Tuesday, May 3, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[John Boy]

I knew that the Missouri was the site of Japan's surrender, but I didn't know it had been turned into a memorial physically close to the Arizona.

I wrote down "Pearl Harbor Memorial and Atomic Bomb Memorial" just to write something. I didn't have anything more specific in mind than the Pearl Harbor location, and I wasn't very sure of the exact names of the memorials or monuments located there. I knew the ship was called the "Arizona" but I didn't know the exact title "USS Arizona Memorial" as opposed to "Pearl Harbor Memorial" or something else.

(Note: I spent the first 36 years of my life in Canada. I've tried to brush up on my Americana in recent years, but I still have gaps in my knowledge of exact titles of things.)

I also did not know that the Missouri is a memorial, or close to the Arizona. Sure woulda helped. I said Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. Also didn't know they necessarily meant two memorials in close physical proximity. Oh well.

[Elijah Baley]

If you haven't been to Pearl Harbor recently, I could see where this would b a difficult FJ. Besides the fact that most people probably think of Washington, D.C. to start with, the Missouri hasn't been in Pearl Harbor very long.

It also seems like it's a lot more to write down in 30 seconds than the typical FJ; maybe they would have accepted abbreviations?

[Volante]

If you haven't been to Pearl Harbor recently, I could see where this would b a difficult FJ. Besides the fact that most people probably think of Washington, D.C. to start with, the Missouri hasn't been in Pearl Harbor very long.

It also seems like it's a lot more to write down in 30 seconds than the typical FJ; maybe they would have accepted abbreviations?

Or if you haven't seen Battleship. (It was filmed in part on the Missouri)

[alietr]

I fell for the same trap, and also did a headship ...

I'm trying to figure out what that one looks like.

But the more important question: what did Maggie say/do that had Nicole in stitches?

Jason said that during the entire bus ride over to the studio, Maggie kept singing Hot for Teacher. The fact that it was referenced on the board just cracked Nicole up.

As for FJ, I spent way too much time in DC, got Pearl Harbor and then ended up with VJ Day, figuring there's some sort of memorial to it. I had no idea the Missouri was still around, let alone in Pearl Harbor near the Arizona Memorial, let alone that it was considered a memorial. I just wasn't going to get there on this one.

Personally, I feel this one is going to wind up being tougher than the other FJ's for the week. I've never liked when they are not consistent in that regard.

[jeff6286]

This may very well be one of the tougher finals of the week, though early results on the quickie poll say not unreasonably so. I was not trying to be an ass and argue with opus, or say that this is the easiest clue ever and anyone who missed it is a dummy, but I felt it was a massive leap to say that this clue should've been saved for the three best players of all time, and kind of a cheapshot at teachers as well in saying it had no business in their tournament.

[skullturf]

I think where we can perhaps all agree is that with clues that ask for *two* things, it's very easy to take a wrong path during the 30 seconds.

If we had a survey question along the lines of "I knew that Tuesday's FJ had *something* to do with Pearl Harbor or Hawaii", that would poll highly.

[brick]

The difficult part of that FJ clue for me was considering the USS Missouri to be a memorial. I also didn't realize it was docked in Pearl Harbor. I answered Arizona and Iwo Jima even though I was fairly sure the Iwo Jima statue is not in Hawaii.

Someone else in my living room landed on Iwo Jima as the second one also. The statue is Arlington, VA.

[brick]

Tons of things to comment on. Wow.

Let's start at the end. That was a nasty FJ. I wouldn't object if this was a TOC or Rutter-Jennings-Craig grudge rematch. For a regular game? No. For a TEACHERS tournament? No way. With wildcard spots to compete for against others who got much easier FJs? What were the writers thinking?

Seriously? I'm fine with someone not putting all the pieces together in 30 seconds as there are a lot of things to think about, but what part of the correct response required anything more than basic American history knowledge?

The part where you have to remember the names of both ships AND know that there are memorials attached to both of them. If you got it, bully for you. But yes. Seriously. We'll see how it polls, I guess.

You don't have to know that there are memorials attached to them, the clue tells you that there are memorials.

Ummm.....

