Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Vanya
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Re: Pumping biodiesel into your favorite charcarodon

Post by Vanya »

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
The reason's easy: just as in the U.S., gas and Diesel nozzles have different diameters and won't fit into the inappropriate car receptacle.
Wrong again! Only Diesel for trucks has larger nozzles. Besides, you could put the smaller one (gas) in the filler for the larger one by mistake.
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heisman65
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by heisman65 »

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
heisman65 wrote:Here's Exhibit A in showing how hard the games were this week. Even Alex laments the recent dearth of multiple-game champs. That first round seemed particularly hard (billow? Redstone? grubstake? green for diesel (I guessed ethanol)?), the second not so much, except for that killer Numerical Titles category and Mariel Hemingway (although Manhattan is one of my all-time fave films). Also, not sure how you were supposed to get to Hawaii by the info given. Could've been Florida.

Don't get me started on Pig Latin Latin. I think it's a bit much to assume that everyone knows the rules of Pig Latin. All three contestants were probably relieved they didn't have to answer any more of those questions. And I'll be impressed if anyone gets that FJ.
Redstone was an indirect reference to the red stone of Alabama. Herr Doktor Von Braun & co. did their work on the missile (later used for Explorer 1 and, in a stretch version, for the suborbital Mercury launches) at Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville, prior to the construction of Marshall Space Flight Center. They (or the US Army) used the base's name for the missile's name.

I went with the National Air and Space Museum because that's been the top-visited museum more often than not since it's been opened. I was wondering (with the "single" reference) if one had to be specific with the one on the National Mall, or with the "annex" near Dulles Airport. I put it down, but wasn't sure how confident I was; because it was specific to the two years, I was wondering if there was some new museum near the old World Trade Center site in Manhattan.
Yeah, yeah, I get that Redstone refers to Alabama (it was in the clue!), and I know all about Werner von Braun and Huntsville, yadda, yadda, yadda. I've just never come across the term Redstone Rocket. There are only two other references to it in the J! Archive that I could find and both times Redstone is in the actual clue, not the answer (BTW, the answer to one was von Braun, the other the Pershing missile). That seems to make it obscure in my book, and I guess fair game at $1,000. Seems more like $2,000 material, though.
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Volante
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

thejeopardyfan wrote:
econgator wrote: For the Jules Verne clue, I said What is 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, thinking 5 referred to the number of words in the title. Judges?
I counted mine wrong!
I counted mine as correct; we weren't given instructions to what the number in the clue meant, and when you think Jules Verne and 'numbers' you coin flip either 80 or 20,000. 20,000 has 5 digits. Makes sense. *shrug*

I'm not going to penalize myself for not knowing what they intended. It's their job to be clear. (Maybe they outsourced clue writing to the FCAT team?)
Paucle wrote: The only significant thing happening the last couple years I could think of that people may want to "touch" was the demise of NASA's Shuttle/Orbiter program, so my guess was... "NASA's Space Museum."? Just totally blanked on the Smithsonian National Air and Space because after all, why should I remember that? It's not like it has anything cool, like the Enterprise or anything.
Gotta tell you though, even had I thought of it? I'd've assumed it was a ridiculously long shot.
It still has the Enterprise, but not for much longer. That's going to the USS Intrepid soon. :mrgreen:
dhkendall wrote:
StevenH wrote:I got lucky on Goring.
Nit, it's either Göring or Goering (the latter is preferred in English), Goring is what you don't want Pamplona bulls to do to you.

(And I've always considered the #2 man in the Third Reich as Goebbels, but I know that he committed suicide the day after Hitler did (he was technically Chancellor of Germany for that day, but I don't think he knew) so anything having to do with post WWII excludes him.
And more annoying, Donitz is the one who ended up "succeeding" Hitler.

Perhaps it would've been prudent to have remembered the ditty set to the Bogey March:
"Hitler has only got one ball, Goering has two but they are small..."

