Beginner with questions

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HeathenBenny
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Beginner with questions

Post by HeathenBenny »

Hey there. I'm gonna start studying (like really studying, no kidding this time) for Jeopardy pretty soon. I have a few questions for you experienced folk before I do:

1) Pavlovs. Are there lists available anywhere, or would I have to go about compiling them? I have no idea what things are absolutely necessary and what I can wait on.

2) The archive. How can I use it to help me review? Should I wait on using it until I have a certain amount of knowledge? Can I play it like a normal game?

3) Study books. What approach would be the easiest to take? Should I read broad For Dummies / Idiot's Guide books first to get a general idea? Should my focus be on events, biographies, time periods?

4) Subjects. Should I spend a lot of time focused on one subject before starting a new one? How long should I study one thing before adding in something else?

Let me know if you need me to clarify something, I'm just a bit lost.
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OrangeSAM
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by OrangeSAM »

HeathenBenny wrote:Hey there. I'm gonna start studying (like really studying, no kidding this time) for Jeopardy pretty soon. I have a few questions for you experienced folk before I do:

1) Pavlovs. Are there lists available anywhere, or would I have to go about compiling them? I have no idea what things are absolutely necessary and what I can wait on.

...
This link shows the two main topics containing Pavlov lists:
http://www.jboard.tv/search.php?keyword ... mit=Search
OCSam
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sarah0114
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by sarah0114 »

1) I dunno.

2) If you use Chrome, there's a Chrome add-in that will allow you to use the J-Archive like a real game.

3) There are a lot of books that can be helpful, but I watched White Men Can't Jump while preparing for TOC and got hooked on the World Almanac. And Secrets of the Jeopardy! Champions, while a bit out of date, is full of useful lists.

4) I don't remember much coming up in my games that I actually STUDIED for. I couldn't point to anything and say, "I knew that answer because I read it in this book while studying for Jeopardy!." So I guess my answer would be "study a subject until you're interested in another subject". You never know what will come up and what won't, and what information you can tie together between subjects and what will tip you off to go one direction instead of another.
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ElendilPickle
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by ElendilPickle »

Definitely use the Pavlov thread and the games in J-Archive. Brush up on your strong areas of knowledge, and study more intensively on the weak areas

Bob Harris's book Prisoner of Trebekistan has some really useful tips for remembering information, plus it's just a fun read.
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debramc
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by debramc »

I agree with everything already mentioned.
One of my biggest weaknesses was pop culture. I addressed this mostly by watching all the awards shows (Emmys, Grammys, etc). I might know almost nothing about that year's songs or films or whatever but by the end of the show I knew more, as well as got a good look at a bunch of celebrities who might also turn up. I also made it a point to pay attention to the tabloids in the checkout line at the grocery store - not because they're telling me any facts, but they are telling me who's an "important" celebrity.
And watch the news. Read a Sunday paper and or news/current events magazines.
Personally I found it helpful to make my own lists of presidents and state/province and world capitals. I just did it from memory at first, which showed me where my gaps were, then filled those in. Eventually I just used the lists like flash cards to keep fresh the bits that don't stick. (I still can't keep most of Africa straight but it's way better than when I started.) I should have also done this with British royalty and operas, since the same core facts come up often.
I think the main thing for long term study is don't stop living your life. Bob Harris has a great story in Prisoner of Trebekistan (seriously it's a great book for anyone remotely fond of Jeopardy!) about not going to see Amistad with a friend because he "needed to study" and how it bit him on the butt later. Ultimately the bulk of what you know comes from just paying attention to everything you encounter and tucking away interesting bits in your memory rather than tossing them aside.
And have fun! :)
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Tigershark
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by Tigershark »

debramc wrote: Ultimately the bulk of what you know comes from just paying attention to everything you encounter and tucking away interesting bits in your memory rather than tossing them aside.
And have fun! :)
So true. I was pulling information I remember from playing lots of games of Carmen Sandiego when I was in middle school.

I looked at old games, noted categories that came up a lot and read the wikipedia articles about them.