Yeah... uuummmm.... Jeff, I wouldn't write something down that I didn't know was a memorial in a category about memorials, you dig? So yes, you had to know they were memorials to get this right.

[brick]

[quote="opusthepenguin"]At the risk of having Sony shut down my whole operation, those of you who missed the first 9 or so clues can see them here:

*poof*

That helped my Coryat a bit. Thanks!

[jeff6286]

The part where you have to remember the names of both ships AND know that there are memorials attached to both of them. If you got it, bully for you. But yes. Seriously. We'll see how it polls, I guess.

You don't have to know that there are memorials attached to them, the clue tells you that there are memorials.

Ummm.....

Yeah... uuummmm.... Jeff, I wouldn't write something down that I didn't know was a memorial in a category about memorials, you dig? So yes, you had to know they were memorials to get this right.

Again, the clue is telling you that there is a memorial signifying the end of the US involvement in WW II. If you know the war ended on the deck of the Missouri, are you really not going to answer that because you personally aren't aware of it being turned into a memorial? If you have a better answer to give, I'm all ears. Sure there could be other hypothetical answers, a memorial to the pen Truman used to sign the bombing order, a memorial to the Manhattan Project or the planes that dropped the bombs or the USS Indianapolis that delivered parts for the bombs to be dropped. But I'm guessing you don't have any knowledge telling you that any of these things have memorials in a "neighboring" location to the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor, so again I ask, are you going to leave it blank rather than write down the Missouri? FJ isn't always about "knowing" facts, it's about giving the most likely answers based on what you know and what the clue gives you.

[skullturf]

Again, the clue is telling you that there is a memorial signifying the end of the US involvement in WW II. If you know the war ended on the deck of the Missouri, are you really not going to answer that because you personally aren't aware of it being turned into a memorial? If you have a better answer to give, I'm all ears. Sure there could be other hypothetical answers, a memorial to the pen Truman used to sign the bombing order, a memorial to the Manhattan Project or the planes that dropped the bombs or the USS Indianapolis that delivered parts for the bombs to be dropped. But I'm guessing you don't have any knowledge telling you that any of these things have memorials in a "neighboring" location to the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor, so again I ask, are you going to leave it blank rather than write down the Missouri? FJ isn't always about "knowing" facts, it's about giving the most likely answers based on what you know and what the clue gives you.

I don't know if very many people *explicitly* considered the Missouri but then *decided* not to write it down because of a lack of certainty.

With that FJ, it was possible for the Missouri not to pop into one's mind at all, if it doesn't occur to you to interpret the clue as referring to the surrender document that *literally* ended U.S. involvement in the war. In the brief time that is 30 seconds, the clue could be interpreted more loosely as "think of something important that was associated with or almost coincided with the end of the war".

[alietr]

Alternates that ended WWII: Atomic bombings and V-J Day. I supposed either could have been considered the 'end' of WWII.

[brick]

Again, the clue is telling you that there is a memorial signifying the end of the US involvement in WW II. If you know the war ended on the deck of the Missouri, are you really not going to answer that because you personally aren't aware of it being turned into a memorial? If you have a better answer to give, I'm all ears. Sure there could be other hypothetical answers, a memorial to the pen Truman used to sign the bombing order, a memorial to the Manhattan Project or the planes that dropped the bombs or the USS Indianapolis that delivered parts for the bombs to be dropped. But I'm guessing you don't have any knowledge telling you that any of these things have memorials in a "neighboring" location to the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor, so again I ask, are you going to leave it blank rather than write down the Missouri? FJ isn't always about "knowing" facts, it's about giving the most likely answers based on what you know and what the clue gives you.

I don't know if very many people *explicitly* considered the Missouri but then *decided* not to write it down because of a lack of certainty.

With that FJ, it was possible for the Missouri not to pop into one's mind at all, if it doesn't occur to you to interpret the clue as referring to the surrender document that *literally* ended U.S. involvement in the war. In the brief time that is 30 seconds, the clue could be interpreted more loosely as "think of something important that was associated with or almost coincided with the end of the war".

