Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

marpocky wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:
heisman65 wrote:That first BMS on appendix threw me
I think he should refrain from BMSing except on partial answers. If he BMSes X, then I expect the correct answer to be XY or YX, not a totally different word.

Appendix should've gotten a hesitation and a glance at the judge's table or something, but IMO that is not a BMS towards bibliography. That also threw me big time.
I think that's a flaw in your expectation, more than a fault of Alex's or the show's? A bibliography is indeed part of an appendix, so BMS was appropriate (or at least, a generous alternative to simply ruling against "appendix").
I'm pretty sure that Mr. Trebek wouldn't ask BMS unless his sheet said to ask for it (or if he got a "high sign" from the judges).
TenPoundHammer wrote:I'm surprised dhkendall hasn't said anything to me about the Pinky and the Brain reference in the clue.

Awkward moment there too. Something like: "What is Thinky?" "Yes, Pinky." [jump cut] "Oh snap, he said Thinky and I gave out the answer. Stupid me."
At least he didn't say NARF!!!!!
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

TenPoundHammer wrote:I honestly can't memorize anything related to wars. I wonder if the dreadfully boring Civil War class I took back in college had anything to do with it. We had to slog through a ginormous book that felt bigger than all the Cerebus the Aardvark "phone books" combined, take notes and then get tested on it each week. And with remarkable accuracy, I managed to take notes on everything BUT what we were tested on. Every single test, I'd answer like two questions, look at the other 14 and say "where the bleep was THAT in the book?" Between that and the draconian janitor who proceeded to interrogate me for 30 minutes because he somehow got it in his head that I was stealing office supplies, t was just a dreadful class all around.
marpocky wrote:A bibliography is indeed part of an appendix
News to me. I thought they were different types of thing.

Still, I think appendix should've gotten a pause and a glance at the judges.
I wouldn't say that a bibliography is a part of an appendix. I'd say it's a type of appendix, something appended to a book. Thus, worthy of a BMS. Books often have multiple appendices.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

davey wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:I honestly can't memorize anything related to wars. I wonder if the dreadfully boring Civil War class I took back in college had anything to do with it. We had to slog through a ginormous book that felt bigger than all the Cerebus the Aardvark "phone books" combined, take notes and then get tested on it each week. And with remarkable accuracy, I managed to take notes on everything BUT what we were tested on. Every single test, I'd answer like two questions, look at the other 14 and say "where the bleep was THAT in the book?" Between that and the draconian janitor who proceeded to interrogate me for 30 minutes because he somehow got it in his head that I was stealing office supplies, t was just a dreadful class all around.
marpocky wrote:A bibliography is indeed part of an appendix
News to me. I thought they were different types of thing.

Still, I think appendix should've gotten a pause and a glance at the judges.
I wouldn't say that a bibliography is a part of an appendix. I'd say it's a type of appendix, something appended to a book. Thus, worthy of a BMS. Books often have multiple appendices.
But books can have appendices and have, separately, a bibliography. I just wrote a lengthy article that did exactly that. I wouldn't say that's uncommon. So, yeah, it can be an appendix, but I feel there was something not quite right in the BMS there.
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Re: Just a little needling here

Post by alamble »

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
alamble wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote: Paris was totally foreign to me. Nothing sounded remotely familiar. I didn't know Luxor was a thing outside Vegas, for one.
It's a rather major city in Egypt. The obelisk that stands in Paris originally marked the entrance to the Luxor temple.
The clue was rather misleading, as that obelisk, like the ones in New York and London are best known as "Cleopatra's Needle" (though they predate Egypt's Ptolemaic period by about twelve centuries).
Not really, as that particular nickname hasn't been used in Paris in forever. True of London, however.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

davey wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Awkward moment there too. Something like: "What is Thinky?" "Yes, Pinky." [jump cut] "Oh snap, he said Thinky and I gave out the answer. Stupid me."
But you can't blame Alex. Where the heck did "Thinky" come from? Going against both the TOM and the category...
How does "Thinky" go against the TOM of "brain"? Also, the category's gimmick had not yet been established, since it was the first clue revealed.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrangeSAM »

seaborgium wrote:
davey wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Awkward moment there too. Something like: "What is Thinky?" "Yes, Pinky." [jump cut] "Oh snap, he said Thinky and I gave out the answer. Stupid me."
But you can't blame Alex. Where the heck did "Thinky" come from? Going against both the TOM and the category...
How does "Thinky" go against the TOM of "brain"? Also, the category's gimmick had not yet been established, since it was the first clue revealed.
I thought the category was five-letter words. Did I get that wrong?
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Austin Powers wrote:
davey wrote:
marpocky wrote:A bibliography is indeed part of an appendix

I wouldn't say that a bibliography is a part of an appendix. I'd say it's a type of appendix, something appended to a book. Thus, worthy of a BMS. Books often have multiple appendices.

