TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

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Bamaman
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by Bamaman »

If Kennedy were on the list, would he be considered to have attended LBJ's swearing in since he was on the plane?
Peggles
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by Peggles »

opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 9

INCORRECT ANSWERS (10)
E. William Henry Harrison - Peggles

He didn't serve as Senior Officer of the United States Army because he was dead.
So what's your point? :lol:

I can't believe I did this - talk about a brain fart! I confused before and after.

I'm also annoyed because I could have scored a singleton with
Jackson. I visited the Hermitage a few years ago when I was in
Nashville, and would have used that TOM.
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

Peggles wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 9

INCORRECT ANSWERS (10)
E. William Henry Harrison - Peggles

He didn't serve as Senior Officer of the United States Army because he was dead.
So what's your point? :lol:
This was the post that convinced me to go to bed last night. I read that first line and thought, "What? How does she not get that you can't be Senior Officer if you're dead?" I was trying to come up with a tactful reply when, fortunately, I decided to keep reading. The next line finally made me tumble to your deadpan humor.

When a joke with a LOLface counts as so subtle that I miss it, it's time to hit the hay.
Peggles wrote:I can't believe I did this - talk about a brain fart! I confused before and after.

I'm also annoyed because I could have scored a singleton with
Jackson. I visited the Hermitage a few years ago when I was in
Nashville, and would have used that TOM.
TD is a fickle mistress. It's only in retrospect that we understand what we obviously should have picked.
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 10

10. THE PLUMAGE DON'T ENTER INTO IT - Name a president who died on the following date
  1. December 14, 1799
  2. July 4, 1826
  3. July 4, 1831
  4. June 28, 1836
  5. April 4, 1841
  6. June 8, 1845
  7. February 23, 1848
  8. January 18, 1862
  9. July 24, 1862
B. John Adams - July 4, 1826 (3)
debramc (times a GROUNDHOG of 2 = 6 points)
Peggles
barandall800

There wasn't a lot to choose from here unless you know your presidential dates pretty well. But one thing everyone seems to know is that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on Independence Day within hours of each other. Adams' last words reportedly were "Thomas Jefferson survives."
Spoiler
Which turned out not to be the case.

(Of course, there were two July 4th dates to pick from above. But maybe you also knew that Jefferson and Adams died 50 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Or maybe you just guessed the earlier of the two July 4ths.) Three of you decided to take the risk that the wool wouldn't fly too high. A three isn't a bad outcome.


C. James Monroe - July 4, 1831 (3)
MarkBarrett
Paucle
Bamaman

Clever choice. I mean, everyone knows which two presidents died on the SAME July 4th day. But how many know that Monroe died on that date a few years later? Well, the three of you did, for starters. Baa.

B. Thomas Jefferson - July 4, 1826 (1)
Woof

Three people sheeped up with Adams. Three more cleverly avoided Adams only to meet their flock-mates at the other July 4th death. Woof gets a singleton with Jefferson. All sheep are created equal, but shome sheep are more equal than others. Life just isn't fair. I wonder if Jefferson is the more obvious choice for this date. After all, Adams' dying words mention Jefferson. That cements Jefferson's name in our minds even if we forget who uttered those words. It's too bad that Jefferson, as far as we know, did not return the favor. Had he said "John Adams survives", at least he'd have been correct. He pre-deceased his compatriot--and if that ain't the mot juste, I don't know a mot juste when I see one--by a few hours.

But we shouldn't be too hard on old Tom. Adams apparently died of old age, lucid to the end, and without terribly painful ailments. Jefferson, I am informed by the monticello.org site, died of "a combination of ailments: exhaustion from intense diarrhea, toxemia from a kidney infection, uremia from kidney damage, and finally orthostatic old-age pneumonia." So we can cut him some slack if his last words were more along the lines of urrrrrgggghhh.


A. George Washington - December 14, 1799 (1)
xxaaaxx

What a singleton! Even if you're fuzzy on the dates, you probably can figure out that only one president could have died that early. But somehow xxaaaxx gets Washington all to himself.

F. Andrew Jackson - June 8, 1845 (1)
goforthetie

F. TRICKY DICK - April 22, 1994 (1)
cheezguyty

Hey, cheezguyty, you've got to admit it's really impressive that goforthetie knew that. Even if he did stick you with a point.

H. John Tyler - January 18, 1862 (1)
econgator

H. TRICKY DICK - April 22, 1994 (1)
jeff6286

And econgator knowing Tyler's death date is even more impressive, right jeff6286? There were two 1862 deaths to choose from, so just knowing the year wouldn't have been enough. For that reason, I would have thought this was a great place for someone to stick their TRICKY DICK. Oh well. It only cost you a point.