I got mentally stuck in Japan, and was thinking that maybe they were extending neighboring to "bordering the Pacific" or I maybe didn't give the word neighboring much weight. I was trying to pick between Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So the "I didn't know the Missouri was a memorial" isn't my personal argument. I just think it is an argument that makes sense. I was going with bookends as the acts of war that began and ended the conflict. I just flat blanked on the Missouri's role, despite having visited both memorials a number of times.

[Vermonter]

Alternates that ended WWII: Atomic bombings and V-J Day. I supposed either could have been considered the 'end' of WWII.

My thought process: it started with some bombs, and ended with some bombs. Nice 'bookends'.

[OrangeSAM]

If I'd been asked on Monday, "Whatever happened to 'Mighty Mo'?", I might have shrugged my shoulders or taken a minute or two to consider it. But when I saw this FJ! clue, I knew it right away.

[skullturf]

Fun fact:

Arizona and Missouri are also the names of the two US states that have been the home of the NFL's Cardinals.

[jsterlacci]

Regarding Jason's FJ wager, he told me that he was so nervous and shocked that he had that much of a lead that he just forgot the rules, putting and locking his wager in really before considering it. Believe me, even though it all worked out in that game, he was kicking himself over it.

Thanks for mentioning that, Cory!

But yes, to clarify...in the heat of the moment of that end of game Daily Double, I wagered $1 too much (or really wagered too much period) and in that moment of realizing I potentially blew a locked spot to the semifinals, it threw me off to finish the game. I was relatively sure of 'elocution' but didn't buzz in because I didn't want to go into Final on a downward run, and was so rattled that I made an absolutely asinine wager for Final. I locked in the $1,000 wager BEFORE Maggie (the contestant coordinator) came around. Her reaction upon looking at my screen was 'REALLY?!' and I don't blame her! I think I just overthought the math of the whole tournament without giving any real thought to probability, game theory, and so on. It worked out for me here, but I immediately realized how ridiculous it was.

Jason should not have bet a single dollar. Even if Nicole had doubled to match him, he'd still get wildcard preference over her, right? If so, he wasn't paying attention when Maggie explained the rules. I picture him nodding his head in triple time and saying, "Uh-huh-uh-huh-uh-huh-didyousaytherewasmorecoffee?" Seriously, he spoke so quickly during the game I had to check to make sure I didn't have the show on fast-forward!

If Nicole had doubled me and I had bet nothing, we would have had a tiebreaker. I *did* pay attention to the rules! I swear!

And yeah...I'm a fast talker -- that's how we do in New Jersey!

(Fun side story: When my wife's close friend from Taiwan met my best friend and I for the first time, she had to get up and leave the table we were at because she literally could not understand a word we were saying due to the speed at which he and I were going at!)

Also: If you're the opusthepenguin from Vimeo, thank you so much for posting my episode! Most of my friends and family missed the first portion of the episode due to the ABC News interruption, and they wanted to know how the game progressed, so you are a lifesaver!

[MarkBarrett]

Fun fact:

Arizona and Missouri are also the names of the two US states that have been the home of the NFL's Cardinals.

Fun fact: The Cardinals also played in Illinois as the Chicago Cardinals.

[Golf]

If a typical Jeopardy clue asked where the U.S. involvement in WWII began everybody here would say Pearl Harbor.
If a typical Jeopardy clue asked where the U.S. involvement in WWII ended everybody here would say the USS Missouri.

Those two facts separately are yawners. So apparently many people got tripped up by the tricky wording of the clue. Interesting.

[jeff6286]

If a typical Jeopardy clue asked where the U.S. involvement in WWII began everybody here would say Pearl Harbor.
If a typical Jeopardy clue asked where the U.S. involvement in WWII ended everybody here would say the USS Missouri.

Those two facts separately are yawners. So apparently many people got tripped up by the tricky wording of the clue. Interesting.

I think the "everybody" that knows USS Missouri is a fair bit lower than the "everybody" that knows Pearl Harbor, or even the slightly smaller "everybody" that knows the USS Arizona. If a FJ clue gave basic facts and asked for the Arizona, I'm guessing it would poll in the 80-90% range. A similar clue asking for the Missouri, I suspect would be more in the 60-70% range. This is purely my hunch based on anecdotal evidence.