But books can have appendices and have, separately, a bibliography. I just wrote a lengthy article that did exactly that. I wouldn't say that's uncommon. So, yeah, it can be an appendix, but I feel there was something not quite right in the BMS there.
Oh sure, a bibliography is called a bibliography. I doubt they anticipated the response given. But it's still a kind of appendix, whatever it's called, so I think Alex made the right call.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

OrangeSAM wrote:
seaborgium wrote:How does "Thinky" go against the TOM of "brain"? Also, the category's gimmick had not yet been established, since it was the first clue revealed.
I thought the category was five-letter words. Did I get that wrong?
Brain surely was meant to bring you to Pinky. Changing it to Thinky seems perverse - there's no "Thinky" in Pac-Man either, right? I don't remember it being first. (And I'm a little bummed, because I just went to the archive to check - the game isn't up, but today's is, and the FJ! is already on the front page! Maybe putting it up so early is misjudged...) In any case, the clue gave me an ah hah moment.

All the correct responses in the category were also names for fingers.
Last edited by davey on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 »

seaborgium wrote:
davey wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Awkward moment there too. Something like: "What is Thinky?" "Yes, Pinky." [jump cut] "Oh snap, he said Thinky and I gave out the answer. Stupid me."
But you can't blame Alex. Where the heck did "Thinky" come from? Going against both the TOM and the category...
How does "Thinky" go against the TOM of "brain"? Also, the category's gimmick had not yet been established, since it was the first clue revealed.
OrangeSAM wrote: I thought the category was five-letter words. Did I get that wrong?
I thought the same thing at first, and only after the entire category was finished was I able to rehash all 4 clues and figure out that the theme was actually quite obvious. The category had "5 finger" in the title, and each clue's response included the name of one of the 5 fingers: Middle C, something with "ring" in it related to cigars, Pinky, with the "brain" TOM, and I believe something with "index" in it. Presumably the unrevealed clue would have referenced the thumb.

I immediately answered "Pinky" for the first clue, based on the Pac-Man and "brain" hints, but I think I blanked on at least 1 of the others, probably Middle C, which I may have gotten if I had realized what they were going for with the category.

*ETA* Forgot I could check the DVR and clear up all the details. $400 was middle C, $600 was index (follows "cost of living" or "consumer price"), $800 was Pinky, and $1,000 was ring gauge (unit used to measure diameter of cigars). They went $600, $800, $400, $1,000, so the "Pinky" clue wasn't first, it came after index, which is why at least two of us got the impression that the category theme may have been 5-letter words.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Magna »

Austin Powers wrote:But books can have appendices and have, separately, a bibliography. I just wrote a lengthy article that did exactly that. I wouldn't say that's uncommon. So, yeah, it can be an appendix, but I feel there was something not quite right in the BMS there.
Not sure whether this is what you were getting at, but there are also bibliographies that aren't appended to anything. Some are even their own monographs.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

Magna wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:But books can have appendices and have, separately, a bibliography. I just wrote a lengthy article that did exactly that. I wouldn't say that's uncommon. So, yeah, it can be an appendix, but I feel there was something not quite right in the BMS there.
Not sure whether this is what you were getting at, but there are also bibliographies that aren't appended to anything. Some are even their own monographs.
That's a good point, too. To me the biggest issue is that, while a bibliography CAN be a form of appendix, my recollection of the clue was that it made list to a collection of references. That could be an appendix, but that's NOT an appendix. Anyone remember the clue?
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

jeff6286 wrote:
I thought the same thing at first, and only after the entire category was finished was I able to rehash all 4 clues and figure out that the theme was actually quite obvious. The category had "5 finger" in the title, and each clue's response included the name of one of the 5 fingers: Middle C, something with "ring" in it related to cigars, Pinky, with the "brain" TOM, and I believe something with "index" in it. Presumably the unrevealed clue would have referenced the thumb.

I immediately answered "Pinky" for the first clue, based on the Pac-Man and "brain" hints, but I think I blanked on at least 1 of the others, probably Middle C, which I may have gotten if I had realized what they were going for with the category.

*ETA* Forgot I could check the DVR and clear up all the details. $400 was middle C, $600 was index (follows "cost of living" or "consumer price"), $800 was Pinky, and $1,000 was ring gauge (unit used to measure diameter of cigars). They went $600, $800, $400, $1,000, so the "Pinky" clue wasn't first, it came after index, which is why at least two of us got the impression that the category theme may have been 5-letter words.
Probably that urban legend about how we get the phrase "rule of thumb."
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by marpocky »

davey wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:
marpocky wrote:A bibliography is indeed part of an appendix
News to me. I thought they were different types of thing.