SLICK WILLIE - Still kicking (2)
amorris525
DadofTwins

HONEST ABE - April 15, 1865 (0)
Rackme32
Vanya
gamawire
mitchparov

INCORRECT ANSWERS (9)
C. James Madison - immaf
G. William Henry Harrison - ayeembored
I. John Tyler - plasticene

Ouch. Plasticene picked the wrong 1862 date for Tyler's death. Sorry, dude, but your comeback just flatlined. I'm calling it. Time of Death, 12:13 p.m. CST.

Here's my guess on ayeembored's answer. he'll have to tell me how close I am. I'm betting he remembered that William Henry Harrison's fatal illness was attributed to giving a long speech in cold weather without an overcoat or hat. That sounds like your typical January Inaugration Day. So Harrison died in February. "G. February 23, 1848" is the only one that fits, and 1848's an election year and everything.

But of course we needed the year
after an election year. That makes E and F (1841 and 1845) the only contenders. And back then, presidents were inaugurated on March 4. (This continued until the 20th Amendment in 1933. FDR was the last president to be inaugurated on March 4 and then the first to be inaugurated on January 20.) Since Harrison croaked after a month in office, "E. April 4, 1841" is the winner.

Finally immaf proves the next casualty in The Madison-Monroe Confusion. (Does that sound like an episode of The Big Bang Theory?) Or maybe he just figured that if Madison was president before Monroe, he'd have had the common decency to die before him as well. Notwithstanding all that, it was Monroe who died on July 4, 1831.


UNUSED ANSWERS
D. James Madison - June 28, 1836
E. William Henry Harrison - April 4, 1841
G. John Quincy Adams - February 23, 1848
I. Martin Van Buren - July 24, 1862

For those of you who sheeped up with Old Tippecanoe on Category 2, 7, or 9, this would have been the place to use him. (Well, not if all of you did it.) I explain the math up above.

STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 10
goforthetie 12 (2+1+0+0+2+3+1+1+1+1)
xxaaaxx 21 (3+1+3+1+0+5+1+2+4+1)
econgator 22 (2+4+1+0+0+3+5+1+5+1)
DadofTwins 22 (0+1+9+0+1+5+2+1+1+2)
Bamaman 23 (0+5+1+4+1+2+1+2+4+3)
Woof 24 (4+3+2+4+1+2+4+3+0+1)
Vanya 26 (1+4+4+1+8+1+2+4+1+0)
mitchparov 27 (1+4+3+6+2+0+2+4+5+0)
jeff6286 28 (3+5+0+6+2+5+1+1+4+1)
MarkBarrett 31 (3+4+2+3+1+5+5+4+1+3)
gamawire 36 (2+5+3+6+2+2+2+4+10+0)
plasticene 36 (9+1+0+3+0+1+5+3+5+9)
cheezguyty 37 (3+5+2+6+8+5+1+4+2+1)
Peggles 39 (4+3+4+1+0+4+1+9+10+3)
ayeembored 39 (2+5+4+8+0+4+4+3+0+9)
barandall800 40 (1+4+3+4+8+2+10+0+5+3)
immaf 41 (4+1+2+0+8+3+5+4+5+9)
Paucle 41 (3+4+2+3+8+4+10+0+4+3)
Rackme32 44 (1+3+4+6+8+4+10+4+4+0)
amorris525 46 (3+4+3+3+8+0+10+3+10+2)
debramc 52 (4+4+3+6+8+1+10+4+6+6)

Goforthetie continues his combination of an impressive knowledge base with uncanny selections. He's running away with this game.

Xxaaaxx's singleton for using George Washington here breaks the tie for second place. Eat your hearts out, DadofTwins and Bamaman. And Woof's singleton with Jefferson moves him a little closer to placing.

Gamawire, amorris525, and ayeembored have yet to score their first singleton. Ayeembored did snag a 0 with a TRICKY DICK on number 5. And Paucle's only two singletons got GROUNDHOGged to a 2- and a 3-pointer.
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immaf
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by immaf »

Finally immaf proves the next casualty in The Madison-Monroe Confusion.
No, there was no confusion. I honestly thought Madison was the OTHER president (besides Adams and Jefferson) to die on July 4th.

Ah well, at least this puts me close-to-last, where I belong.

