2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

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hbomb1947
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

Leander wrote:
hbomb1947 wrote:
Volante wrote:
boson wrote:
gobobbygo wrote:I'd argue R4D6 4-pointer could have been more. Normally I see 5-4-3 and I think "double play", not triple. I heard about the Yankees' one the other day, but had I not...
Was the intended answer triple play? I was quite happy with my answer of double play until just now.
The correct answer is double play: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... mode=plays ; top of 7th.

I thought double play would have been too pedestrian an answer for something so detailed. There really was no way to distinguish from facts alone. And inferring from the play, a 6-4-3 would have been a better 'double play' play. 5 (third) could have fielded a grounder near the base. 6 (short) wouldn't be able to force out anyone at base. (Also, short catching a liner then getting runners on 2nd and 1st before they tag up is "possible" but I would've seen that on Deadspin under a highlight reel tag :D )



(6-4-3 is also Tinker to Evers to Chance)
If the intended answer was double play, then I think the clue was very neg-bait-y. I too thought a mere double-play would be too basic. Double plays are a dime a dozen, and the mere fact that it was deemed noteworthy enough to be mentioned in the clue suggested to me something rarer. Leaving that aside, what was there to choose between double play and triple play, on some random play in some random game that was meaningless to anyone reading the clue?
Looking at the intro to the clue set, double time is far more common an expression than triple time.

Personally, I was fairly sure there had not been a triple play in the majors in the last couple of days.
Only one of the words in the correct response had to go with "time," and "play time" is absolutely a word (or phrase):

https://www.google.com/search?q=play+ti ... 3&ie=UTF-8

And it works equally well with double play or triple play. And it seems a bit much to expect SHC participants to have been monitoring all the box scores on a daily basis so as to know for sure whether there's been a triple play recently in a game involving two teams that don't get a lot of national media attention. (and if it wasn't an unassisted triple play, it still wouldn't have been super-newsworthy).

ETA: I had originally read the explanation of the category to mean that all responses had to have a word that paired with "time," not that both words in each response needed to. I do better understand the category now. I also assume that my responses of "Boston tea party" and "showcase showdown" will still be marked correct? Anyway, "triple time" is still definitely a thing:

https://www.google.com/search?q=play+ti ... le+time%22

So, since "triple play" works for the concept of the category, and given the obscurity of the event that the clue is pinned to, I respectfully request that those of us who answered "triple play" be given credit for that response.
Last edited by hbomb1947 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:14 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Volante »

Leander wrote: Looking at the intro to the clue set, double time is far more common an expression than triple time.

Personally, I was fairly sure there had not been a triple play in the majors in the last couple of days.
Assuming an SHC response is the correct one because it's "more common" is something I stopped doing years ago.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Leander »

Only one of the words in the correct response had to go with "time," and "play time" is absolutely a word (or phrase):
Suggest you take another look at the intro, and note the use of the word "all".
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Magna »

I'm not sure the R4D5 10-pointer had a correct answer. It looks like most people are answering "showdown," and maybe that's the intended answer. But I see the game is actually called the Showcase Showdown, not just Showdown. The "Showcase" part of it doesn't work as a phrase with "time". Or, if you break each of the two words into parts, then "case" doesn't work, as far as I can tell.
http://priceisright.wikia.com/wiki/Showcase_Showdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Price_ ... e_Showdown

So I don't think there was a correct answer to this one, and I request a RQ.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

Leander wrote:
Only one of the words in the correct response had to go with "time," and "play time" is absolutely a word (or phrase):
Suggest you take another look at the intro, and note the use of the word "all".
Please read the rest of my post.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by OrangeSAM »

Volante wrote:
boson wrote:
gobobbygo wrote:I'd argue R4D6 4-pointer could have been more. Normally I see 5-4-3 and I think "double play", not triple. I heard about the Yankees' one the other day, but had I not...
Was the intended answer triple play? I was quite happy with my answer of double play until just now.
The correct answer is double play: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... mode=plays ; top of 7th.

