Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby alietr » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:51 pm

WELCOME BRIAN!

(Just had to use my own bullhorn.) Glad you had such a fun time on the show.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bgm » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:00 pm

Thanks for the big welcome!! And for those of you wondering, Laura Jambon is as fun in person as she was on the show. She is a hoot! Wish it were possible to go back and do it again, but it's important that as many people get to have that experience as possible. Oh, and if you are interested in being on the show and want an important piece of advice... work on buzzing in on time. It makes a HUGE difference!
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby harrumph » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:07 pm

Brian -

Even though you felt you legitimately missed the clue, the analysis and parsing of it in this thread is also legit with the notion that you deserve a second chance.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:15 pm

Here's the bullhorn clip, thanks to Bpmod:

Ten Pound Hammer

Windmill, windmill for the land / Is everybody in?
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby ten96lt » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:34 pm

StevenH wrote:I would have prompted the "Barber of Seville" response, but not accepted it outright.



Ditto on the opinion to prompt "Barber of Seville" but not outright accept it.

I enjoyed the businesses in TV and the Kathy Bates category; even though I blanked on the name of Misery. I remember that scene vividly, but had one of those "Oh crap I'm blanking on the name of the movie?" moments.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:35 pm

Sad to see AJ go, which isn't a knock on the winner, who certainly knows more about Christie than I do. Good knowledge base, nice pulls, and probably kicking himself on that FJ (which read to me like "BLAH BLAH John Dryden first BLAH BLAH"), which was all I needed. Oh well.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:40 pm

Ozymandias wrote:I suggest that Brian should not have been negged on the "Figaro" question. The clue referred to "this character's name" being repeated. Yes, the name is Figaro, but Figaro is the Barber of Seville, which is a correct alternate identification of the character. Yet again, the judges were surprised by a correct answer that wasn't what they had in mind, and, yet again, they fumbled it.


Yeah but the song repeats "Figaro" over and over again, come on man.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:42 pm

God, the whole show has just been outstanding for two straight episodes. Where has this been?
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:47 pm

stevo4212 wrote:Beyond mere semantics. For those who've actually watched the opera, you probably know that the repeating of the name is not unrelated to being barber of seville.

In fact, Figaro sings the song, himself, to brag about his skill as a barber. He's practically calling himself the "Barber of Seville."

The first few words of the aria: "Largo al factotum della cita" - Make way for the factotum of the city.

I'd say recalling all of that on the J1 stage shows some higher-order thinking. The man deserves his 5000 points and then some.


Oh, come on. This wasn't some nuanced, technical answer the guy was giving. He was fumbling and pulled "Barber of Seville" from "Largo." Actually his really big mistake was not betting more - if he really knows music that well, you go all-in there on a middle tier clue. I don't fault him for missing the Pagliacci one, I said "Revi" myself.

Besides, he lost. He was going to lose anyway.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby stevo4212 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:19 pm

Austin Powers wrote:Besides, he lost. He was going to lose anyway.


I wouldn't say so, necessarily. Getting the 5,000 would have been a 10,000 dollar swing, not a 5,000 swing; he would have been in the lead. Maybe in that case, he would have had the peace of mind to recall who John Dryden was. Or, perhaps he could have tried an interesting betting strategy.

Maybe you're right, in this case, since Brian gave us his elocution. But, Brian could have thought like I suggested. I bet some people would have read the question literally, and thought, "This character's name," so you don't actually want the name, Figaro? Isn't this kind of like the old "Who are you?" question, alla Alice and Wonderland, or Anger Management? What are they looking for? (Q: Who are you? A: Steven Q: I don't want to know your name, I just want to know who you are. A: I'm an actuary with State Farm. Q. I don't want to know your profession, who are you? ) Lol.

Thanks for your advice, Brian, may you continue to find reasons to enjoy trivia, and perhaps stay friends with Ms. Hambon. Lol. is that a manufactured name? I think the trend these days, is, instead of taking the husband's name, the couple will legally change their names to something of their own design.