(BTW, although it is not obvious from my handle, "she" is the appropriate pronoun for me.)
Teems with quiet fun.
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by gamawire »

opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 9

9. AND AFTER

INCORRECT ANSWERS (10)

J. John Adams - gamawire

John Quincy was John Adams' son, not his grandson.
Yeah, I know. Don't know what happened - realized what I had done right after I sent this in, but that was a little too late! Oh, well, at least I was my normal middle of the pack when it happened and not in the lead!
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -- Seneca
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by plasticene »

opusthepenguin wrote:Ouch. Plasticene picked the wrong 1862 date for Tyler's death. Sorry, dude, but your comeback just flatlined. I'm calling it. Time of Death, 12:13 p.m. CST.
It's okay. In my alternate alternate scenario, I cheated and looked up when John Tyler died. Woo-hoo! I'm tied for pretend pretend third with DadofTwins! (econgator falls into a tie for pretend pretend fifth, having pretend matched me on this question.) Too bad I'm a pretend cheater.
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

plasticene wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ouch. Plasticene picked the wrong 1862 date for Tyler's death. Sorry, dude, but your comeback just flatlined. I'm calling it. Time of Death, 12:13 p.m. CST.
It's okay. In my alternate alternate scenario, I cheated and looked up when John Tyler died. Woo-hoo! I'm tied for pretend pretend third with DadofTwins! (econgator falls into a tie for pretend pretend fifth, having pretend matched me on this question.) Too bad I'm a pretend cheater.
That's the spirit!

It's also an indicator of how truly impressive goforthetie's performance has been so far. Even in your dreams, you're only taking second. :P
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by goforthetie »

opusthepenguin wrote: F. Andrew Jackson - June 8, 1845 (1)
goforthetie

F. TRICKY DICK - April 22, 1994 (1)
cheezguyty

Hey, cheezguyty, you've got to admit it's really impressive that goforthetie knew that. Even if he did stick you with a point.
I didn't, really, more of a process-of-elimination guess. I knew Washington, Harrison, and the three July 4 deaths. I fingered Tyler as the Confederate, so he must have been one of the '62ers, and Van Buren as the Free Soil candidate (I guessed that was in 1848 or later; 1844 seemed too soon after his ouster in 1841) so he was probably the other. 1835 was too early for Jackson, so I concluded that was Madison, and that left 1845/48 for Jackson and John Quincy Adams. I figured JQA did so much stuff after he was president, and he came from long-lived stock, and Jackson always seemed like an older president anyway (given his portrait and the fact that he was a general in 1812), so I decided they probably died in reverse order. Distinguishing between the two 1862 deaths was beyond me, though - nice job, econ!
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by DadofTwins »

plasticene wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ouch. Plasticene picked the wrong 1862 date for Tyler's death. Sorry, dude, but your comeback just flatlined. I'm calling it. Time of Death, 12:13 p.m. CST.
It's okay. In my alternate alternate scenario, I cheated and looked up when John Tyler died. Woo-hoo! I'm tied for pretend pretend third with DadofTwins! (econgator falls into a tie for pretend pretend fifth, having pretend matched me on this question.) Too bad I'm a pretend cheater.
Except for the fact that I'm living in an alternate pretend universe where I know as much about the alphabet as I do about Presidents, and I'm sitting in a comfortable solo pretend second place, 5 points clear of the logjam for third.

Delusions . . . I've had a few . . .
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 11

11. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE - Name the only president on our list of whom the following can be said
  1. First (and only) president who did not speak English as his first language
  2. First president born after July 4, 1776
  3. First president inaugurated in Washington D.C.
  4. First president to have a middle name
  5. First president to have been a senator prior to his presidency
  6. First president to live in the Executive Mansion (later called The White House)
  7. First sitting president to have his photograph taken
  8. First president to have impeachment proceedings begun against him
  9. Only president to win with fewer electoral votes than his opponent
  10. Gave the longest inaugural address in US history (cough)
  11. Held record as longest-living president until the 21st century
  12. Only president elected unanimously by the electoral college
  13. Only president to pay off national debt
  14. Shortest president at 5'4"
A. Martin Van Buren - First (and only) president who did not speak English as his first language (5)
MarkBarrett (times a GROUNDHOG of 2 = 10 points)
econgator (times a GROUNDHOG of 2 = 10 points)
immaf
debramc
mitchparov

Who would've predicted this sheep? I expected a more even distribution among several contenders.

F. John Adams - First president to live in the Executive Mansion (later called The White House) (2)
goforthetie
xxaaaxx

I. John Quincy Adams - Only president to win with fewer electoral votes than his opponent (2)
DadofTwins
jeff6286

Other presidents have lost the popular vote but won the Electoral College. Only JQA failed to get the most electoral votes and won the presidency anyway. If you didn't know this was possible, you need to brush up on your Twelfth Amendment.

