Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

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Peggles
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Peggles »

I guessed error, only because it fit the category.

I always thought Dick Enberg was a producer (from Quiz Show). I don't remember him as a host.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by OrangeSAM »

econgator wrote:
Magna wrote:
nlw44 wrote:I agree it was awkward, but certainly not un-gettable (as proven by the number of people who have gotten it.)
For an RQ to be given, the clue doesn't necessarily have to be ungettable - just misleading or ambiguous in some way. Often people get those questions right because they didn't spot or focus on the ambiguity, or because they made a lucky guess.
It's a damn game. There should never, ever be a replacement question.
I thought the same thing when someone inserted a dollar sign up-thread.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

cinemaniax7 wrote:
econgator wrote:
Magna wrote:
nlw44 wrote:I agree it was awkward, but certainly not un-gettable (as proven by the number of people who have gotten it.)
For an RQ to be given, the clue doesn't necessarily have to be ungettable - just misleading or ambiguous in some way. Often people get those questions right because they didn't spot or focus on the ambiguity, or because they made a lucky guess.
It's a damn game. There should never, ever be a replacement question.
I'm pretty much with you, E. Just as bad calls (and bad trades — who can forget Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas?) are a part of baseball, the occasional ambiguous clue is a part of the game and, indeed, part of its charm. Give the writers a break and just enjoy playing.
1. Just because it's "just a game" doesn't mean there shouldn't be fair play and integrity.

2.. I've never found the "bad calls are a part of the game" argument persuasive. Let's let some team get screwed because the umpire made a clearly erroneous call, even though we have the tools to supplement the umpire's human limitations and overrule the call via instant replay!

3. Even if you want to go by "part of the game": To the best of my recollection, RQ's have been a part of the SHC for as long as I've been playing it (close to a decade, I think; how long has this institution been around?). They were certainly a well-established feature in the DadofTwins era. So RQ's are themselves part of the game. This goes hand in hand with the fundamental credo, which has continued under the new management, of "I want to give you points."
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by mahatma »

If there are going to be RQs (and I'd be completely fine if there were not), I think they should only be in response to very specific situations.

If there is a question (as we had earlier) with a 0% get rate, AND that 0% get rate can be traced to a problem with the question (not a hole in our collective knowledge, cf cembalo).

If there is a clear factual error in the question (cf Love Field), this may also warrant a new question.

However, when we devolve into campaigning for RQs based on semantics, when clearly a significant portion of the players had no problem with the original question, that's just...unseemly.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

immaf wrote:
P.S. Also a correction to immaf's post: if you disconnect a charged capacitor, it will keep the charge (and, hence, the energy).
If you say so... But if a capacitor is unconnected, aren't both plates at ground? Unless you're holding it in the air or something? Even then, won't it probably discharge through your body to ground?

I really don't know. It's been a LONG time since I knew any of this stuff.
If it's grounded, it's no longer unconnected. It's connected in a new circuit.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

Magna wrote:
mahatma wrote:
ACW wrote:
mahatma wrote:Wouldn't 'made just three of these' lead to an answer of 'errors', which would not fit the category?
Yeah, that is true. I don't think of errors as "plays" per se though.
Maybe 'was only charged with this three times', although that might have been considered too easy.
I don't think of errors as plays either, which led me to reject "error" as an answer. I was looking for something more like "triple play" (though that wouldn't fit the clue). Given that it was just a 4-pointer, I don't think it would've been too easy (though maybe easier than the 2-pointer).

Please add me to the list of those asking for a RQ on this question, and on the 6-pointer as well.
I know nothing about baseball, but would have had a decent chance of guessing "error" with a different wording. No chance with "play" in the clue. But my lack of baseball knowledge also prevents me from judging whether error can be considered a play.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

mahatma wrote:
9021amyers wrote:I'm don't like the wording of the 6-spot clue in Mono-Consonant Words. "This kind of artist" made be believe the answer had to do with the title of the artist's profession, not the medium he works with. If asked by someone what he does for a living, Mr. Whitmill would not respond with, "I'm a tattoo."