I got the Air and Space Museum. The "single museum" bit hinted to me it was one of a collection of museums. Why else would you explicitly ask for one? Isn't every museum by itself? Not if you say "Smithsonian!" After that it was picking between Amer. History, Natural Hist. and Air & Space. I vaguely remembered that A&S probably had the highest attendance, plus it's the coolest of the three. Come on, you walk in, and BAM! Apollo 11 and a (really nasty by now) moon rock. Took a lot of work to get to though, IMO. While I got it, I'm not proud of my get.

Addendum: Apparently the Natural History branch held the record for 2009.
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Spheniscus »

Hi, I am Evan Nolan who was in the game last night.

I have seen a lot of the comments about the Final Jeopardy question and how it was unfair. What you guys did not see, was after we got the category but before we got the clue, a judge came up and told us to be "VERY SPECIFIC" in our answers. To me, before the clue even came out, that meant the answer was probably one of the Smithsonian Museums. My incorrect answer was based more on knowing too much since I lived in DC from 2007-2010 and knew that the Air and Space Museum is generally the most visited of the Smithsonians, BUT the Museum of American History had been closed for six months and reopened sometime within that time period. So I went with that instead.

So ultimately, we did have some guidance, even if you didn't see it at home.

If you have any other questions about last night's show. I am around all day and would be happy to answer any of them.

I'm glad to see you are all such fans of the show. Sorry I didn't make it to day 2, I had a few more good stories to pass on.
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jeff6286
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Re: Pumping biodiesel into your favorite charcarodon

Post by jeff6286 »

Vanya wrote:
Sage on the Hudson wrote:
The reason's easy: just as in the U.S., gas and Diesel nozzles have different diameters and won't fit into the inappropriate car receptacle.
Wrong again! Only Diesel for trucks has larger nozzles. Besides, you could put the smaller one (gas) in the filler for the larger one by mistake.
So maybe they should make the Diesel nozzles triangular? That way no one can put the wrong hose in the wrong hole. Sorry if that sounded dirty.
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Spheniscus »

So I tried posting a little while ago, but apparently it didn't go through.

This is Evan, who was in last night's game. And I can tell you that between the category reveal and the actual asking of the question, a judge did come up to us and tell us to be "very specific in our answer". To me, this automatically pointed to a Smithsonian. So we did have some guidance.

Having gone to American University and lived in DC again from 2007-2010, I knew that the Air and Space Museum was GENERALLY the most visited Smithsonian. BUT, the American History Museum had been closed for six months during my time down there and reopened in I think 2009, so I thought that might have some effect on attendance. Mentally flipping a coin, I went with the wrong Smithsonian.

Ultimately, the clue that has been haunting me for the past four months (we filmed back in December) was the American Tourister question. I knew the answer to that. But when Mary rang in and said "Samsonite" I reread the clue and realized she was wrong. Unfortunately, having just reread the clue I came out with "What is National Tourister?" instead of "What is American Tourister?" $3,200 swing.

Had I gotten that right, I wouldn't have bet as much on the Daily Double and then still getting that wrong (Leo DiCaprio just did not occur to me) I would have done a better job ringing in afterwards. You may have noticed I never got back in again after missing the Daily Double. It was not for lack of effort. I think I knew I needed to catch up and was locking myself out by jumping the gun.

Anyway, I had a great time and wish I had done better. But what are you going to do? You take the questions they give you and do your best with them.
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nserven
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by nserven »

debramc wrote:Diesel handles have been green for a long time everywhere I've ever bought gas in the US. I was surprised the contestants even paused before getting that one, and even more surprised that most folks here didn't know it.
It never even occurred to me that such things were color-coded. (Probably because I don't buy diesel gas, though where I go the deisel pump stations have a different shape anyway.) Certainly useful to know, and similar, I suppose, to orange becoming the de facto color for decaffeinated coffee (was that standard set by Sanka, or before?)

