TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

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Tigershark
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by Tigershark »

RandyG wrote:This is just a general observation of the recent trend in TDs to always require the letter of the choice.
I specifically wrote this rule into my TD because of one specific question where it would have been very easy to come up with the right answer for the wrong reason. It was a question about Disney stage shows based on movies that had songs added for the stage version. Since there have been so few of them, without the identifying letter the question would have turned into "Name a Disney Stage Show," which was NOT my intent. The day before I posted the questions, I decided to take that specific question out of quiz, but I still kept the rule for all of the other questions. I did get a couple of entries were someone forgot an identifying letter, and I had to mark them wrong. I felt bad about it, especially since some of incorrect answers had massive penalties, but it was in the rules. I didn't find it that much more difficult to score the quizzes because of that rule. Although, if someone had typed the wrong letter, but included the correct identifier, for example had wrong letter but said Iowa- Music Man, I would have credited them with a correct answer.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by Turd Ferguson »

goforthetie wrote:
Turd Ferguson wrote:
eboettch wrote:Incorrect responses
Peggles - A. I Will Akways Love You
Ouch, seems a bit harsh.

Even though this was "my" era, the only ones I knew were the Snow, UB40, Mariah, and Meatloaf songs. That era was all about grunge-y music for me, though, I'm surprised how non-grunge-y the #1 songs of the year were.
I agree that it's harsh, but to be fair, the quizmaster did explicitly state that he would be strict in the rules post.
Oh, I just did not read that rule. I understand that it's coming from the show, but there also generally isn't the possibility of an obvious typo causing someone to give the wrong answer on the show.

If I had read the rule, I might have given a different answer, as I wasn't sure about the exact title of the Meatloaf song. Looking at my answer, I think that the rule might dictate that my response is actually wrong, rather than a singleton (is there a J! rule for contractions in titles?):

7. I. I Would Do Anything for Love (But I won't do that)
goforthetie wrote: Did any grunge songs make it far on the pop charts? I don't remember many grunge bands crossing over very much. Maybe something like Pearl Jam's Daughter, but that would be about it, I would think. I only knew Snow, UB40 and the song from Aladdin, myself.
It seems that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit the top 10 but yeah, that was about it for those bands (not counting "Last Kiss" for obvious reasons)
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by goforthetie »

RandyG wrote:This is just a general observation of the recent trend in TDs to always require the letter of the choice.
I do that for 3 out of the 4 questions where I could have done so, but I have my reasons. For folks that forget to specify a letter, I just PM them back and give them a chance to amend.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by Peggles »

Just a quick question - was I negged for not including the letter of the answer (I thought I had) or for the obvious typo?
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by JeopardyMom »

periwinkle wrote:Wow, my choice of Whole New World over my other option, I Will Always Love You, was a 10-point swing! Oy. And the difference between 1st and 3rd place right now (though, as I've never been this high in a TD before, I'm not complaining).
Right there with you. Happy to be doing as well as I am, but watching my score drop as I sheep my way through these last few questions.
I was sure that "I Will Always Love You" would be sheepier than a song from Aladdin! :?
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

Peggles wrote:Just a quick question - was I negged for not including the letter of the answer (I thought I had) or for the obvious typo?
The typo. You included the letter, which is reflected in the reveal.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

Turd Ferguson wrote: If I had read the rule, I might have given a different answer, as I wasn't sure about the exact title of the Meatloaf song. Looking at my answer, I think that the rule might dictate that my response is actually wrong, rather than a singleton (is there a J! rule for contractions in titles?):

7. I. I Would Do Anything for Love (But I won't do that)
Given that Jeopardy! allows you to add suffixes and prefixes to songs given that they are lyrically correct, in the rare instance that you can add an infix to a song title and have it be lyrically correct (so, basically only this one?) I think that would still apply, which is why I gave you credit. There's no evidence for this particular song in the archive, though.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by ElendilPickle »

doihavetoreally wrote:I only had flockart and Bateman for this Q. Felt accomplished when I put Bateman as my response. I am doing great overall though.

A Q : what bothers you most? An incorrect response or a Sheep response?
The sheep, since it usually adds a boatload of points to my total.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by tjconn728 »