I thought double play would have been too pedestrian an answer for something so detailed. There really was no way to distinguish from facts alone. And inferring from the play, a 6-4-3 would have been a better 'double play' play. 5 (third) could have fielded a grounder near the base. 6 (short) wouldn't be able to force out anyone at base. (Also, short catching a liner then getting runners on 2nd and 1st before they tag up is "possible" but I would've seen that on Deadspin under a highlight reel tag :D )

(6-4-3 is also Tinker to Evers to Chance)
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by goforthetie »

This is silly. Triple play is factually incorrect and should be negged. It's an obscure play, yes, but trivia questions ask you to make not-100%-certain deductions from obscure facts all the time, and you have to weigh your confidence levels appropriately. Given that there are only about 5 triple plays for all of MLB in an entire season*, the odds that this play, happening two days before the clue went up, would refer to a TP, not a DP, were quite long. You chose to buck those odds, or were ignorant of them, and you lost.

*: http://tripleplays.sabr.org/tp_year.htm
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

goforthetie wrote:This is silly. Triple play is factually incorrect and should be negged. It's an obscure play, yes, but trivia questions ask you to make not-100%-certain deductions from obscure facts all the time, and you have to weigh your confidence levels appropriately. Given that there are only about 5 triple plays for all of MLB in an entire season*, the odds that this play, happening two days before the clue went up, would refer to a TP, not a DP, were quite long. You chose to buck those odds, or were ignorant of them, and you lost.

*: http://tripleplays.sabr.org/tp_year.htm
Respectfully, a 4-point clue should not have been pinned to an event that required the type of blind guessing that this one did, when the probabilities were far from clear given the obscurity of the game that was identified. Indeed, the rarity of triple plays made it seem more likely to some of us that that's what was being asked for, since triple plays are more noteworthy. It's the idea that "hey, maybe he's asking about this random game between two random teams because there was a triple play in it."
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by cinemaniax7 »

I figured that if the lowly Padres had turned a triple play in the past week, I probably would have heard about it on SportsCenter. Besides, "double time" is far more common a phrase than "triple time." So I played it safe and guessed "double play."
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by seaborgium »

I have never actually heard the phrase "triple time," and only can believe it's real by extrapolating from "double time." And I could easily imagine the notation in the clue referring to a double play.

And if you have a complaint about the game in the 10-pointer being called "Showcase Showdown," where's your gripe about the event in the 2-pointer being called "Boston Tea Party"?
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by dhkendall »

Perhaps I missed it in the comments about the double play clue, but what happened "on August 26 when Milwaukee Brewer Khris Davis hit a ground ball to San Diego Padre Yangervis Solarte", a double play or a triple play? Whichever it was, the other should be negged due to the mention in the clue.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by goforthetie »

It's not blind guessing; I've already told you the odds of a random 5-4-3 being a TP. Say the category is "Three-letter words" and the clue was "This three-letter word is the last three letters of the last names of every city councilman in Plock, Poland." Would you argue that it would be a blind guess to answer "ski", and that maybe the question writer was going for "son" since it's more notable (but not impossible) to find people with such a name in Poland?

Now, you mention trying to figure out why the question writer would ask about this particular play. I would argue it cuts more in the other direction - if the intent were 'triple play', there would have to be a very specific hint in the question text itself that something out of the ordinary happened, otherwise nobody could reasonably distinguish it from the much more common double play, which is a completely plausible intended answer in any category that isn't "Non-routine Baseball Plays". In any case, this sort of meta-analysis is fraught with assumptions about the thinking of the writer, which you happened to make incorrectly, but that's not Paucle's fault, as no such assumptions were necessary to answer the question.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by billy pilgrim »

I said triple play. it seems the key is the initial ground ball. pretty7 hard to turn the triple unless the beginning is a liner caught by an infielder.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Paucle »

goforthetie wrote:but that's not Paucle's fault,
I'm sure most of you realize these categories are offered weeks in advance (and I'm not prescient).

