Monday, June 11, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Austin Powers]

I've never gotten the "oh it's religious so it should be off limits" approach.

First of all, it's clearly meaningful to billions and historically important; that should count for something.

The analog you see is that certain political opinions are considered invalid if religiously motivated. For example, if I think the government should help the poor, just because I say so, that's great, but if I say that government should help the poor because Jesus would want it that way, that somehow is now a problem.

And the bottom line is that the show clearly expects you to know some token religious material. I
can't recall the last such question that I missed which was based on the Bible. More broadly, it was probably camerlengo. Free money if you ask me.

[earendel]

But why mention Acts at all? Why not cite the verse in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John and be done with it? It just wasn't a good idea to incorporate the Acts verse as an indirect reference. Period.

I am no biblical scholar by any means, but I do seem to remember a telling of the Last Supper somewhere in Acts (in the past tense, of course). Obviously not in Acts 1:13.

Brian

You may be thinking of Paul's mention of the supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

[falsifieddocuments]

About the government thing, I just wanted to register to point something out. The First Amendment reads, in part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." I'm not sure that a government-run Jeopardy would be prohibited from asking religious questions because they don't prohibit a free exercise of religion and because Jeopardy asks about a lot of different religions. Even so, the First Amendment only applies to the government. Corporations can have any religious agenda they want. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy their products or watch their TV shows.

[bpmod]

I am no biblical scholar by any means, but I do seem to remember a telling of the Last Supper somewhere in Acts (in the past tense, of course). Obviously not in Acts 1:13.

Brian

You may be thinking of Paul's mention of the supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Yes, that's it exactly!

Brian

[Magna]

For the weekly poll I will list the wording of the FJ clue and you check the box if you had it correct. "Last Supper" and "Pentecost" are two responses that should give you no hesitation in checking the box since they were either ruled correct or credited as good enough to be rewarded with money.

You can make your own judgment about other responses. It could be that any reasonable upper room tied-in response works with the clue's wording? Each voter makes their best call on whether to check the box or not. Even with the names public I don't see someone bothering to check that list vs. comments in the Monday thread to determine worthiness of voting they got it.

Until Alex made his announcement, I thought this was one of the few Bible clues I've ever missed. I knew Pentecost was Acts 2, and the Last Supper was in the gospels, so I didn't give either of those responses. The only two Acts 1 events I could remember were the election of a new apostle to replace Judas, and all the disciples gathering for prayer. I didn't think the election could be so early in the book. So my response was "What is prayer?'" even though it didn't at all sound like what J! would ever ask.

As it turns out, that's probably as right an answer as any. Verse 13 mentions them all gathering in the room, and verse 14 explains that when they were there, they were all praying. (Technically, "What is the disciples gathering together?" would be the most correct, but as far as I know no one said that.)

[Magna]

I've never gotten the "oh it's religious so it should be off limits" approach.

First of all, it's clearly meaningful to billions and historically important; that should count for something.
...
And the bottom line is that the show clearly expects you to know some token religious material. I
can't recall the last such question that I missed which was based on the Bible. More broadly, it was probably camerlengo. Free money if you ask me.

This.

Fwiw, any religious category is usually a strong one for me. I'm not a Hindu or Muslim, but I think it's perfectly fair to ask questions about those religions - and I generally get them. There are also categories I know a lot less about, which I hope don't come up if I'm on the show, but that doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't ever appear on the board.

[DadofTwins]

I read the FJ clue at home over lunch (still no nighttime Jeopardy here), and all 3 people -- MomofTwins and both girls -- said "the appointment of Matthias."

I'm counting it.

[TenPoundHammer]

gathering together

As opposed to gathering separately? (That always bugged me about that hymn "We Gather Together". Redundant statement is redundant.)

[Vanya]

gathering together

As opposed to gathering separately? (That always bugged me about that hymn "We Gather Together". Redundant statement is redundant.)

No, as opposed to gathering firewood.

[TenPoundHammer]

gathering together

As opposed to gathering separately? (That always bugged me about that hymn "We Gather Together". Redundant statement is redundant.)

No, as opposed to gathering firewood.

Very well. I have some togethers that I really should get to gathering.

[stevo4212]

"A person who is incredibly out of shape should in no way be forced to learn about sports or exercise, to do so otherwise is highly immoral in my opinion."

Yeah. I just don't get why people gripe about religious clues so much.

It's not like the J! writers are begging you to convert. It's not like they're saying you absolutely must learn who [insert Bible character here] is or you'll burn in Hell. And to say you're being "forced to learn" is absurd.