I was at the Smithsonian Air & Space a few months ago and still had no clue on FJ.
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Miss Mellie
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Miss Mellie »

Volante wrote:The "single museum" bit hinted to me it was one of a collection of museums. Why else would you explicitly ask for one? Isn't every museum by itself? Not if you say "Smithsonian!"
Unfortunately, I had the opposite interpretation of "single museum." I took it to mean that the one they were looking for isn't part of a collection but is rather a stand-alone museum. So, I dismissed all Smithsonian institutions. Along with Michelle, I guessed the Metropolitan Museum of Art because I knew the Alexander McQueen exhibit drew gangbuster attendance numbers last year.
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Magna
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Magna »

Volante wrote:
thejeopardyfan wrote:
econgator wrote: For the Jules Verne clue, I said What is 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, thinking 5 referred to the number of words in the title. Judges?
I counted mine wrong!
I counted mine as correct; we weren't given instructions to what the number in the clue meant, and when you think Jules Verne and 'numbers' you coin flip either 80 or 20,000. 20,000 has 5 digits. Makes sense. *shrug*

I'm not going to penalize myself for not knowing what they intended. It's their job to be clear. (Maybe they outsourced clue writing to the FCAT team?)
I think they couldn't provide an explanation for this one because it was right next door to the oddball Pig Latin category that required its own explanation. The better solution would have been to move one of the categories to some other board and replace it with a straightforward category. This comes of the writers being too gimmicky, imo. And fwiw, I agree the first clue was too ambiguous.
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debramc
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by debramc »

heisman65 wrote:So not only do I have to learn about all your presidents and your history, but I have to study gas pumps, too? Seems fair to me …
Sorry, but the show is skewed more to the largely US audience, and largely US contestants. They do have token Canadian categories and random questions now and then, but the point is, why is it unfair if a clue is not known to every single person? I'm not surprised Canadian boardies didn't get the diesel question (I almost clarified that but thought it was self-evident) just as I'm not surprised I miss some Canadian questions. Nobody said the show had to be fair. It is what it is. Nobody knows every single question. Deal with it.
heisman65 wrote:...Don't get me started on Pig Latin Latin. I think it's a bit much to assume that everyone knows the rules of Pig Latin. ...
Same thing here. Not everyone knows Spanish, or German, or (regular) Latin, or even their favorite, French. Yet they regularly have categories that require knowledge of these. Is this unfair? Why would pig latin be any different? If every single clue were gettable by every single person, it would boil down to nothing more than a buzzer contest, or who's got the least performance anxiety. And while those are legitimate aspects of the game, it would be no fun if they were the only thing.
[/soapbox]
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Volante
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

jeff6286 wrote: So maybe they should make the Diesel nozzles triangular? That way no one can put the wrong hose in the wrong hole. Sorry if that sounded dirty.
NASA could find a way!

Magna wrote:
Volante wrote: I counted mine as correct; we weren't given instructions to what the number in the clue meant, and when you think Jules Verne and 'numbers' you coin flip either 80 or 20,000. 20,000 has 5 digits. Makes sense. *shrug*

I'm not going to penalize myself for not knowing what they intended. It's their job to be clear. (Maybe they outsourced clue writing to the FCAT team?)
I think they couldn't provide an explanation for this one because it was right next door to the oddball Pig Latin category that required its own explanation. The better solution would have been to move one of the categories to some other board and replace it with a straightforward category. This comes of the writers being too gimmicky, imo. And fwiw, I agree the first clue was too ambiguous.
That or have a very unambiguous first clue.

Joseph Heller: 22.
Ray Bradbury: 451.
Or heck, Jules Verne: 20,000.
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Magna »

davey wrote:I'm annoyed at the contestants for avoiding Pig Latin Latin...sounded like fun, and couldn't have been harder than the clues we saw...
Based on the explanation Alex gave, it's possible they thought the entire response had to be in Pig Latin (not just the key word). I'd probably have gone for it, but I could see someone being reluctant to try to risk embarrassment and loss of money based on their ability to phrase a whole question in Pig Latin.
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Volante
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Magna wrote:
davey wrote:I'm annoyed at the contestants for avoiding Pig Latin Latin...sounded like fun, and couldn't have been harder than the clues we saw...
Based on the explanation Alex gave, it's possible they thought the entire response had to be in Pig Latin (not just the key word). I'd probably have gone for it, but I could see someone being reluctant to try to risk embarrassment and loss of money based on their ability to phrase a whole question in Pig Latin.
Possible if they never touched the category, but we were shown the first clue and the judges accepted "What is apiensay?" (sapien).
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Magna »

Volante wrote:Possible if they never touched the category, but we were shown the first clue and the judges accepted "What is apiensay?" (sapien).
True, but didn't they leave the category until kind of late? (I don't remember exactly, but that was my impression.)
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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Volante wrote:That or have a very unambiguous first clue.