I can't find my original mailings to DoT, but my Q was much shorter, I think only referring to the scorecard notation mostly. I wasn't sure why he added the IRL event until I saw someone had guessed triple play and I realized a-ha! My notation could indeed be both a TP and a DP. By including an actual MLB play, he pinned it to the DP.
I think gftt has adequately explained anything else I felt needed mentioning.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Woof »

billy pilgrim wrote:I said triple play. it seems the key is the initial ground ball. pretty7 hard to turn the triple unless the beginning is a liner caught by an infielder.
A hard-hit ground ball to a third baseman playing close to the bag is a fairly common way (insofar as any are common) to start a triple play. It requires a fairly slow baserunner at the plate, but every team has a catcher :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by billy pilgrim »

Woof wrote:
billy pilgrim wrote:I said triple play. it seems the key is the initial ground ball. pretty7 hard to turn the triple unless the beginning is a liner caught by an infielder.
A hard-hit ground ball to a third baseman playing close to the bag is a fairly common way (insofar as any are common) to start a triple play. It requires a fairly slow baserunner at the plate, but every team has a catcher :mrgreen:
then it wouldn't be 5-4-3 though.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by dhkendall »

Woof wrote:every team has a catcher
I dunno, I've seen Oakland play ... :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Woof »

billy pilgrim wrote:
Woof wrote:
billy pilgrim wrote:I said triple play. it seems the key is the initial ground ball. pretty7 hard to turn the triple unless the beginning is a liner caught by an infielder.
A hard-hit ground ball to a third baseman playing close to the bag is a fairly common way (insofar as any are common) to start a triple play. It requires a fairly slow baserunner at the plate, but every team has a catcher :mrgreen:
then it wouldn't be 5-4-3 though.
How so? With men on 1st and 2nd, third baseman steps on the bag to force out the runner at 2nd, throws to 2nd to force the runner from 1st and a good turn at 2nd gets the batter at 1st. 5-4-3 triple play.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Volante »

goforthetie wrote:It's not blind guessing; I've already told you the odds of a random 5-4-3 being a TP. Say the category is "Three-letter words" and the clue was "This three-letter word is the last three letters of the last names of every city councilman in Plock, Poland." Would you argue that it would be a blind guess to answer "ski", and that maybe the question writer was going for "son" since it's more notable (but not impossible) to find people with such a name in Poland?

Now, you mention trying to figure out why the question writer would ask about this particular play. I would argue it cuts more in the other direction - if the intent were 'triple play', there would have to be a very specific hint in the question text itself that something out of the ordinary happened, otherwise nobody could reasonably distinguish it from the much more common double play, which is a completely plausible intended answer in any category that isn't "Non-routine Baseball Plays". In any case, this sort of meta-analysis is fraught with assumptions about the thinking of the writer, which you happened to make incorrectly, but that's not Paucle's fault, as no such assumptions were necessary to answer the question.
Would J! ask a question about a play in baseball using the scorecard notation and the players involved if it -wasn't- out of the ordinary?

The fact so many details are included on a purely infield play screams "there's something special about this play." Like you said, double plays are common. No one remembers who does those (except in poetry or if they're crazy).

A better double play example with details would've been a 9-5, like this: http://nesn.com/2014/07/yasiel-puig-mak ... lay-video/
Out of the ordinary, so details imply it's special and there's no way that could be a triple play with remotely competent base runners (and since neither the Cubs nor the Mets are in that game...).
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by DadofTwins »

Upon further review:

I'm inclined to accept "triple play" in addition to the intended "double play" for two reasons. One, in my attempt to pin the response to "double play" by citing a specific play, I assumed that since double plays are phenomenally more common than triple plays that would lead to less confusion. Instead, it led to more.

Furthermore, when the current San Diego third baseman was a Yankee earlier this year, he was actually on the front end of a 5-4-3 triple play in a game against Tampa Bay.

So even though "double play" is precisely pinned, I think fairness requires me to accept "triple play" as well.

ETA: The embellishment on this clue was mine, as part of the editing process. I sometimes do that with guest-written clues. In this case, Paucle provided a workable response and a clue that was short enough that I could add in some TOM to make the clue valuation order work.
Last edited by DadofTwins on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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