Tigershark wrote:
RandyG wrote:This is just a general observation of the recent trend in TDs to always require the letter of the choice.
I specifically wrote this rule into my TD because of one specific question where it would have been very easy to come up with the right answer for the wrong reason. It was a question about Disney stage shows based on movies that had songs added for the stage version. Since there have been so few of them, without the identifying letter the question would have turned into "Name a Disney Stage Show," which was NOT my intent. The day before I posted the questions, I decided to take that specific question out of quiz, but I still kept the rule for all of the other questions. I did get a couple of entries were someone forgot an identifying letter, and I had to mark them wrong. I felt bad about it, especially since some of incorrect answers had massive penalties, but it was in the rules. I didn't find it that much more difficult to score the quizzes because of that rule. Although, if someone had typed the wrong letter, but included the correct identifier, for example had wrong letter but said Iowa- Music Man, I would have credited them with a correct answer.
I required a letter on my all questions for both of my last two TDs (where all questions involved matching) because each had a few questions where I thought it would be possible to get a correct answer by incorrectly identifying the wrong item. It seemed easier and more consistent to require a letter for all questions, and I underestimated the number of times this would be a problem. There were some obvious typos (such as someone identifying Ted Stevens International Airport being in Tehran), some where it may have been a wrong identification of another item (identifying a constellation as Leo instead of Draco), and some where no letter was given at all. Like tigershark, I felt bad about marking them wrong, but this seemed to be the most fair and consistent way to treat these items. And in tigershark's game, I was actually one of the people that somehow didn't include a letter in one of my responses. It was a silly mistake, and I was annoyed at myself for it, but it was clearly in the rules and I should have done a better job of proofreading. Of course, I was near the bottom of the standings anyway so it didn't make much difference.

Even though it's in the rules, I think the spelling grading is a bit harsh in this one. I interpreted the rule more to be more to ensure that people have to really know the name of the response (I almost went with Alia Shawrkat, but decided against it since I wasn't really sure what her last name was) than to punish people for an errant key or autocorrect.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by Turd Ferguson »

eboettch wrote:
Turd Ferguson wrote: If I had read the rule, I might have given a different answer, as I wasn't sure about the exact title of the Meatloaf song. Looking at my answer, I think that the rule might dictate that my response is actually wrong, rather than a singleton (is there a J! rule for contractions in titles?):

7. I. I Would Do Anything for Love (But I won't do that)
Given that Jeopardy! allows you to add suffixes and prefixes to songs given that they are lyrically correct, in the rare instance that you can add an infix to a song title and have it be lyrically correct (so, basically only this one?) I think that would still apply, which is why I gave you credit. There's no evidence for this particular song in the archive, though.
Okay, thanks. Now if only the judges at a music trivia thing I was at from a few weeks ago thought the same. I really did think this song http://www.metrolyrics.com/fly-at-night ... iwack.html was called "Fly By Night", like the Rush song, since that lyric is actually in the chorus several times

(I was also negged once for identifying the Paul McCartney song as "Baby I'm Amazed"... I just need to pay more attention, I guess)
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by BobF »

RandyG wrote:
Turd Ferguson wrote:
eboettch wrote:Incorrect responses
Peggles - A. I Will Akways Love You
Ouch, seems a bit harsh.
Agreed.

Also..... I know that the rules were set, but on a question like this, where it's virtually impossible for a player to come up with a correct answer for the wrong reason -- i.e. thinking that the answer submitted pertained to a different choice, yet still getting credit -- it seems to be only extra work for both the host and the players to have to include the letter of the choice, which then might introduce unnecessary errors either of omission or of miscalculation, which did happen on this question.

This is just a general observation of the recent trend in TDs to always require the letter of the choice.
Had it happened on the Jeopardy! online test, I'm sure she would have been marked as correct.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

Thank you for all your feedback, and especially for expressing it in a respectful manner. Thanks also for your patience while I weigh your concerns.

The original ruling on "I Will Akways Love You" was made out of a desire for consistency - it is much easier for me to give the same treatment to all players if the rules have no wiggle room. Grading on a "I know what you meant" basis scares me because I cannot read your mind, so I grade on what you express in your entries. Hence rule #10, above, which, though it doesn't say this outright, makes it clear that the test is an answer's being aurally sound, not intent. I feel that since I messaged people their answers and allowed for revisions, they could catch and fix their own mistakes.

However, I'm going to go ahead and mark this as correct. I can justify doing this for the following reasons:
a) "k" and "l" are next to each other on a standard keyboard, making it plausible that this is a typo.
b) "Akways" is not a real word, making it plausible that this is a typo.

I will look at the grading for future questions in this light. For past incorrect answers, I do not believe these reasons apply (and reason b is moot when it comes to people's names, as there's not an ironclad definition of a "real name".)

Again, thanks for your patience. I know this change might upset some people, and I'm sorry about that. However, it will stay final.

The penalty for missing an identifying letter will remain the same, though in hindsight I should have BMS'ed people on those, and I'll keep that in mind for if I ever host again.