In 1824, four candidates received electoral votes:

Andrew Jackson 102
John Quincy Adams 82
William H. Crawford 40
Henry Clay 37

As you can see, no candidate received an outright majority. In such cases, the Twelfth Amendment specifies that the House of Representatives will choose the new president from among the three top contenders. (Actually, it specifies the choice shall be made "from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three". So if there's a tie for third, I guess they're both out. And if there's a three-way or greater tie for second, I guess the number one guy is in. With a three-way tie for first, they're all in. With 261 electors in 1824, there was no possibility of a 4-, 5-, 6-, 7-, or 8-way tie. With more candidates, they could've had a 9-way tie, a contingency for which the Twelfth Amendment makes no provision. Today, with 538 electors, our position is much more stable. 538 factors into 269x2 with 269 being a prime number. So there is the possibility of a 2-way tie, which the Twelfth Amendment can deal with. And there is the possibility of a 269-way or 538-way tie, by which point our nation is so divided that having a rule to address the technicality won't help much.)

So Clay was out. And in the interim, Crawford had suffered a stroke. That combined with his distant third made him a non-factor. It was down to Jackson and Adams. Jackson felt his strong plurality made him a shoo-in. But Henry Clay threw his support behind John Quincy Adams and the House elected Adams on the first ballot. Adams then appointed Clay as his Secretary of State. Jackson and his supporters accused the pair of making a "Corrupt Bargain". But what could they do?

Well, for starters, they could come back in 1828 and have Jackson whomp Quincy outright--178 electoral votes to 83. Then, if they still needed to work off some of that agression four years later, they could have Jackson whomp Henry Clay--219 to 49. Don't mess with Old Hickory.


J. William Henry Harrison - Gave the longest inaugural address in US history (cough) (2)
ayeembored (times a GROUNDHOG of 2 = 4 points)
barandall800

In cold, wet weather. Without a hat or overcoat. It took almost two hours. And that was AFTER Daniel Webster had helped him trim some of the material. More than one-quarter of one percent of his presidency was spent on opening remarks. It wasn't until three weeks later that he fell ill, but why let that get in the way of a good story?

N.James Madison - Shortest president at 5'4" (2)
Peggles
Vanya

D. John Quincy Adams - First president to have a middle name (1)
cheezguyty

Sometimes the obvious answer is right. (Just not when we're talking about the Monroe Doctrine.

K. John Adams - Held record as longest-living president until the 21st century (1)
Paucle

Adams lived 90 years and 247 days, a record he held until Ronald Reagan passed that mark in 2001. Reagan then held the record, peaking at 93 years and 120 days, until Gerald Ford passed that age in 2006 and died 45 days later.

Adams will remain in the top 3 until at least February 26, 2015 when George H. W. Bush hopes to edge him out. If Bush doesn't make it, Carter could steal the third spot from Adams 110 days later on June 4, 2015.

If neither one lives that long, Adams can rest easy (so to speak) until 2037, provided we don't elect anyone born before 1936 between now and then. Unless Ron Paul can make a stunning comeback, I'd say that ship has sailed.


B. Martin Van Buren - First president born after July 4, 1776 (1)
gamawire

A word on the wording. Martin Van Buren is usually cited as the first president born an American citizen. I found that claim to be defensible, but also challengeable. Van Buren was, after all, born before the end of the Revolutionary War. So at the time, his citizenship was uncertain. Under the principle that the winners get to write the history, we can say in retrospect that he wasn't a British subject.

But what was he? He was a citizen of the United States as defined under the Articles of Confederation. That entity is arguably distinct from the United States as defined by the Constitution. After all, the Articles of Confederation provided for amendment only by unanimous consent. Rhode Island did not consent. So what the 12 states did in ratifying a new Constitution and electing George Washington may have been illegal under the terms of the Articles. Maybe as far as the Articles were concerned, "The United States of America" in 1789 consisted of Rhode Island. The other 12 states had seceded to form a different country (also called "The United States of America").

Then, in 1790, Rhode Island bowed to the
fait accompli, ratified the new Constitution, and accepted the already-elected President Washington. Does that mean they left the old country and joined the new one? Or did their tardy action make the consent at last unanimous and therefore retroactively legal under the Articles?

I'm sure arguments could be made on both sides and with varying agendas. Those who wrote and ratified the new Constitution seemed to think of that document's "United States" as a continuing entity rather than a new creation. And, as we noted, the winners get to write the history. So on the whole, I'd say Van Buren was a U.S. Citizen.

But I could be wrong. And even if I'm right, I wanted to avoid any arguments for John Tyler as the first president who was
truly born a U.S. citizen. "First president born after July 4, 1776" sidesteps all the issues while still teasing out the correct answer. Whether you learned that Van Buren was born "not a British subject", "an American citizen", or even "a U.S. citizen", that date should get you there.

