actually be.
I'm sure there are. I would enjoy meeting you. Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

Golf wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
Golf wrote:
zakharov wrote:I'm not saying you have to throw a pity party for the losers, but a lot of these people traveled a long way to fulfill what must be something of an ambition and ran into a buzzsaw. Spare a thought.
There was nothing wrong with what was said. Arthur's challengers aren't stupid, they aren't shooting themselves in the foot, they are simply getting beat, plain and simple.

They have been selected through an arduous process to fly to Hollywood, appear in front of millions of people, and get paid a minimum of $1k. Why should anybody feel sorry for them in the least?
There's a difference between the way you react and the way human beings do. I don't fault you for not understanding human emotion. But you should be aware that the phenomenon exists. That way you won't ask questions that can't really be answered within your frame of reference. And we won't irrationally decide to mail you a bag of dog poop. It's a win/win, really.
Really? We're going to feel sorry for each and every contestant who doesn't win? Seriously?

I've gotten beat in trivia events for scary sums of money, not once did I expect anybody to feel sorry for me. Why? Because I got beat fair and square. It happens. If I had wanted to win then perhaps I should have answered more questions correctly. Nobody to blame but myself.

There's a difference between the way you react and the way true competitors do. But I suppose I shouldn't fault you for not understanding this.
What's your address again?
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf »

opusthepenguin wrote:What's your address again?
They have it on file at http://www.bigbagoshit.com/frequent_customer
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by El Jefe »

I used to direct a Scrabble club here in Vermont and we would get quite a steady trickle of one-and-done folk, who after a few timed club games would become stubborn at the thought of someone else beating them with crazy-looking words (some of them 'naughty') and strategy. One thing I would advise newbies with was "I shouldn't be able to tell what the score is by looking at your face." It was also tough to disabuse them of the must-know-what-the-word-means rule they supposedly played with as kids

So long as that same standard is followed in the J! games, it is enjoyable to watch. I liked tonight's game for that reason- despite a huge disparity at the end 'the muggles' (thanks Rex) were both happy to be there and were mechanically competent (no pauses, apologies, or abandoned buzz-ins). It is not a zero-sum game and a foregone conclusion that a loss will not be enjoyable for the contestants. And how cool was it to see the States Things group come back into play?

And as much as seeing the buzzsaw in action is entertaining, I'm also excited at the prospect of someone better knocking him off (after tonight we should all wonder how that's even possible)

Yeah, weird reaction by Alex to the idea of studying- honestly, if folks don't Sporcle/flashcard/FactBook the crap out of their free time before their appearances, why are they there?
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

lieph82 wrote:This guy worked harder than just about anyone else, and he's successful for it. Isn't that something that should make us feel good? Some of his competitors may be more likable, sure, but did most of them spend even a fraction of the time on the archive or studying strategy or working on index cards? I doubt it. To me, this is a feel-good story about the value of working hard at something...
I think there have been a lot of responses here to something no one is saying. At least I don't think anyone here is saying it. Arthur earned his wins. We all agree on that. I think the majority of us, me included, like the guy. Maybe the detractors are more numerous than I understand and they're just staying quiet. That's fine with me. I've kept mum about more than one contestant on the "If you can't say something nice..." principle.

I'm not in the camp that finds the games boring because they are routs. I understand the sentiment, but there's just too much that's thrilling about Arthur's game play. It'll be a while before that gets old.

Most of all, I want to make this clear, even if it doesn't make sense to everyone. It is possible to cheer for Arthur and feel bad for those he defeats. Let me say that again, because I've seen many posts that treat those two things as an XOR. It is possible to cheer for Arthur and feel bad for those he defeats. I am in both those camps.

So, yeah, absolutely. This is a feel-good story. Spot on. And it does make me feel good, in a dazed and awed sort of way. But there's also the bittersweet aspect to the story of a Welsh-Canadian woman who tried for more than half Arthur's life to get on the show and brought a cheering section with her when she succeeded... only to hit FJ with a THIRD of Arthur's total. She says she had a really good time. I hope that's true. Some people can roll with the punches a lot better than I can. I'm more like the person Arthur mentioned who found it painful to even watch the show after losing.
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Re: Thursday, February 27, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ChemTeacher »

Austin Powers wrote:If I ever appear on the show, it might happen to me. But then I read about the folks who practiced buzzing at home, who made flash cards, who kept up on current events, and so on. Okay, maybe these people have a lot of free time, but they made an effort and did well. Arthur is one of these people - one of this handful of people. How many contestants drop by, after the fact, and say things like, "wow, if I had only known about the archive!!!" Does Sofi from Monday's episode strike you as someone who really mined the archive to study, like Roger Craig did? Do you think she made flashcards about subjects she didn't know anything about, like Ken Jennings did?

These super successful people are such because they took aggressive steps to do well. You're less likely to have a bad day when that happens.

So, it's true, bummer for the folks who fly out there and watch things not pan out, but I strongly suspect that Arthur's opponents from this week, combined, put less effort into show prep than Arthur did. And what do you know? He's fabulously successful.
I was a boardie before I got The Call. I searched through the Archive, made flashcards, and drilled myself on a wide variety of topics before my J! appearance. So I did my best to prepare and practice, and I think that my preparation really helped me. During the game, I just pretended that I was in my living room, ignoring the lights/cameras/audience to relax myself and focus on the clues and my buzzer timing.

And then I had the great fortune to play Colby Burnett...three times...oh well. No regrets, though. It was a good experience.
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