I also had the Jeopardy iPhone app. It's all categories from old games (I noticed this when I was reviewing J-Archive) and it's fun.
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by ACW »

What's a Pavlov? :oops:
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by jfrumkin »

debramc wrote: Ultimately the bulk of what you know comes from just paying attention to everything you encounter and tucking away interesting bits in your memory rather than tossing them aside.
And have fun! :)
Just to pick out key clues, I got 2 DDs and 1 FJ right during my run. Both DDs were because I visited places (Alcatraz, although it was a super easy clue, and Moscow). The FJ I got right because I had watched a bunch of bad movies to see if I could and one of them was an adaptation of a somewhat obscure book about which the clue was asking. Just open yourself up to experiences. If you're the kind of person who wants to be on this show, you're the kind of person who sucks up information and that shouldn't be limited to just books.
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cosmos
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by cosmos »

Does anyone study high school text books? Seems that a lot of stuff must come from there. It doesn't help to study, say, advanced chemistry if all they want to know is that K stands for potassium.
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Magna
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by Magna »

ACW wrote:What's a Pavlov? :oops:
It's a response you know (or at least have a very good guess for) automatically, just by key words in the clue. For example, "Blah blah blah Himalayan kingdom blah blah" = Bhutan (now that Nepal is a republic). Or "Blah blah star-crossed lovers blah blah blah" = Romeo and Juliet. Just like Pavlov's dog instinctively expected food when it heard the bell ring.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=343&hilit=pavlov+revival
davey
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by davey »

Magna wrote:
ACW wrote:What's a Pavlov? :oops:
It's a response you know (or at least have a very good guess for) automatically, just by key words in the clue. For example, "Blah blah blah Himalayan kingdom blah blah" = Bhutan (now that Nepal is a republic). Or "Blah blah star-crossed lovers blah blah blah" = Romeo and Juliet. Just like Pavlov's dog instinctively expected food when it heard the bell ring.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=343&hilit=pavlov+revival
Pavlov apparently never used a bell--
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/drool
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by DadofTwins »

The Archive and the Chrome add-on are probably your best prep options, especially as you identify genres (categories of categories, like literature, history, geography, etc.) you might be weak in. If you can identify one or more of those, the NAQT website has "You Gotta Know" lists and quizbowl frequency lists that you can convert to flashcards. I used them for review of books and authors, art, and music.

The chapter in Trebekistan to pay attention to is the one that talks about how to learn things. I use the Eightfold Path when I design Sunday school curriculum, and so far it has worked well.

One other tip: If you want to see things that are likely to be "front of mind" for the writers as they prepare games, make a habit of working the LA Times crossword puzzle. There is likely at least one copy floating around the studio on tape days (or there was back in 2004 when I taped. It may all be electronic now.)

Good luck.
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by goatman »

TOC Champ Ben Ingram used J-Archive almost exclusively. I read it (almost) daily, when I'm not ground down by menial tasks and irritating but necessary activities like eating and sleeping.

HIGHLY recommend invest ten bucks in Steven J. Ferrill's Cultural Literacy Trivia Guide on AMZN.com and also visit (And USE!) his website, http://www.jeopardytrivia.com which is an interactive version of the book, It's very, very extensive, although not exhaustive. I write in more clues as they come up in each category. Don't worry about 'getting prepared to study' or 'being ready to learn'; you're ready to learn right now! It takes about 3-4 years to really prepare for an appearance on this show and even that is scratch the surface. I've been following it for 4 years now and only just beginning to fell like I'm getting a grip on it. Sadly, by the time you have learned enough information to really do well, you find you're pushing 50 and the buzzer response dwindles... LOL!

The amount of information is ginormous but it is not infinite and it can be mastered! There's a core body of about 15,000+ recurring clues that you see in every game over & over again. You can't cram for a test of that magnitude! It's a comprehensive final exam on life, the Universe and everything. Like this game, it takes a minute to learn, but a lifetime to master! (What is Chess?)

Go to the J-archive and notice when it opens it displays the current FJ and a random previous FJ clue. If you don't know the response, just mouse over see what it is and if maybe you have ever heard of it. Then go wiki that darn thing and get smart on it. It will appear again in some form eventually; many, many clues in J! are recurring, not ever repeated exactly the same, but the same concept is re-presented and once you know it, it's instaget FTW!

