"Fifty Right, Every Night"

[TheSunWillComeOut]

I'll concur that 50 seems quite high, maybe the questions were easier when that book was written (that was one of the books I brought with me to KC to read but never had the time to), I think Karl Coryat had a much more attainable goal (get $30,000 in Coryat I believe it was.)

AND - this is an important point. I noticed with some horror that my Coryats took a nosedive in between the first year of my training and the second. After studying the stats in the J-Archive, I believe that the questions are getting harder to answer, probably due to the increase in wordplay and other "not-trivia" categories. Observe:

Average combined Coryat, regular play:
Season 27: $35,511
Season 28: $34,979
Season 29: $34,802
Season 30: $33,640
Season 31: $33,187

Karl Coryat's famous "So You Want to Be a Jeopardy! Contestant..." post was my Rosetta Stone of J! lore when I first started training, but I realized, at least by Year 2, that his scary $36K estimate needed an adjustment in the modern era. You wanna be aiming for around $32K-$33K on these boards.

[sarisson]

I did develop a strange "superstition" about how if I had a strong Jeopardy! board, I would have a weak Double Jeopardy! board. $15K Coryat by second commercial break? Yeah, you're gonna have $24K by the end of the game.

That's often the case for me- and I think for just about everyone else who keeps score- although I would add that if I have a weak J! board, I usually have a strong DJ! board.
Thanks for uploading the book passage, Minnesota Myron. Context is everything. I've averaged better on Daily Doubles (usually 9-11 out of 15 a week) and FJ's (3 a week) than MD, but I'm averaging 35 right per episode. Since I've kept score, my # of gets has ranged from 23 to 43, and my Coryats from $15800 to $37600, but I've had few games near either extreme.

[Carpe Diem]

I'm curious what percentage of games feature fifty or more correct responses.
(Perhaps one of the resident computer geniuses would be so kind as to work their magic on the archive....)

[DadofTwins]

I'm curious what percentage of games feature fifty or more correct responses.
(Perhaps one of the resident computer geniuses would be so kind as to work their magic on the archive....)

The average is a little over 6 Triple Stumpers per game plus 1-2 unrevealed clues.

So, it's close.

[triviawayne]

Why don't we just settle this fifty right every night BS now...I propose you only need 7 right every night.

Just get all the $2000 clues correct and you could be a champion. This would give you $12000 going into FJ, and since the player average this season is $10,886.32, that gets you the lead and after those six $2000 clues, all you need to do is answer the final correctly, which players have done only 44.09% of the time.

[John Boy]

If you'd ever faced him in LL, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Pardon my (apparent) ignorance. What is LL?

[legendneverdies]

If you'd ever faced him in LL, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Pardon my (apparent) ignorance. What is LL?

LL is Learned League, others here would know more about it then I however.

[BigDaddyMatty]

If you'd ever faced him in LL, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Pardon my (apparent) ignorance. What is LL?

LL is Learned League, others here would know more about it then I however.

See here and here.

[whoisalexjacob]

This would give you $12000 going into FJ, and since the player average this season is $10,886.32, that gets you the lead

oh ok is that how math works?

[BigDaddyMatty]

Why don't we just settle this fifty right every night BS now...I propose you only need 7 right every night.

Just get all the $2000 clues correct and you could be a champion. This would give you $12000 going into FJ, and since the player average this season is $10,886.32, that gets you the lead and after those six $2000 clues, all you need to do is answer the final correctly, which players have done only 44.09% of the time.

If we're going that route, you really only need five: $2000, $2000, TDD, TDD, FJ!, drop the mic.

[ZachTheRiah]

Why don't we just settle this fifty right every night BS now...I propose you only need 7 right every night.

Just get all the $2000 clues correct and you could be a champion. This would give you $12000 going into FJ, and since the player average this season is $10,886.32, that gets you the lead and after those six $2000 clues, all you need to do is answer the final correctly, which players have done only 44.09% of the time.

If we're going that route, you really only need five: $2000, $2000, TDD, TDD, FJ!, drop the mic.

I can cross that barrier in four clues: Take out one of the $2000s. $16,000 with all four right. The odds of that happening... well... that's another story.

[triviawayne]

This would give you $12000 going into FJ, and since the player average this season is $10,886.32, that gets you the lead

oh ok is that how math works?