I humbly request an RQ.
'Mr. Whitmill, what do you do for a living?'
'I'm an artist.'
'Interesting. What kind of artist are you?'
'A tattoo artist.'
"This kind of" is asking for the modifier, so I don't think there was anything wrong with the clue.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by econgator »

hbomb1947 wrote:1. Just because it's "just a game" doesn't mean there shouldn't be fair play and integrity.
I agree, but that should extend no further than "no cheating".

We shouldn't be wasting someone's time writing yet another question for something that has zero relevance.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

nlw44 wrote:So, I just noticed that one entry for today pluralized all of the "mono-consonant words" answers he or she gave. A week or two ago I mentioned that I was pretty obsessed/careful about making sure I got this correct even when it didn't seem to matter to the question, and this is a perfect situation for why one should make that a habit. I don't know if the judge in this case is going to be rigid or not, but you have to agree that by pluralizing, each answer is rendered incorrect according to the directions provided. If they were my answers, I'd be chewing nails as soon as I realized I'd done this. Not knowing something is one thing; making careless errors is just ultra-frustrating.
Additionally, the category was misnamed. Mono-consonant words would be those containing only one consonant (and only one instance of it). The category could have been more appropriately called "homoconsonant words" or "isoconsonant words".
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

econgator wrote:
hbomb1947 wrote:1. Just because it's "just a game" doesn't mean there shouldn't be fair play and integrity.
I agree, but that should extend no further than "no cheating".

We shouldn't be wasting someone's time writing yet another question for something that has zero relevance.
This whole SHC has "zero relevance."

It's not a waste of time to correct an error that deprived participants of a fair shot at solving a clue (or an error that prevented the clue from having a correct response). DoT certainly didn't think it was. The key is that RQ's be issued under clearly defined circumstances, although it will often be a bit of a judgment call as to whether those circumstances have been met.

P.S. Despite the wording of the first sentence of the preceding paragraph, I don't mean to imply that I'm advocating an RQ for yesterday's 4-pointer. :) I'm agnostic as to that one.
Last edited by hbomb1947 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by mahatma »

gnash wrote:
nlw44 wrote:So, I just noticed that one entry for today pluralized all of the "mono-consonant words" answers he or she gave. A week or two ago I mentioned that I was pretty obsessed/careful about making sure I got this correct even when it didn't seem to matter to the question, and this is a perfect situation for why one should make that a habit. I don't know if the judge in this case is going to be rigid or not, but you have to agree that by pluralizing, each answer is rendered incorrect according to the directions provided. If they were my answers, I'd be chewing nails as soon as I realized I'd done this. Not knowing something is one thing; making careless errors is just ultra-frustrating.
Additionally, the category was misnamed. Mono-consonant words would be those containing only one consonant (and only one instance of it). The category could have been more appropriately called "homoconsonant words" or "isoconsonant words".
I made it all the way through that category, in fact through most of the day, before being made aware that there was a clarification (three or more instances of the single consonant). Racing with blinders...
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

cinemaniax7 wrote:
econgator wrote:
Magna wrote:
nlw44 wrote:I agree it was awkward, but certainly not un-gettable (as proven by the number of people who have gotten it.)
For an RQ to be given, the clue doesn't necessarily have to be ungettable - just misleading or ambiguous in some way. Often people get those questions right because they didn't spot or focus on the ambiguity, or because they made a lucky guess.
It's a damn game. There should never, ever be a replacement question.
I'm pretty much with you, E. Just as bad calls (and bad trades — who can forget Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas?) are a part of baseball, the occasional ambiguous clue is a part of the game and, indeed, part of its charm. Give the writers a break and just enjoy playing.
But your argument is completely arbitrary. "Bad calls are part of baseball"... OK, but if you picked a different game, you could say, "just as endless reviews of video recording are part of football..." or "just as the rules of chess require going back to the last legal move..."