Joseph Heller: 22.
Ray Bradbury: 451.
Or heck, Jules Verne: 20,000.
At least they didn't ask for James Grady's "______ Days of the Condor." That would have been bottom-row worthy.
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

They did the top clue early - one player muffed it, one got it, but she still veered away like an ellowyay ellybay, and they never went back to it...
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Magna »

One more gripe about the writing: the grubstake clue was actually about miners' lingo, and doesn't really fit "Cowboy Talk." They should either have called it "Old West Talk" or else just given clues about terms used by cowboys. There's a wealth of things they could have asked about.
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heisman65
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by heisman65 »

debramc wrote:
heisman65 wrote:So not only do I have to learn about all your presidents and your history, but I have to study gas pumps, too? Seems fair to me …
Sorry, but the show is skewed more to the largely US audience, and largely US contestants. They do have token Canadian categories and random questions now and then, but the point is, why is it unfair if a clue is not known to every single person? I'm not surprised Canadian boardies didn't get the diesel question (I almost clarified that but thought it was self-evident) just as I'm not surprised I miss some Canadian questions. Nobody said the show had to be fair. It is what it is. Nobody knows every single question. Deal with it.
heisman65 wrote:...Don't get me started on Pig Latin Latin. I think it's a bit much to assume that everyone knows the rules of Pig Latin. ...
Same thing here. Not everyone knows Spanish, or German, or (regular) Latin, or even their favorite, French. Yet they regularly have categories that require knowledge of these. Is this unfair? Why would pig latin be any different? If every single clue were gettable by every single person, it would boil down to nothing more than a buzzer contest, or who's got the least performance anxiety. And while those are legitimate aspects of the game, it would be no fun if they were the only thing.
[/soapbox]
Touchy, touchy. I meant my comment to be completely tongue in cheek (I gladly learned all about your history and prez, FWIW), but I guess without the help of an emoticon (emotion-con?) or a LOL it didn't come across. And, yes, I can deal with the difficulty of the material just fine, thank you, and I understand how Jeopardy! works, too, thanks. I just felt that Pig Latin is pretty obscure, and many agreed with me. Certainly it's much, much more obscure than French, Italian or Spanish, one of which most of us learned at one time or another. And I don't see a lot of Americans here who know anything about green handles and diesel, either.

I'm not asking for the questions to be easy, just for there to be something (an explanation or an tease-out metric) to help us suss out what they're looking for. I don't think that's much to ask for.
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Maybe it's obscure in Anadacay, bub...it also can be learned in about ifteenfay econdssay, on the outside...
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Re: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jkbrat »

kristinsausville wrote:I got to Air & Space Museum pretty quickly by figuring that it's the Smithsonian museum with the most unique, yet universal appeal...
Well, I'm glad that worked for you, but, to be fair, the clue didn't ask for which "Smithsonian" museum has the "most unique, yet universal appeal." Instead it asked for a museum that has "gotten" more visitors during "2010 & 2011" than any other "single museum".

As others have remarked, the Air & Space Museum has perennially been one of the nation's most popular museums, so why specifically mention only two years of popularity when doing so strongly implies that this popularity did not exist in other years (leading people to think about either brand-new museums or museums marking significant anniversaries in the 2010-2011 timeframe)?

I fear with continued writing of this quality viewership will eventually begin to suffer because there's simply no sense of accomplishment on getting a clue like this correct (it's more like "I took a guess and got lucky") and there's definitely a sense of frustration in not getting it correct (since there doesn't appear to be a path to figure out this clue given the information contained therein). And it really only adds insult to injury when Alex makes a "well, duh" comment implying that the contestants should have known it because we're in the "Space Age" (um, haven't we been in the Space Age since like the 60s, not just in the specific years "2010 & 2011"?)
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