I think so, but then beyond regular math I scraped through first year algebra and didn't go beyond that

Really I am just surprised by the length of the debate on 50 right every night, and wanted to point out how absurd it is to give it any merit by swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction and pointing out the least you could do to still win. Then even my number of 7 was lowered by figuring in the DD's being found there. In a real game, knowing all the answers won't matter if you can't beat the other two to the buzzer.

[whoisalexjacob]

Why'd you stop at 7, you know you can win with only 1 correct

I think it's unfair to say that it's absurd to give his advice any merit. Did he say that you absolutely need to know 50 answers to have any chance at winning? If yes, then I agree, that's false. Otherwise I would take it more as a goal to strive for.

Btw how does it make sense to say that obviously no one knows that many answers, but even if you did, the game just comes down to the buzzer. Fun fact: if you know the answer and they don't, you don't need to win a buzzer race

[Sherm]

I think the question being asked in this whole thread, beyond can you get 50, is how many answers do you need to typically be competative on the show. We just had a two day champ say that she was around 38/39 when she was keeping coryats. I can tell you a couple of years ago I was trying to figure out how good you had to be to do well, and sometimes you'll have the good fortune of a player that basically has a triggering mechanism that lets you know if they buzz in. Ashok Poozhikunnel a ToC level guy from early in season 29 was one of those guys. I can't remember anymore, but he either completely dropped or raised his arm everytime he buzzed in. I remember counting those and I came away with the concept that if you knew 40 a game you could do very well.

This season, Choyon Manjrekar (a boardy) always swung his arm. He's the only one I've noticed this year, not that I've been looking. I counted his last two games, and I'm pretty sure his number was 39 (he won 28) when he won his third game and 29 (he won 13) when he lost in game 4. He dominated game three (he found all three DD's) and in losing game 4 was completely done in by missing 2 DD in DJ!. BTW, had he been able to win 70% of the buzzer races in game 4 like he did game 3. His total of buzzer wins would have been right with the player that beat him, while not even ringing in 30 times.

I read a piece some put on here about Jennings not long ago that said he won just over 70% of the time he buzzed in. Combine that with the fact that he probably was close to 50 a night, and you can understand how he won like he did. Jennings seems like he was about the perfect storm for jeopardy. It appears as if nobody other than Rutter can get the timing down the way he did. I think the one thing that Jennings and Rutter have shown is that there is a skill to the buzzer that can be mastered, because those two have mastered it.

[triviawayne]

Why'd you stop at 7, you know you can win with only 1 correct

I think it's unfair to say that it's absurd to give his advice any merit. Did he say that you absolutely need to know 50 answers to have any chance at winning? If yes, then I agree, that's false. Otherwise I would take it more as a goal to strive for.

Btw how does it make sense to say that obviously no one knows that many answers, but even if you did, the game just comes down to the buzzer. Fun fact: if you know the answer and they don't, you don't need to win a buzzer race

You are right, only 1 is necessary as long as the other two tank and don't make the final; kind of only proves my point that putting a number on it is not a good measuring stick to use at all.

To be fair, I didn't read his words, my understanding from what has been posted here is it was a hard-line 50 or you'll never win on the show type of statement; which I would still say is absurd.

I think you may have misread something I wrote, I never said "obviously no one knows that many answers"; there are others here posting that they have done it, and I'm sure there are several out there that have done it, possibly even regularly. I believe many people that make the show can do it on a regular basis as we can clearly see all three mashing the button on almost every question.

I'll put myself out there as an example of the point I was trying to make. I am on the low end of those that can pass the test. I think my best test was 44, my usual score is 35-38. However I believe I have just as much chance of winning a game as (mostly) anyone else that gets on the show. I have a great sense of timing which should help me buzzer wise, and I have a much better sense of gameplay than most contestants I see. I expect I would have better awareness of score, I know I have more willingness to bet large, and I know what I need to bet in FJ when that time comes. How many times each week do we find ourselves screaming, "WTF kind of bet was that, what good would that have done you either way?????" I believe all these factors are much more important than 50 right every night.

Part of why it was so great to watch you, you knew how to play and you knew how to bet, and you knew more answers than a C-minus high school waste like me.

[whoisalexjacob]

Why'd you stop at 7, you know you can win with only 1 correct

I think it's unfair to say that it's absurd to give his advice any merit. Did he say that you absolutely need to know 50 answers to have any chance at winning? If yes, then I agree, that's false. Otherwise I would take it more as a goal to strive for.