SLICK WILLIE - First Baby Boomer President (1)
Bamaman

HONEST ABE - First President to be assassinated (0)
amorris525

INCORRECT ANSWERS (10)
M. James Madison - Rackme32 (times a GROUNDHOG of 2 = 20 points)
N. James Monroe - plasticene
C. John Adams - Woof

Rackme32 incorrectly identifies Madison as the only president to pay off the national debt. (It was Andrew Jackson.)

Plasticene continues his downward spiral with a second dip into the Madison-Monroe confusion pool. It was Madison who was the shortest pres. at 5'4". James Monroe was 6 feet tall. (Surprised me, too.) Plasticene, if only you'd put Monroe for number 1 and Madison here.

And Woof rounds out the losses by misidentifying John Adams as the first president inaugurated in D.C. Adams didn't move there until after his inauguration, making Jefferson the correct answer.


UNUSED ANSWERS
C. Thomas Jefferson - First president inaugurated in Washington D.C.
E. James Monroe - First president to have been a senator prior to his presidency
G. William Henry Harrison - First sitting president to have his photograph taken
H. John Tyler - First president to have impeachment proceedings begun against him
L. George Washington - Only president elected unanimously by the electoral college
M. Andrew Jackson - Only president to pay off national debt
TRICKY DICK - Only president to resign

How many of you knew that fact about George? How many of you wish you'd saved your George for this question?

It turns out there's a dispute about whether the photograph of William Henry Harrison is a photograph of the man himself or of a painted portrait. So I'm glad this clue went unused and there was another clue for which Harrison was the unambiguously correct answer.



STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 11
goforthetie 14 (2+1+0+0+2+3+1+1+1+1+2)
xxaaaxx 23 (3+1+3+1+0+5+1+2+4+1+2)
DadofTwins 24 (0+1+9+0+1+5+2+1+1+2+2)
Bamaman 24 (0+5+1+4+1+2+1+2+4+3+1)
Vanya 28 (1+4+4+1+8+1+2+4+1+0+2)
jeff6286 30 (3+5+0+6+2+5+1+1+4+1+2)
econgator 32 (2+4+1+0+0+3+5+1+5+1+10)
mitchparov 32 (1+4+3+6+2+0+2+4+5+0+5)
Woof 34 (4+3+2+4+1+2+4+3+0+1+10)
gamawire 37 (2+5+3+6+2+2+2+4+10+0+1)
cheezguyty 38 (3+5+2+6+8+5+1+4+2+1+1)
Peggles 41 (4+3+4+1+0+4+1+9+10+3+2)
MarkBarrett 41 (3+4+2+3+1+5+5+4+1+3+10)
Paucle 42 (3+4+2+3+8+4+10+0+4+3+1)
barandall800 42 (1+4+3+4+8+2+10+0+5+3+2)
ayeembored 43 (2+5+4+8+0+4+4+3+0+9+4)
immaf 46 (4+1+2+0+8+3+5+4+5+9+5)
amorris525 46 (3+4+3+3+8+0+10+3+10+2+0)
plasticene 46 (9+1+0+3+0+1+5+3+5+9+10)
debramc 57 (4+4+3+6+8+1+10+4+6+6+5)
Rackme32 64 (1+3+4+6+8+4+10+4+4+0+20)

Gamawire scores his first singleton. Only Ayeembored and amorris525 have yet to join that club.

Goforthetie has been dominating for so long now that this story gets bumped to paragraph 2.
Last edited by opusthepenguin on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

goforthetie wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote: F. Andrew Jackson - June 8, 1845 (1)
goforthetie

F. TRICKY DICK - April 22, 1994 (1)
cheezguyty

Hey, cheezguyty, you've got to admit it's really impressive that goforthetie knew that. Even if he did stick you with a point.
I didn't, really, more of a process-of-elimination guess. I knew Washington, Harrison, and the three July 4 deaths. I fingered Tyler as the Confederate, so he must have been one of the '62ers, and Van Buren as the Free Soil candidate (I guessed that was in 1848 or later; 1844 seemed too soon after his ouster in 1841) so he was probably the other. 1835 was too early for Jackson, so I concluded that was Madison, and that left 1845/48 for Jackson and John Quincy Adams. I figured JQA did so much stuff after he was president, and he came from long-lived stock, and Jackson always seemed like an older president anyway (given his portrait and the fact that he was a general in 1812), so I decided they probably died in reverse order. Distinguishing between the two 1862 deaths was beyond me, though - nice job, econ!
Ah. So basically you got lucky with a wild guess. :D
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by Bamaman »

opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 10

10. THE PLUMAGE DON'T ENTER INTO IT - Name a president who died on the following date
  1. December 14, 1799
  2. July 4, 1826
  3. July 4, 1831
  4. June 28, 1836
  5. April 4, 1841
  6. June 8, 1845
  7. February 23, 1848
  8. January 18, 1862
  9. July 24, 1862
This was pretty much process of elimination for me on this one as well. Washington is obvious and the Adams/Jefferson connection is well known. I knew the three who died on July 4 weren't in order, so that plugs in Monroe. I also knew JQA lived forever and was in Amistad (Van Buren's term) and later served in the House, so that leaves Madison in 1836. For some odd reason I know Jackson died in 1845, so that plugs in JQA in 1848, while we know Harrison was 1841. But like the others, I did not know which 1862 was which.
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Woof
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by Woof »

opusthepenguin wrote:
And Woof rounds out the losses by misidentifying John Adams as the first president inaugurated in D.C. Adams didn't move there until after his inauguration, making Jefferson the correct answer.
Ouch!!! Done in by a detail! In retrospect, I should have realized that, since I knew that Adams was the correct choice for F, that Jefferson might be the choice for C, but I knew that DC existed in Adams's Presidency and I wasn't sure who the correct answer for M was. Drat and blast!
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xxaaaxx
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by xxaaaxx »

Hmm, I don't seem to be gaining any traction :lol: This is starting to remind me of that Star Trek TD, where I put together probably my best overall performance, and still got dusted by someone who dominated wire-to-wire.
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gamawire
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by gamawire »

opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 11


B. Martin Van Buren - First president born after July 4, 1776 (1)
gamawire

Gamawire scores his first singleton. Only Ayeembored and amorris525 have yet to join that club.



Thanks for mentioning me not having one last time - I think that's how I got this one. And just for the record, I'm a her.
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -- Seneca
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opusthepenguin
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 12

12. FUN FACTS - Name a president from our list of whom the following is true
  1. His face is on Mount Rushmore
  2. He and his hometown are involved in a popular etymology of the word "ok"
  3. He's the one holding the flag in Emanuel Leutze's painting Washington Crossing the Delaware
  4. If you had a bill with this president's face on the front, you could buy a new Apple MacBook. Or two or three. (Note: We're talking face value of the bill here. Don't bug me with rare collector's items that fetch enormous sums.)
  5. He's named in the "Mediocre Presidents" song at Springfield Elementary's Presidents Day pageant
  6. He never went to college
  7. There's a statue of him in New Orleans
  8. He was supposedly affected by a Twenty-Year Curse that lasted until Ronald Reagan exited the presidency on his own steam
  9. Used (and possibly invented) a pedometer to measure how far he went on his walks
  10. He was both nth pres and nth VP (where n is the same number)
  11. He earned both a Bachelor's and Master's degree from Harvard
A. Thomas Jefferson - His face is on Mount Rushmore (3)
Vanya
cheezguyty
mitchparov

You guys are going to be angry when you scoll down to the unused answers.

C. James Monroe - He's the one holding the flag in Emanuel Leutze's painting Washington Crossing the Delaware (2)
econgator
DadofTwins

This is another fact I learned while researching this TD. I'm surprised two (or more) of youknew it.

G. Andrew Jackson - There's a statue of him in New Orleans (2)
ayeembored (times a GROUNDHOG of 4 = 8 points)
immaf

G. TRICKY DICK - Didn't have a Kitchen Cabinet, but did have a Kitchen Debate (8)
Rackme32

What was ayeembored THINKING, using Andrew Jackson for a fourth time like that? Well, it turns out he may not have read the directions as carefully as Rackme32 wishes he had. So ayeembored turns to Rackme32 with a sheepish smile and says, "Mi marmota, su marmota".

J. John Tyler - Was both nth pres and nth VP (where n is the same number) (1)
jeff6286

I totally expected this one to go begging. If I'd been a contestant and used a TRICKY DICK on this category, this is the question I'd have tied it to. Mad props to jeff6286 for knowing something so weirdly obscure.

E. John Tyler - Named in the "Mediocre Presidents" song at Springfield Elementary's Presidents Day pageant (1)
goforthetie

This one, on the other hand, I didn't figure for a singleton. Goforthetie has apparently made a deal with Daniel Webster or something.

I can't find a video of the song. But you can listen to it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8jOWWsSb_g#t=03m44s

The song starts at 3'44" in. The link is supposed to take you right there. But if you've got a Flash blocker, like I do, that won't work. You'll just have to advance the video yourself or sit through the other songs.


D. James Madison - If you had a bill with this president's face on the front, you could buy a new Apple MacBook. Or two or three. (1)
Bamaman

Madison appears on the $5,000 bill.

Image

I first learned this trivium when Philip Marlowe came into possession of a 5G-note in
The Long Goodbye. In 1969, the Fed began taking this and other large denomination bills out of circulation. But it is still legal tender. A 2009 Slate article says there are still 342 5-grand bills out there. If you have one, I'll be happy to take it off your hands and give you the equivalent amount in smaller, more spendable denominations.