E.g.; "This ship sank on 14 April 1912" = This ship of the White Star line was called unsinkable but down she went" = "The survivors of this shipwreck were picked up by SS Carpathia" = Canadian undersea explorer and filmmaker James Cameron cast Dicaprio and Winslet in the film titled this" = "The SS Californian, passing nearest to the wreckage, never heard the call from this ship because the radioman was asleep and no one saw the flares" = Her sister ships, Olympic and Britannic of the White Star line, never hit any icebergs, but they underwent extensive revisions after this vessel did" = "Rival Cunard LIne reaped the benefit of lost confidence in gigantic ships after this White Star one sank 14 April 1912" = "Captain Edward Smith went down with his ship after it hit an iceberg" = etc etc etc;
You get the idea, yes?!
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by goatman »

cosmos wrote:Does anyone study high school text books? Seems that a lot of stuff must come from there. It doesn't help to study, say, advanced chemistry if all they want to know is that K stands for potassium.
NO. You get lost in useless irrelevant details. J! will not ask you, "Element # 10"; but it will clue like this: "Element #10, found in bars and restaurant windows around the world, glows orange when excited by electric current" = Neon (Easy, see?!)

J! looks for neat-o cool factoids about things that you maybe never heard of, or have heard of but probably never thought of quite like that. E.g.; Textbook: The war of 1812 lasted until the Treaty of Ghent on 24 Dec 1814. J! Clue: The last battle of the War of 1812 was fought at this American city on Jan 8, 1815, more than a week after the war had concluded" = What is New Orleans? (TOM: Pirate Jean Lafitte, Andrew Jackson, Treaty of Ghent).

Memorizing textbooks will not get you to pass the online test. Study the Archive clues and follow that game every day and after about 6 or 8 months a bulb will start glowing and you get really excited when you start to get clues that you previously never heard of (NHO)! IMHO people that never practiced this at all get about 18-22 / 50 on the online test. I got 22 first time, it was a real eye-opener. A year later I got 36 and then a 42 a year after. Last year I clammed badly, couldn't even recall Who the Heck is Katy Perry (ROAR!) but your weak, biologic brain will do that to you. It's infuriating when you recognize the clue, know that you KNOW this, but can't recall it from the nether regions of your biomass! That's why you need flashcards and rote recall. It takes a lot of work! But fun!! Enjoy, and welcome!
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Robert K S
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by Robert K S »

The big problem with the Chrome add-in, I'm not sure you can search the Archive with it installed because it preempts certain letters as hotkeys.
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by FireAntsDefense »

Another suggestion is An Incomplete Education. Great deal of information written in a fun and slightly irreverent fashion that makes it stick. It helped me especially with liberal arts-type material such as Shakespeare (I believe the authors called it Pericles, but I gave away my copy). I became a better player and I hope a more well-rounded person.

Also recommended is Karl Coryat's page http://www.pisspoor.com/jep.html, with some bonus tips on signaling from Michael Dupeé.
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Magna
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by Magna »

davey wrote:Pavlov apparently never used a bell--
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/drool
Call it the mythical Pavlov's dog, then. :)

Btw, dog/salivate/bell (or buzzer) is a Pavlov for Pavlov.
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by ThreeIfByAir »

I agree with the general concept of soaking up information as you go through life, but I used a couple of study books.

One was "How To Get On Jeopardy And Win" by Michael Dupee. It's dated in parts, but there's a ton of useful information and details you can study.

The other was "The Dictionary of Cultural Literacy". There's a ton of stuff in there you can dip in and out of.

Honorable mention goes to Bill Bryson's book "A Short History Of Nearly Everything". When I was on Millionaire several years ago, we listened to the abridged audiobook on the way down. (It's funny and full of interesting facts.) The question that stumped me and sent me home with $1,000 was a medical question.

The answer, as I discovered a year later, was in the unabridged edition.
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HeathenBenny
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by HeathenBenny »

That's a whole lot of useful information, guys. I underestimated the value of "soaking it in" as many of you have put it, and that's how I've always learned. I guess I'm a little more inclined to this than I thought.
goatman wrote:I've been following it for 4 years now and only just beginning to fell like I'm getting a grip on it. Sadly, by the time you have learned enough information to really do well, you find you're pushing 50 and the buzzer response dwindles... LOL!
That's why I'm starting when I'm 16 ;)
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Re: Beginner with questions

Post by marzke »

For Geography, http://lizardpoint.com/geography/index.php worked for me.
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