And even so, I don't see why the two should be mutually exclusive. Even if you choose not to believe in anything Christian, does it really harm you if you know a few big names in the Bible? I don't follow Hinduism, but I still recognize the names Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. I don't believe in them, but I still know who they are.

I'm not so sure it's absurd to say a person is forced to learn religion. Any jeopardy viewer can take note of the proliferation of biblical clues and note that there is good chance that a biblical category will show up in his game of Jeopardy! and his winning that game may therefore depend on his knowledge of {insert biblical reference here].


My moralistic gripe comes from the common bit of motherly advice, "don't talk about religion with strangers." Shouldn't that bit of wisdom factor into the writers' conscience and impose some kind of limit as to how much scripture they should ask contestants to know, and how much scripture is being broadcast to homes across the country?

Sure, religion is heavily tied to everything else on earth, I suppose, but isn't it sort of inappropriate to reference a passage of the bible directly?

Since some people could get offended by religious questions, why use them?

[Magna]

gathering together

As opposed to gathering separately? (That always bugged me about that hymn "We Gather Together". Redundant statement is redundant.)

It's also emphatic; it points out people are gathering in order to be together, and not merely moving into the same area. By contrast, someone might say storm clouds gathered on the horizon, or a crowd gathered at the scene of an accident - but not "gathered together" in that context.

[stevo4212]

Isn't there another problem with religion, in that one person may adhere to an uncommon sect, in which a different answer would be correct, according to his interpretation of the scripture? Why should the Jeopardy writers be willing to go down that route, getting even more confrontational than I was suggesting? I would suggest getting out of the religion business altogether.

[Austin Powers]

Isn't there another problem with religion, in that one person may adhere to an uncommon sect, in which a different answer would be correct, according to his interpretation of the scripture? Why should the Jeopardy writers be willing to go down that route, getting even more confrontational than I was suggesting? I would suggest getting out of the religion business altogether.

Do you have an example of this? I mean, if they cite the King James Bible, it's not like I can claim that a verse uses a certain word any more than I could claim that Moby Dick is, in fact, about an orangutan.

[Magna]

Since some people could get offended by religious questions, why use them?

The same could be said for clues about all kinds of other topics, including women who work outside the home, interracial marriages, combat sports, war, immoral celebrities, risque movies, Nazis, surgery, alcohol, or meat. They still ask about those things.

[Volante]

Isn't there another problem with religion, in that one person may adhere to an uncommon sect, in which a different answer would be correct, according to his interpretation of the scripture? Why should the Jeopardy writers be willing to go down that route, getting even more confrontational than I was suggesting? I would suggest getting out of the religion business altogether.

They tend to limit themselves to names, places, things and quotes.
It's basically the same knowledge set you need to handle categories on the works of Shakespeare.

[Magna]

Isn't there another problem with religion, in that one person may adhere to an uncommon sect, in which a different answer would be correct, according to his interpretation of the scripture? Why should the Jeopardy writers be willing to go down that route, getting even more confrontational than I was suggesting? I would suggest getting out of the religion business altogether.

They tend to limit themselves to names, places, things and quotes.
It's basically the same knowledge set you need to handle categories on the works of Shakespeare.

Agreed. I suppose they might get into difficulty asking about doctrine or something like that. But I've never seen such a clue used. They aren't asking about disputed issues or things that are matters opinion, any more than they'd ask those in any other category. On the occasions where some kind of quotation is part of the response, they accept paraphrases, so it doesn't matter what translation of the Bible someone uses.

[stevo4212]

Isn't there another problem with religion, in that one person may adhere to an uncommon sect, in which a different answer would be correct, according to his interpretation of the scripture? Why should the Jeopardy writers be willing to go down that route, getting even more confrontational than I was suggesting? I would suggest getting out of the religion business altogether.

Do you have an example of this? I mean, if they cite the King James Bible, it's not like I can claim that a verse uses a certain word any more than I could claim that Moby Dick is, in fact, about an orangutan.

I personally don't know enough about religion to give an example.

But, aren't there sects of Christianity that don't use the King James Version of the Bible? Maybe some even include other Gospels, so to ask a question about Jesus' life without attribution to a particular gospel could raise serious questions.

I think the ISKCON adherents believe that Krishna is the most important god in the pantheon, but Hindus think he is the eighth avatar of Vishnu.

[stevo4212]

I guess religious clues are not going away any time soon. Do you know a good way to learn facts about the bible? I guess if I ever compete against Ned Flanders, I'm going down, haha.

[kristinsausville]

They were attempting to ask a question about the Last Supper. Given how many times that event has been referenced in art -- everyone from da Vinci to Dali -- it's not unreasonable to expect even non-Christians to be aware of it.