B. Martin Van Buren - He and his hometown are involved in a popular etymology of the word "ok" (1)
plasticene

In 1963 and '64, Alan Walker Read documented the origin of "ok" as an abbreviation of "oll korrect" or "orl korrect", deliberately humorous corruptions of "all correct". Read further contended that this was part of a larger fad in the late 1830s for abbreviations based on comical misspellings. KY for "know yuse", NS for "nuff said" and the like.

The fad mercifully disappeared and most of the abbreviations died off as well. But before that happened, OK gained some traction in 1840 when Democratic Van Buren supporters gave it a double meaning as "Old Kinderhook", referring to MVB's birthplace, Kinderhook, NY. Other Van Buren supporters formed "OK" clubs as the term began getting press. Detractors attempted to attach other meanings suchs as "out of kash" and "orfully konfused" without success. OK as a term of general approbation was here to stay.

That's the story, anyway. It has its detractors. But I think the supporters outnumber them.


I.Thomas Jefferson - Used (and possibly invented) a pedometer to measure how far he went on his walks (1)
Paucle

I. TRICKY DICK - Was sworn in on TWO Bibles (1)
gamawire

Paucle stuck gamawire with a point here. But at least gamawire can reflect with satisfaction that he's no Rackme32.

Regarding the fun fact I stuck in for Tricky Dick here, I'm not making it up. Perhaps he was unaware that two positives do not function in the same way as two negatives.


SLICK WILLIE - Was born with the last name of "Blythe" (3)
Woof
xxaaaxx
barandall800

HONEST ABE - Walked 5 miles to return a coin with his likeness on it (0)
Peggles
MarkBarrett
debramc

INCORRECT ANSWERS (8)
E. Martin Van Buren - amorris525

Although arguably mediocre, Martin Van Buren does not receive a mention in the "Mediocre Presidents" song.

UNUSED ANSWERS
A. George Washington

See? I told you.

E. William Henry Harrison - Named in the "Mediocre Presidents" song at Springfield Elementary's Presidents Day pageant
F. George Washington - Never went to college
F. Andrew Jackson - Never went to college
F. Martin Van Buren - Never went to college
H. William Henry Harrison - Supposedly affected by a Twenty-Year Curse that lasted until Ronald Reagan exited the presidency on his own steam
J. Martin Van Buren - Was both nth pres and nth VP (where n is the same number)
K. John Adams - Earned both a Bachelor's and Master's degree from Harvard
K. John Quincy Adams - Earned both a Bachelor's and Master's degree from Harvard

You all knew about the "Curse of Tippecanoe" or "Tecumseh's Curse", right? It was supposed to affect every president elected in a year evenly divisible by 20. The man elected in that year was doomed to die in office. This held true for William Henry Harrison (1840), Abraham Lincoln (1860), James Garfield (1880), William McKinley (1900), Warren G. Harding (1920), Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1940), and John F. Kennedy (1960). But then Ronald Reagan (1980) survived being shot by John Hinckley. And George W. Bush (2000) survived an attack by a pretzel. I think Tecumseh's not bringing his "A" game anymore.

STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 12
goforthetie 15 (2+1+0+0+2+3+1+1+1+1+2+1)
Bamaman 25 (0+5+1+4+1+2+1+2+4+3+1+1)
DadofTwins 26 (0+1+9+0+1+5+2+1+1+2+2+2)
xxaaaxx 26 (3+1+3+1+0+5+1+2+4+1+2+3)
Vanya 31 (1+4+4+1+8+1+2+4+1+0+2+3)
jeff6286 31 (3+5+0+6+2+5+1+1+4+1+2+1)
econgator 34 (2+4+1+0+0+3+5+1+5+1+10+2)
mitchparov 35 (1+4+3+6+2+0+2+4+5+0+5+3)
Woof 37 (4+3+2+4+1+2+4+3+0+1+10+3)
gamawire 38 (2+5+3+6+2+2+2+4+10+0+1+1)
Peggles 41 (4+3+4+1+0+4+1+9+10+3+2+0)
MarkBarrett 41 (3+4+2+3+1+5+5+4+1+3+10+0)
cheezguyty 41 (3+5+2+6+8+5+1+4+2+1+1+3)
Paucle 43 (3+4+2+3+8+4+10+0+4+3+1+1)
barandall800 45 (1+4+3+4+8+2+10+0+5+3+2+3)
plasticene 47 (9+1+0+3+0+1+5+3+5+9+10+1)
immaf 48 (4+1+2+0+8+3+5+4+5+9+5+2)
ayeembored 51 (2+5+4+8+0+4+4+3+0+9+4+8)
amorris525 54 (3+4+3+3+8+0+10+3+10+2+0+8)
debramc 57 (4+4+3+6+8+1+10+4+6+6+5+0)
Rackme32 72 (1+3+4+6+8+4+10+4+4+0+20+8)


At this point, goforthetie pretty much can't lose. Yeah, we can dream that his last answer will combine a massive sheep with a GROUNDHOG doubler. These things can happen. Some guy won $50,000 on February 5th by betting $1,000 that the Giants would make the first Super Bowl score with a safety.