Now. I'll post the revised standings (should just be Peggles and Tpmorrison affected), and then we'll be off to something less serious, like destructive hurricanes.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

Revised standings after Q7:

1. Peggles — 17 pts
2. goforthetie — 25 pts
3. Rackme32 — 30 pts
4. periwinkle — 32 pts
5. RandyG — 33 pts
6. jgamer — 34 pts
7. nserven — 35 pts
8. barandall800 — 36 pts
9. Tigershark — 41 pts
9. Vanya — 41 pts
9. Turd Ferguson — 41 pts
12. Tpmorrison — 42 pts
13. jjwaymee — 43 pts
14. brainpower — 44 pts
14. econgator — 44 pts
14. SavoyGirl — 44 pts
17. JeopardyMom — 46 pts
17. Magna — 46 pts
17. Peachbox — 46 pts
17. Ryno — 46 pts
17. Abraxas — 46 pts
17. debramc — 46 pts
23. Blue Lion — 48 pts
24. dott888 — 49 pts
24. ihavejeoprosy — 49 pts
24. ElendilPickle — 49 pts
24. sethmoko — 49 pts
28. Caboom — 50 pts
29. whatisbishkek — 51 pts
29. Creed Bratton — 51 pts
29. sarah0114 — 51 pts
29. BobF — 51 pts
33. immaf — 52 pts
34. dnbguy — 54 pts
34. mitchparov — 54 pts
36. Gamawire — 55 pts
36. Sherm — 55 pts
38. Vermonter — 56 pts
39. CheezeWhiz — 58 pts
40. tjconn728 — 59 pts
41. clprez — 60 pts
42. Bamaman — 62 pts
43. psgola — 64 pts
43. waterloo_guy — 64 pts
43. Shaymin — 64 pts
46. spell4yr — 65 pts
47. Woppy T — 70 pts
48. MarkBarrett — 71 pts
48. doihavetoreally — 71 pts
50. lpmastor — 91 pts
Last edited by eboettch on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

8. CELIA is a character in As You Like It. CELIA is also a name given by the National Hurricane Center to Atlantic hurricanes that has since been retired. Name a hurricane name given by the NHC to Atlantic hurricanes that was retired in 2006 or later. (16 possible answers)

This was probably the hardest question to draft for me. I originally came up with "Name a hurricane name that starts with C," but I'm pretty sure that would have resulted in an aggressively bimodal distribution of answers, so I fudged the connection between the character and question. (Hurricane Celia hit in 1970 and the name was retired in 1971, so it doesn't quite fit in with the others.) Even then, I realized that there were a ton of responses and it was likely that not all would be used (more than half were unclaimed). Then there was the issue of clarifying how and when hurricane names get retired, and also one of my non-boardie beta testers didn't know what it mean to retire a hurricane name... So this nearly got thrown out a number of times. I'm wondering if that has something to do with the number of helps used (the highest for any question). Then again, that may just have been trying to avoid a fairly predictable sheep.

KATRINA – 9 responses
Bamaman
barandall800
brainpower
clprez
doihavetoreally
ElendilPickle
SavoyGirl
sethmoko
Tpmorrison

IRENE – 8 responses
dnbguy
goforthetie
immaf
jgamer
nserven
Vermonter
whatisbishkek
Woppy T

IKE – 6 responses
Abraxas
CheezeWhiz
Magna
Peggles
Rackme32
tjconn728

SANDY – 6 responses
Blue Lion
BobF
Creed Bratton
lpmastor
periwinkle
Sherm

RITA – 3 responses
debramc
econgator
Peachbox

WILMA – 3 responses
RandyG
Shaymin
spell4yr

STAN – Singleton!
Tigershark

DROP – 0 points
Caboom
dott888
Gamawire
ihavejeoprosy
JeopardyMom
jjwaymee
mitchparov
psgola
Ryno
sarah0114
Turd Ferguson
Vanya
waterloo_guy

SHEEP – 9 points
MarkBarrett

Incorrect responses - 18 points
None!

Unused responses
Dennis (retired in 2006)
Dean, Felix, Noel (retired in 2008)
Gustav, Paloma (retired in 2009)
Igor, Tomas (retired in 2011)
Ingrid (retired in 2014)
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

Standings after Q8:

1. Peggles — 23 pts
2. goforthetie — 33 pts
3. Rackme32 — 36 pts
3. RandyG — 36 pts
5. periwinkle — 38 pts
6. Turd Ferguson — 41 pts
6. Vanya — 41 pts
8. jgamer — 42 pts
8. Tigershark — 42 pts
10. nserven — 43 pts
10. jjwaymee — 43 pts
12. barandall800 — 45 pts
13. JeopardyMom — 46 pts
13. Ryno — 46 pts
15. econgator — 47 pts
16. debramc — 49 pts
16. Peachbox — 49 pts
16. dott888 — 49 pts
16. ihavejeoprosy — 49 pts
20. Caboom — 50 pts
21. Tpmorrison — 51 pts
21. sarah0114 — 51 pts
23. Abraxas — 52 pts
23. Magna — 52 pts
25. brainpower — 53 pts
25. SavoyGirl — 53 pts
27. Blue Lion — 54 pts
27. mitchparov — 54 pts
29. Gamawire — 55 pts
30. BobF — 57 pts
30. Creed Bratton — 57 pts
32. ElendilPickle — 58 pts
32. sethmoko — 58 pts
34. whatisbishkek — 59 pts
35. immaf — 60 pts
36. Sherm — 61 pts
37. dnbguy — 62 pts
38. Vermonter — 64 pts
38. CheezeWhiz — 64 pts
38. psgola — 64 pts
38. waterloo_guy — 64 pts
42. tjconn728 — 65 pts
43. Shaymin — 67 pts
44. spell4yr — 68 pts
45. clprez — 69 pts
46. Bamaman — 71 pts
47. Woppy T — 78 pts
48. doihavetoreally — 80 pts
48. MarkBarrett — 80 pts
50. lpmastor — 97 pts
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by lpmastor »

Messed up a bit on that last one... my lead went from 20 points to only 17...

Oh wait .. :oops:

This is not going well. :lol:

I'm happy I didn't go with UB40 earlier though since I would have gone with the same title Vermonter used and done even worse there.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by jjwaymee »

eboettch wrote: However, I'm going to go ahead and mark this as correct. I can justify doing this for the following reasons:
a) "k" and "l" are next to each other on a standard keyboard, making it plausible that this is a typo.
b) "Akways" is not a real word, making it plausible that this is a typo.
FWIW, I think this was the right call.
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by Vermonter »

jjwaymee wrote:
eboettch wrote: However, I'm going to go ahead and mark this as correct. I can justify doing this for the following reasons:
a) "k" and "l" are next to each other on a standard keyboard, making it plausible that this is a typo.
b) "Akways" is not a real word, making it plausible that this is a typo.
FWIW, I think this was the right call.
Agreed. I'm pretty liberal with my interpretations of responses, sometimes going beyond the "don't change the pronunciation" rule.

After all, we're doing this to have fun, right?
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by eboettch »

9. ISABELLA is a character in Measure for Measure. QUEEN ISABELLA was a person featured on a US postage stamp for her contributions to exploration. Identify one of the following explorers on a US stamp below (full size images can be found here and here). Specify the letter you’re referring to in your answer. (11 possible answers)




Couple connections to this quiz on Jeopardy! last week (Meatloaf, Devil Wears Prada, Othello), but the biggest was an entire category devoted to explorers on Wednesday. There ended up being only one point of crossover, though - a $1600 clue about Matthew Henson, who ended up getting five of his seven responses after that game aired. Unrelated, but noteworthy: in a classic move of avoid-the-obvious, Christopher Columbus only got 2 responses.

E. ALAN SHEPARD – 9 responses
Abraxas
clprez
dnbguy
ElendilPickle
JeopardyMom
mitchparov
SavoyGirl
Sherm
Woppy T

D. MATTHEW HENSON – 7 responses
debramc
doihavetoreally
jgamer
Magna
Peachbox
periwinkle
Tigershark

J. SACAGAWEA – 6 responses
BobF
CheezeWhiz
Gamawire
immaf
RandyG
sarah0114

G. JUAN PONCE DE LEON – 5 responses
goforthetie
Peggles
tjconn728
Vanya
Vermonter

B. ANTOINE CADILLAC – 3 responses
Blue Lion
ihavejeoprosy
nserven

F. RICHARD BYRD – 3 responses
MarkBarrett
Ryno
sethmoko

K. CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS – 2 responses
Rackme32
Turd Ferguson

C. ROBERT PEARY – Singleton!
jjwaymee

H. LEIF ERIKSON – Singleton!
econgator

DROP – 0 points
Creed Bratton
Tpmorrison

SHEEP – 9 points
barandall800
brainpower
Shaymin

Incorrect responses - 18 points
waterloo_guy - B. LaSalle (B. was Antoine Cadillac)
dott888, lpmastor, whatisbishkek - E. John Glenn (E. was Alan Shepard)
psgola - F. Charles Lindbergh (F. was Richard Byrd)
Bamaman - I. Bering (I. was James Cook)
Caboom - J. Pocahontas (J. was Sacagawea)
Spell4yr - Sacagawea (sorry, needed a letter)

Unused responses
A. John Fremont (there is tiny text that says "on Rocky Mountains" but I can see where this one would go unused)
I. James Cook (issued along with a stamp commemorating his exploration in Hawaii, though that one didn't have a portrait)
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Re: TD 214: Ladies of Shakespeare Know Who I Am

Post by BobF »

I almost went with A Zebulon Pike but decided against it. :-)
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