Also, in Brian's defense, I think your knowledge of La Donna et Mobile attests to your deep knowledge of opera.
Last edited by stevo4212 on Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A cut-and-Dryden response, if ever there was one

Postby Sage on the Hudson » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:24 pm

seaborgium wrote:I thought the FJ was unbelievably easy, but then I know who John Dryden is (I think I would have even gotten it right if the clue had been "John Dryden was the first to hold this position"). Even so, I'm surprised versificator didn't help the guys.


And you don't even need to know much about him, beyond the fact that he's one the great men of English Letters. That ought to lead you right to Poet Laureate.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:42 pm

stevo4212 wrote:
Austin Powers wrote:Besides, he lost. He was going to lose anyway.


I wouldn't say so, necessarily. Getting the 5,000 would have been a 10,000 dollar swing, not a 5,000 swing; he would have been in the lead. Maybe in that case, he would have had the peace of mind to recall who John Dryden was. Or, perhaps he could have tried an interesting betting strategy.

Maybe you're right, in this case, since Brian gave us his elocution. But, Brian could have thought like I suggested. I bet some people would have read the question literally, and thought, "This character's name," so you don't actually want the name, Figaro? Isn't this kind of like the old "Who are you?" question, alla Alice and Wonderland, or Anger Management? What are they looking for? (Q: Who are you? A: Steven Q: I don't want to know your name, I just want to know who you are. A: I'm an actuary with State Farm. Q. I don't want to know your profession, who are you? ) Lol.

Thanks for your advice, Brian, may you continue to find reasons to enjoy trivia, and perhaps stay friends with Ms. Hambon. Lol. is that a manufactured name? I think the trend these days, is, instead of taking the husband's name, the couple will legally change their names to something of their own design.

Also, in Brian's defense, I think your knowledge of La Donna et Mobile attests to your deep knowledge of opera.


But the betting situation being what it was, he loses anyway. Ok, sure, getting the answer gives you this surge of confidence, or something, but think what you are saying. Any time there is a borderline call, if you don't give it, you deprive said person of that confidence, meaning that in some alternate universe we didn't realize they would win... and no one would ever make the show again as a new contestant, as we'd be busy filling the slots with previous contestants with one grievance or another. I'm strongly inclined against such a position.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby stevo4212 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Austin Powers wrote:But the betting situation being what it was, he loses anyway. Ok, sure, getting the answer gives you this surge of confidence, or something, but think what you are saying. Any time there is a borderline call, if you don't give it, you deprive said person of that confidence, meaning that in some alternate universe we didn't realize they would win... and no one would ever make the show again as a new contestant, as we'd be busy filling the slots with previous contestants with one grievance or another. I'm strongly inclined against such a position.


I think the standard response to various slippery slope arguments, when they come up in court, is that we're only saying that a person is entitled to redress his grievance when the defendant breaks the law, and causes injury to the plaintiff, and that the judges are there to apply the law to the facts of the case, not to do the legislature's job for them.

I think the onus should be on the jeopardy writers to say what they mean and mean what they say. When a contestant is penalized for a response that is actually a legitimate response, he deserves a remedy. But, I guess you don't agree that barber of Seville was a correct answer. I spoke to someone about it, and he agrees with you.

In this alternate universe, is there room to debate on the optimal betting strategy for the leader? The scores would have been 18,600 - 13,200 - 6,400. AJ would probably want to take the Venusian bet, of zero or so. But, Brian knows this, so wouldn't he also want to bet zero? (but, hey, AJ knows what Brian will bet, so he has to bet more, and around we go I guess this is a game with no nash equilibrium. Or, are there multiple Nash equilibria? I suppose J! has different terminology
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bpmod » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:29 pm

From a legal standpoint, Jeopardy! has covered its a$$ well enough that even if the response were completely correct and was ruled incorrect, they have no obligation to make it right with said contestant. But, of course, that can cause some bad publicity or other negative impact on ratings reputation or whatever. So, they have become very good at taking the high road and inviting contestants back for the slightest of perceived inconsistencies or bad calls.