Realistically, we're looking at a fight for the silver and the bronze with Bamaman, DadofTwins, and xxaaaxx showing the most promise. But Vanya and jeff6286 have a definite shot.
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jeff6286
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by jeff6286 »

opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 12

12. FUN FACTS - Name a president from our list of whom the following is true
J. John Tyler - Was both nth pres and nth VP (where n is the same number) (1)
jeff6286

I totally expected this one to go begging. If I'd been a contestant and used a TRICKY DICK on this category, this is the question I'd have tied it to. Mad props to jeff6286 for knowing something so weirdly obscure.
I actually used a bit of trickery on this one. I knew that Jackson had two VPs, and I was thinking that Jefferson had two as I didn't think Aaron Burr served for a full 8 years, but I really wasn't sure of how many VPs there were under Madison and Monroe. However, I realized that the list of VPs in question #6 contained exactly 10 names, and assuming that you listed all possible options, that would mean that Tyler had to have been the 10th VP, and since I knew he was the 10th President, that had to make him a correct answer. In hindsight, I could have then worked backwards from there and also determined that Van Buren was both the 8th VP and the 8th President, which would have given me a second possible answer, but that didn't occur to me at the time.

Looking at the list of VPs now, I realize how many unusual circumstances there were in that office in the early 19th century. After Burr (#3) served for Jefferson's first term, George Clinton (#4) served for 4 years under Jefferson, and then almost 4 years under Madison, before passing away in April of 1812. Elbridge Gerry (#5) then took over at the start of Madison's second term, lasting only from March 1813 to November 1814 before he too passed, leaving the office vacant for more than two years. Daniel Tompkins (#6) broke that unfortunate streak by surviving for all 8 years of Monroe's presidency, then John C. Calhoun (#7)served 4 years under both John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson, although he resigned in December of 1832, leaving the office once again vacant for a couple of months. Van Buren (#8) then served for Jackson's second term, and Richard Mentor Johnson (#9) served for Van Buren's 4 years as President. Which brings us to John Tyler (#10), who spent a month as VP before Harrison's death left the office vacant for nearly 4 full years.

Anyone know what would have happened if a Senate vote had been tied during a period of Vice Presidential vacancy, which seems to have been pretty common and often quite lengthy prior to 1974?
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opusthepenguin
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by opusthepenguin »

jeff6286 wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:THE BIG REVEAL - CATEGORY 12

12. FUN FACTS - Name a president from our list of whom the following is true
J. John Tyler - Was both nth pres and nth VP (where n is the same number) (1)
jeff6286

I totally expected this one to go begging. If I'd been a contestant and used a TRICKY DICK on this category, this is the question I'd have tied it to. Mad props to jeff6286 for knowing something so weirdly obscure.
I actually used a bit of trickery on this one. I knew that Jackson had two VPs, and I was thinking that Jefferson had two as I didn't think Aaron Burr served for a full 8 years, but I really wasn't sure of how many VPs there were under Madison and Monroe. However, I realized that the list of VPs in question #6 contained exactly 10 names, and assuming that you listed all possible options, that would mean that Tyler had to have been the 10th VP, and since I knew he was the 10th President, that had to make him a correct answer. In hindsight, I could have then worked backwards from there and also determined that Van Buren was both the 8th VP and the 8th President, which would have given me a second possible answer, but that didn't occur to me at the time.
That's some TOM, that TOM-22.
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mitchparov
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Re: TD 145: Presidential Groundhog Day

Post by mitchparov »

jeff6286 wrote: Anyone know what would have happened if a Senate vote had been tied during a period of Vice Presidential vacancy, which seems to have been pretty common and often quite lengthy prior to 1974?
Huh. That's actually a really complicated problem.

From Article I, Sec. 3:

"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but
shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

The Senate shall choose their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore,
in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of
President of the United States."

The most constitutional solution would probably have been for the President pre tempore of the Senate to cast two votes--one as Senator from his or her home state, and one as President of the Senate.

Though this also raises some interesting problems, of course. And in reality, the 25th Amendment hasn't actually made this any easier (it probably hasn't changed the problem at all, actually).

This would make a pretty good law review article. If I ever decide not to be really lazy, jeff6286, I'd love to think about writing it...
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