Btw how does it make sense to say that obviously no one knows that many answers, but even if you did, the game just comes down to the buzzer. Fun fact: if you know the answer and they don't, you don't need to win a buzzer race

You are right, only 1 is necessary as long as the other two tank and don't make the final; kind of only proves my point that putting a number on it is not a good measuring stick to use at all.

To be fair, I didn't read his words, my understanding from what has been posted here is it was a hard-line 50 or you'll never win on the show type of statement; which I would still say is absurd.

I think you may have misread something I wrote, I never said "obviously no one knows that many answers"; there are others here posting that they have done it, and I'm sure there are several out there that have done it, possibly even regularly. I believe many people that make the show can do it on a regular basis as we can clearly see all three mashing the button on almost every question.

I'll put myself out there as an example of the point I was trying to make. I am on the low end of those that can pass the test. I think my best test was 44, my usual score is 35-38. However I believe I have just as much chance of winning a game as (mostly) anyone else that gets on the show. I have a great sense of timing which should help me buzzer wise, and I have a much better sense of gameplay than most contestants I see. I expect I would have better awareness of score, I know I have more willingness to bet large, and I know what I need to bet in FJ when that time comes. How many times each week do we find ourselves screaming, "WTF kind of bet was that, what good would that have done you either way?????" I believe all these factors are much more important than 50 right every night.

Part of why it was so great to watch you, you knew how to play and you knew how to bet, and you knew more answers than a C-minus high school waste like me.

Fair enough, totally understandable. I just know I have put in a lot of time over the years and I guess I get a little annoyed by seeing people diminish the value of that. Also have respect for Dupee as one of the great players and wanted to back him up a little bit.

(And thanks man, appreciate it.)

[triviawayne]

I get the whole putting time in, i doubt many have put in more than me (although I'm sure there's some).

I don't have the education many players have and haven't been exposed to the things that come with that education. I am at a big disadvantage in art and literature, I never had Latin so word roots aren't something I've learned.

I've had to work for my trivia mind, including reading the World Almanac cover to cover, and I still study hard.

When my time comes, gameplay will make up for my shortcomings vs the others.

[JillyJill]

Here's the relevant paragraph from DuPee's book.

The Goal: Fifty Right Every Night

When I first began studying for the show, I averaged about forty right answers to the sixty-one questions Jeopardy! asked every night (i.e., thirty for Single Jeopardy!, thirty for Double Jeopardy!, and one Final Jeopardy!). I only got about half of the Daily Doubles and 40 percent of Final Jeopardy! questions right. By the time I was about to go on the Tournament of Champions, I got over fifty questions right every time and got four out of five Final Jeopardy! questions right every week. It was all because of proper preparation.

50 right was his ToC-ready score. In the books he's setting up the chapter on how to prepare for the show. The next paragraph asserts that there was much trial and error and useless information before he found a prep method that consistently increased his performance. He doesn't say potential contestants have to be getting that many correct. He's saying his prep method can help contestants meet that goal more quickly, without the false starts he had in working out what to study.

Here's the rest of that first section for context, with links to a good chunk (but not all) of the rest of the book, courtesy of the Internet Archive's mirror of Dupee's personal website, circa 2001.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010819221 ... repare.htm

This excerpt intrigued me, so I ordered his book used on Amazon. It's excellent! I found his explanation of his wagering strategy easy to follow and his section on specific question prep very useful. I wonder if the questions have shifted a bit away from opera and ballet in the past almost 20 years, though? Doesn't matter- I can still learn the info!

I also enjoyed his analysis of good buzzer strategy. He advocates reading the question to the end (ahead of Alex's narration) and ignoring the lights around the board but timing your buzz based on Alex's last syllable. It's hard for me to tune out Alex's voice and read ahead and then tune back in for the buzz, but I'm working on it.

[MartinMoore]

I started tracking my results when this thread appeared, and hit 50 for the first time on Wednesday (7/29/15) with 54: 27 in each of the first two rounds and a blank in Final. Previously I tended to be in the high 30's to mid 40's, so this game was either an easy board or the categories were my cup of tea! (Or both, I guess; they're not mutually exclusive.)

[MikeDupee]

dhk (paraphrased) on the jeopardyfan live panel:

(incredulous tone) "Mike Dupee only got 29 in his best game!"


Annoyed me to hear you disrespect Mr. Dupee like that. I mean I'm half-kidding, but seriously, you seemed to be implying that you found a smoking gun or something, when in reality there's no reason why those numbers couldn't be consistent with him knowing 50+ every game

36, but who's counting...http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=425