By the wording of the clue, it is obvious to most of us here that "the barber of Seville" fits the clue just fine. But, beyond that, would that $10,000 swing have been enough to win Brian (what a great name!) the game? There could be an argument for that side. And I know of cases where the person invited back could not possibly have won in his/her particular case.

So Jeopardy! will do what Jeopardy! wants to do. It won't upset me too much either way.

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...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby trainman » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:12 pm

alietr wrote:Yeah, but grabbing it from where? Is his DVR hooked up to his PC or what? And how? Or is he using a TV card in his PC? Inquiring minds want to know.


The latter -- more accurately, it's a USB TV tuner device (one of these) hooked up to my Mac; I have its DVR software set to record J! every night. That's pretty much the only thing I use it for, since I have my actual TV connected to a DirecTV DVR (which I also use to record J!, among other shows), but I don't have that DVR set up to move its content anywhere else.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:21 pm

trainman wrote:
alietr wrote:Yeah, but grabbing it from where? Is his DVR hooked up to his PC or what? And how? Or is he using a TV card in his PC? Inquiring minds want to know.


The latter -- more accurately, it's a USB TV tuner device (one of these) hooked up to my Mac; I have its DVR software set to record J! every night. That's pretty much the only thing I use it for, since I have my actual TV connected to a DirecTV DVR (which I also use to record J!, among other shows), but I don't have that DVR set up to move its content anywhere else.


I have one of those as well (on of the first things I got after I got my Mac (although they can be used for PCs too) and I love it! I don't have a PVR or any other kind of recording device, so this is it. Very handy. (And, yes, it helps when I'm entering clues into the Archive too.)
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bgm » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:23 pm

The judges do all they can to be accurate and fair. In just about every game (including ours) the judges stopped the game to evaluate answers. One of the things about the Daily Double that you are told in advance is that once the answer is out there, you don't have the opportunity to go... "Oh wait, no!" I knew both the answer Figaro and Barber of Seville and shot out the wrong one thanks to my suspect reading comprehension skills. Interestingly, one of my consolations was the fact that no matter what happened there, the fact I did not know the Final Jeopardy question made that rather moot. It most certainly would have changed my betting strategy in FJ, but if the answers shook out the same for the remainder of the round, it still would have been a close enough game that I would have been required to bet SOMETHING. And knowing my critical thinking skills at that point, I'm not sure I would have bet the right amount to avoid Liza anyway. :-)

I was nervous facing both AJ and Liza, because AJ had been doing extremely well and Liza just had this unflappable air about her. Personally, I thought it was pretty cool that Liza leap-frogged both of us to win. Gave the whole game a little "oomph" at the end.

I really do like the parsing out of the issues here though, and wish some of you had been judging on the show! ;)

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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby jeff6286 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:47 pm

It is admirable, Brian, that you remain steadfast that it was your own mistake, not the judges'. Here is the way I look at it: If they had asked for this character name, then Figaro would appear to be the sole acceptable response. But since they asked for this character's name, note the 's, then any name or title that refers to the character in question should be acceptable, either Figaro or the Barber of Seville. It seems like a minor semantic difference, but in this case it makes all the difference in the world.
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bgm » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Jeff, In reading this discussion and your reasoning, I totally agree with the conclusion that either could have been acceptable according to the wording of the question. The fact the judge's did not see it that way is no water off my back, though. In the heat of the moment, I dropped the ball. Wish I could have recalled who John Dryden was... THAT would have been a huge difference maker!

Interested to see how Liza does on Monday!
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Re: Friday, July 13, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:17 pm

bgm wrote:Jeff, In reading this discussion and your reasoning, I totally agree with the conclusion that either could have been acceptable according to the wording of the question. The fact the judge's did not see it that way is no water off my back, though. In the heat of the moment, I dropped the ball. Wish I could have recalled who John Dryden was... THAT would have been a huge difference maker!

Interested to see how Liza does on Monday!


Exactly, isn't it written in the contract somewhere: "the judges' decision is final"? I appreciate the tone from you regarding that.
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