Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Bamaman
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

I also jumped the gun on Key West before I noticed it was a "major" city. But I took mainland to mean it wasn't Hawaii and wasn't excluding a Florida island.
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gnash
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash »

dhkendall wrote:
gnash wrote:
seaborgium wrote:http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2450
Stupid Answers, $1,000:
"Since 1970 the General Synod has governed this church of England"
Tom Morris: "What is the Anglican Church?"
It was accepted.
The word "church" was both in the clue and in the response.
Can you show me precedent for where a Stupid Answers response met the clue's parameters, but didn't have any of the words of the clue in it? If not then you're just either stating your opinion ("they shouldn't accept such responses") or forecasting they wouldn't, but you can't say for sure.
Your logic is backwards. So far, people have tried to come up with an accepted response that didn't repeat the words from the clue, and the best attempt was Sg's above, where the response has to be taken on a technicality analogous to how you don't have to say "What is 'Where's the beef?'" because "Where's the beef?" is already in the form of the question.

Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash »

seaborgium wrote:
gnash wrote:
seaborgium wrote:http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2450
Stupid Answers, $1,000:
"Since 1970 the General Synod has governed this church of England"
Tom Morris: "What is the Anglican Church?"
It was accepted.
The word "church" was both in the clue and in the response.
So are you saying "blackjack" would be unacceptable for the Stupid Answer being discussed, but "the game of blackjack" would be fine?
Good question - would that pass on a technicality? I can see that it could make a convincing appeal and that someone could be brought back if they lost because of that neg (and therefore, that the judges could foresee that and accept the response).
It's still not quite the same as the church example, as the word "Church" is part of the name either way, while "the game of" is just a redundant generic introduction. But yeah, the point of technicalities is that subtleties don't matter...
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator »

gnash wrote:It's still not quite the same as the church example, as the word "Church" is part of the name either way, while "the game of" is just a redundant generic introduction. But yeah, the point of technicalities is that subtleties don't matter...
Are you saying that if he had simply said, "What is Anglican?" that would have been negged? Can't see how.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
In the contestants' green room briefing the rules of the game are explained, as probably everyone here already knows. They point out that anything in quotes in a category name must show up in the answer. They don't say a word about specific requirements if the category "Stupid Answers" comes up and that tells me that they would accept an answer that does not repeat a word from the clue. I really don't see how they could not unless the contestants were expressly told about that requirement prior to game play.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
Burden of proof arguments are always a hoot. Yes, you don't need to provide an example in order to continue believing you are correct. If you want me to believe it, an example would help your case considerably. Absent that example, I'm persuaded by the logic of those who disagree with you.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Magna »

This Is Kirk! wrote:They don't say a word about specific requirements if the category "Stupid Answers" comes up and that tells me that they would accept an answer that does not repeat a word from the clue.
I just thought the category was answers that they gave you a huge hint about, and that were therefore deceptively obvious.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example.
21 June 2000: STUPID ANSWERS $300

IT'S THE NAME GIVEN THE NEARLY 1-WEEK-LONG MILITARY CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL & SEVERAL ARAB NEIGHBORS IN 1967
Spoiler
What is The Nearly 1-Week Long War?
I suspect the contestant with the correct response did repeat the word "the," which is totally in the clue. Twice. The archive record doesn't include an article, but I'm willing to concede the point. Should I keep looking?
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

22 November 2000: STUPID ANSWERS $100

NUMBER OF LETTERS ON YOUR STANDARD 8-SIDED STOP SIGN
Spoiler
What is 4?
That one's pretty hard to argue with.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Magna »

23 October 2002: STUPID ANSWERS $600

If you split 12 eggs into 2 equal groups, you'll have a total of this many eggs
Spoiler
What is 12?
This one does include the answer in the clue, but the point of the clue is to trick you about what is being asked.

17 April 2006: STUPID ANSWERS $1000

The American poet Hilda Doolittle used this 2-letter pen name
Spoiler
What is H.D?
Basically, just asking what Hilda Doolittle's initials were.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash »

Opus, your examples are convincing.