ETA: Now I see that Justice Hbomb has given a very similar response, which I join in its entirety. :)
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by This Is Kirk! »

I think an RQ is appropriate if the clue just turns out to be flat wrong, but I think asking for an RQ because you found the wording of the Q confusing doesn't fly. That's part of the game.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

If only I had done today's Ken Jennings weekly news quiz in Slate before playing this week's Match Day 5, I wouldn't have had to clam on the 10-pointer and would have had a rare (for me) perfecto. :twisted:
Spoiler
Question 6 of that quiz asked, "Why was Baal Shamin, a 2,000 year old Phoenician god of storms and rain, in the news this week?"

The answer, of course (which was obvious since I had just played today's SHC), was "ISIS blew up his temple."

Jennings goes on to explain, "The ruins of Palmyra had been named a World Heritage Site in 1980 by UNESCO, which called the temple's destruction 'a war crime.'" (emphasis added)
Last edited by hbomb1947 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

This Is Kirk! wrote:I think an RQ is appropriate if the clue just turns out to be flat wrong, but I think asking for an RQ because you found the wording of the Q confusing doesn't fly. That's part of the game.
As noted above, that statement is contrary to the historical record. There were numerous occasions when DoT issued an RQ when he deemed the wording of the question to be ambiguous or misleading.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by BoK »

Regarding RQs from R4D4:

Short answer: neither "error" nor "tattoo" will get an RQ.

Long answer: I don't agree with the argument that there should never be RQs. Yes, you can say that mistakes are "part of the game" but you can also say that RQs are "part of the game." In SHC, RQs have been part of the game for as long as I remember, and I see no reason to change it now. And if such a change were to be made, it should be done at the beginning of the season, not now.
The question then comes down to when you should have an RQ, which is ultimately a judgment call. Sometimes it's an easy call such as when the clue contains clearly incorrect information (Love Field). Other times, it's much grayer area. You're arguing about the fine meanings of individual words. I don't think either clue is fatally flawed. A tattoo artist is a kind of artist. Whether an error is a type of play is a closer call, and while the wording could have been improved, ultimately I think it's good enough.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by ACW »

56 today :D :D :D (didn't know Hero; couldn't remember the name of Palmyra). Thanks for adding the "continental" for Europa; that was what helped me.
The 2 was undervalued IMO. I would've made it "The leader of this country awarded Spencer Stone and three other passengers on a high-speed train the Legion d'honneur {or, if too easy, the country's highest honor}) for stopping a terrorist attack."
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by econgator »

hbomb1947 wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:I think an RQ is appropriate if the clue just turns out to be flat wrong, but I think asking for an RQ because you found the wording of the Q confusing doesn't fly. That's part of the game.
As noted above, that statement is contrary to the historical record. There were numerous occasions when DoT issued an RQ when he deemed the wording of the question to be ambiguous or misleading.
I think he's saying what I'm saying: that never should have flown in the first place.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by hbomb1947 »

econgator wrote:
hbomb1947 wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:I think an RQ is appropriate if the clue just turns out to be flat wrong, but I think asking for an RQ because you found the wording of the Q confusing doesn't fly. That's part of the game.
As noted above, that statement is contrary to the historical record. There were numerous occasions when DoT issued an RQ when he deemed the wording of the question to be ambiguous or misleading.
I think he's saying what I'm saying: that never should have flown in the first place.
Kirk can speak for himself as to what he meant, but if your interpretation of his post is correct, the post is self-contradictory because the issuance of RQ's for misleading clues has been part of the game since the dim mists of its history. You can't simultaneously argue that DoT was doing it wrong all these years, while maintaining that the way you think he should have done it is "part of the game." This is, of course, separate from the weaknesses of the "That's part of the game" argument.
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Re: Summer Hiatus Challenge 2015 - Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Volante »

So apparently I completely ignored the text of the Navy question. I just had a general concept of "military, women, first" and instantly thought of this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /32055661/

RTFQ...
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