Still, I think appendix should've gotten a pause and a glance at the judges.
I wouldn't say that a bibliography is a part of an appendix. I'd say it's a type of appendix, something appended to a book. Thus, worthy of a BMS. Books often have multiple appendices.
Yeah, that's probably a better way to phrase it. I was thinking of it as being part of the stuff at the end of the book/article/whatever, hence "the appendix," but there are indeed often several sections each referred to as an appendix.
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I think so, Bobby,but this time you wear the cheese

Post by dhkendall »

Austin Powers wrote:
alietr wrote:Another counterargument is that some people like to get them early as a defensive measure to remove them from the other contestants.
True, but since you don't know where it is, you're best going after it in categories where your opponents might be strong. For example, if I am playing jpahk, I take out those math and physics categories early. If I am playing TPH, country music is off the board, fast!
That's a noble strategy, however, it also runs a real risk of getting out buzzed. While it's a good idea to, say, get the country music questions away from TPH, my money is on TPH getting to the buzzer quicker because he would know the answer faster than you. (And, if you're generally a quicker buzz than your opponent, if you think that you'll buzz in first whether you know the answer or not, that leaves you wide open for negging and having him get it on the rebound.) And, since the Daily Doubles are usually lower on the board, there's a greater chance that TPH would know the country music questions that are lower on the board.
TenPoundHammer wrote:I'm surprised dhkendall hasn't said anything to me about the Pinky and the Brain reference in the clue.

Awkward moment there too. Something like: "What is Thinky?" "Yes, Pinky." [jump cut] "Oh snap, he said Thinky and I gave out the answer. Stupid me."
I didn't even noticed the "brain" TOM until you pointed it out (and still haven't, technically, as I erased my recording and the archived version isn't up yet.) Fortunately, I got it from figuring out the category and being a huge Pac-Man fan since the age of 10 (probably when it came out). (So "Pinky" collides with one of our wheelhouses, either "Pac Man" for me, "Pie" for you, or "& the Brain" for both of us.)
Austin Powers wrote:
jeff6286 wrote: *ETA* Forgot I could check the DVR and clear up all the details. $400 was middle C, $600 was index (follows "cost of living" or "consumer price"), $800 was Pinky, and $1,000 was ring gauge (unit used to measure diameter of cigars). They went $600, $800, $400, $1,000, so the "Pinky" clue wasn't first, it came after index, which is why at least two of us got the impression that the category theme may have been 5-letter words.
Probably that urban legend about how we get the phrase "rule of thumb."
So, basically the same thing I surprised about 12 hours earlier:
dhkendall wrote:Any guesses on the clues we didn't see? I got a pretty good idea at 2 of the 3: Five finger $200: "blah, blah, blah, blah, rule of this", and April 23 $400 would have as a correct response "Who is William Shakespeare?", being the most famous writer who died on that date (arguably the most famous writer ever), the clue may have included the fact that he may have also been born on that date - no one knows when he really was born, but he was baptized on April 26, and it wouldn't be unheard of to baptize at the age of 3 days.
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Re: I think so, Bobby,but this time you wear the cheese

Post by TenPoundHammer »

dhkendall wrote:(So "Pinky" collides with one of our wheelhouses, either "Pac Man" for me, "Pie" for you, or "& the Brain" for both of us.)
I just know the next Kids' Week is going to have a Friendship Is Magic clue that none of you would have known without my help.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

dhkendall wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:
alietr wrote:Another counterargument is that some people like to get them early as a defensive measure to remove them from the other contestants.
True, but since you don't know where it is, you're best going after it in categories where your opponents might be strong. For example, if I am playing jpahk, I take out those math and physics categories early. If I am playing TPH, country music is off the board, fast!
That's a noble strategy, however, it also runs a real risk of getting out buzzed. While it's a good idea to, say, get the country music questions away from TPH, my money is on TPH getting to the buzzer quicker because he would know the answer faster than you. (And, if you're generally a quicker buzz than your opponent, if you think that you'll buzz in first whether you know the answer or not, that leaves you wide open for negging and having him get it on the rebound.) And, since the Daily Doubles are usually lower on the board, there's a greater chance that TPH would know the country music questions that are lower on the board.
Of course, but that is my point. Let's say the DD is in Country Music. Should I get outbuzzed early in the round, when my opponent has less money to bet, or later, when he was more money to bet?

I am remind of the time someone played jpahk and the category was "A in Math." I said to myself, "well, they should try to keep him from getting the DD if it is there." And, yes, the opponent started there. Good, right? Except it was in the $400 level question. jpahk proceeded to steamroll the category, including DD IIRC.

So, if you are going to do it, also go to the bottom of the board first. Or the $1600, since DDs seem to be there more lately.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Mike, I was wondering if you might be able to help me out a little.

I'm entering this game in the Archive and I'm at the clue, "The site of heavy fighting during World War I, this river joins the Seine at the Paris suburb of Charenton". I think that your response was, "What is Ypres?", but I'm not certain. Do you recall if that's what you were going for there?
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by legendneverdies »

econgator wrote:Mike, I was wondering if you might be able to help me out a little.

I'm entering this game in the Archive and I'm at the clue, "The site of heavy fighting during World War I, this river joins the Seine at the Paris suburb of Charenton". I think that your response was, "What is Ypres?", but I'm not certain. Do you recall if that's what you were going for there?
That's what it sounded like, as the Ypres was IIRC involved in WWI fighting.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Johnblue »

Is there actually a Ypres River? I've been to that battlefield & they still have the bunkers but I don't recall a river.
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Re: Monday, April 23, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Johnblue wrote:Is there actually a Ypres River? I've been to that battlefield & they still have the bunkers but I don't recall a river.
That's what threw me, as I don't recall a river by that name either.
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