They also show that the writing standard for that category has pretty clearly changed since 2000, but that is irrelevant for the discussion.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
In the contestants' green room briefing the rules of the game are explained, as probably everyone here already knows. They point out that anything in quotes in a category name must show up in the answer. They don't say a word about specific requirements if the category "Stupid Answers" comes up and that tells me that they would accept an answer that does not repeat a word from the clue. I really don't see how they could not unless the contestants were expressly told about that requirement prior to game play.
After 6 years, I don't remember what they told us in the Green Room. Pretty sure Stupid Answers was mentioned as an exception to the principle that the correct response was not contained in the clue. They may or may not have said it was required - and any such instructions may have changed since.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

Magna wrote:I just thought the category was answers that they gave you a huge hint about, and that were therefore deceptively obvious.
So did I until this thread!
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by nightreign »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Magna wrote:I just thought the category was answers that they gave you a huge hint about, and that were therefore deceptively obvious.
So did I until this thread!
As did I. I often overthink those (or perhaps underthink).
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall »

opusthepenguin wrote:
gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example.
21 June 2000: STUPID ANSWERS $300

IT'S THE NAME GIVEN THE NEARLY 1-WEEK-LONG MILITARY CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL & SEVERAL ARAB NEIGHBORS IN 1967
Spoiler
What is The Nearly 1-Week Long War?
I suspect the contestant with the correct response did repeat the word "the," which is totally in the clue. Twice. The archive record doesn't include an article, but I'm willing to concede the point. Should I keep looking?
opusthepenguin wrote:22 November 2000: STUPID ANSWERS $100

NUMBER OF LETTERS ON YOUR STANDARD 8-SIDED STOP SIGN
Spoiler
What is 4?
That one's pretty hard to argue with.
gnash wrote:Opus, your examples are convincing.
And was exactly what I was looking for. I'm glad someone with more free time than me did that.
opusthepenguin wrote:
gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
Burden of proof arguments are always a hoot. Yes, you don't need to provide an example in order to continue believing you are correct. If you want me to believe it, an example would help your case considerably. Absent that example, I'm persuaded by the logic of those who disagree with you.
Check that, you are not only a penguin with more free time than I have, but also one who could say what I wanted to say a hell of a lot better. Maybe I should just hand over the keys of my account to you so you can post as me and I can appear to be brighter. :)
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by sarah0114 »

When I went to my last audition, the Stupid Answers category came up in the practice game. There was a clue where you had to identify the Albert Camus novel about the plague that occurred in suchandsuchplace. I rang in and said, "La Peste" because I was only familiar with the book from the context of my French classes and couldn't think of the English title. Maggie ruled it wrong and I responded, "Hey, that's the French title! Alex would have accepted it." This makes me wonder how the heck I got on the show if you're supposed to demonstrate in the audition that

a) you understand how the show works (and by extension understand how categories like Stupid Answers work) and
b) you're TV-ready and not going to be a crazy person interrupting the game to dispute a call.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash »

dhkendall wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
gnash wrote:Given what I said - that no contestant should expect to be given credit for responding to a Stupid Answer without repeating a word from the clue - you can only prove me wrong by finding a counter-example. A lack of examples clearly supporting my point would in no way invalidate it, so there is no point in me looking for such examples.
Burden of proof arguments are always a hoot. Yes, you don't need to provide an example in order to continue believing you are correct. If you want me to believe it, an example would help your case considerably. Absent that example, I'm persuaded by the logic of those who disagree with you.
Check that, you are not only a penguin with more free time than I have, but also one who could say what I wanted to say a hell of a lot better. Maybe I should just hand over the keys of my account to you so you can post as me and I can appear to be brighter. :)
Not a good idea in this case. The fact that opus proved my assertion wrong via a different argument (using a valid counter-example) does not make this particular argument correct.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vanya »

opusthepenguin wrote:22 November 2000: STUPID ANSWERS $100

NUMBER OF LETTERS ON YOUR STANDARD 8-SIDED STOP SIGN
Spoiler
What is 4?
That one's pretty hard to argue with.
It's not hard to argue with gnash.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Rex Kramer »

TenPoundHammer wrote:Seriously, what led to Chinese on Stop for $400? Unless you know precisely what Chinese sounds like, that just as easily could've been Japanese, Korean.
Again, what's with the weird expectation that you wouldn't be expected to know things on a quiz show? Chinese is a tonal language, and Korean and Japanese are not, so the latter two sound very different from Chinese.

Rex
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Rex Kramer »

skullturf wrote:I believe Korean isn't a tone language either, but I confess that I probably wouldn't be able to tell Korean from other languages based on the sound. (Very rarely have I ever heard Korean being spoken at all.)
I understand Japanese and to me Korean sounds very similar in the rhythm and syllables. If I didn't know Japanese I probably wouldn't be able to tell the two languages apart.

But neither sounds like Chinese.

Rex
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