On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby bpmod » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:07 pm

Also, in addition to my previous criticism (about strategic play), when the category is 'What Are You Doing?' (and sometimes 'Event'), there is always an ING somewhere in the puzzle. Try those first!! And in a category such as 'Artist/Song', there is always BY. And if the cat is 'Names The Same', 'Husband & Wife', and certain others, it is safe to assume there is an AND. the cat 'Actor/role' always has AS in there. These things should just be known, but I see contestants (sometimes all three) pass by all of the obvious ones turn after turn.

Oh, and I can never figure out why sometimes they provide an ampersand and other times they spell out AND in the categories mentioned above.

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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Tehshigelisok » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:20 pm

I've never seen Husband & Wife spell out AND. Same Name tends to waffle on using AND vs. ampersand.

Another one I've noticed is that Food & Drink tends to be a plural far more often than not.

Conversely, I've almost never seen anyone not go for N-G-I first if it's What Are You Doing?

The ones that bug me are those who fail Bonus Roundology 101. Like having _'M _AL__A_ __ME and guessing "I'm coming home". Or not realizing that the E is taken, so AT_LET_C ___LD can't be ATHLETIC FIELD (it was BUILD). Or taking until after the buzzer to figure out that _OME HEL_ O_T is COME HELP OUT just because you were guessing nonwords like FOME and forgetting that it can't be HELD because you called the D.

Or most egregiously, having GLO_E, guessing GLOVE, being told it's wrong, and then staring dumbly at the puzzle for 10 seconds.
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Serendipity » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:04 am

I know a guy here in San Francisco who was on both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. This was waaaay back. I am digging in my memory for his name - I think it was Peter Lallos. I know he won a brass bed on WOF. I think he was a four-time champion on J! - I don't think he made it to the TOC. I searched for him on the J! Archives site, didn't find him. Perhaps the early seasons are incomplete?
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby bpmod » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 am

Serendipity wrote:I know a guy here in San Francisco who was on both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. This was waaaay back. I am digging in my memory for his name - I think it was Peter Lallos. I know he won a brass bed on WOF. I think he was a four-time champion on J! - I don't think he made it to the TOC. I searched for him on the J! Archives site, didn't find him. Perhaps the early seasons are incomplete?

If you do discover when he aired on J!, and if those dates are not in the Archive, please find out if he or somebody he knows has recordings of his games. It would be very helpful for the Archive.

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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Volante » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:49 am

bpmod wrote:
Volante wrote:I'd like to buy an 'E'...

[Fictional Characters]
_N_____ __ __E
___N_ ____E

I'd say that's a waste of $250.

Brian

(Can...can we (read: I) get a spoiler for this, please? :D )
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby xxaaaxx » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:07 am

Volante wrote:
bpmod wrote:
Volante wrote:I'd like to buy an 'E'...

[Fictional Characters]
_N_____ __ __E
___N_ ____E

I'd say that's a waste of $250.

Brian

(Can...can we (read: I) get a spoiler for this, please? :D )

Spoiler: show
Knights of the Round Table? I don't watch WOF much, and since the category was Fictional CharacterS, I thought it was actual character names, so until I saw the 'E', I thought the third word was "and" (though I guess they'd just use an ampersand).
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby dhkendall » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:17 am

These recent responses prove my point, all of us (with one or two notable exceptions) are good at J!, but our Wheel skills are all over the board, some of you are calling the whole show "child's play", whereas some of us are scratching their heads over most of the puzzles posted in this thread.

So, while it's a friendly rivalry, making ribbing of the other show and its fans de rigeur, it doesn't automatically mean that the smart people play J! and the rest of the people play Wheel.
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby seaborgium » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:20 am

dhkendall wrote:de rigeur

Rigueur is spelled with two U's (the one after the G prevents it from becoming a zh sound when followed by the E). Think of "liqueur"!
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby legendneverdies » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:57 am

Serendipity wrote:I know a guy here in San Francisco who was on both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. This was waaaay back. I am digging in my memory for his name - I think it was Peter Lallos. I know he won a brass bed on WOF. I think he was a four-time champion on J! - I don't think he made it to the TOC. I searched for him on the J! Archives site, didn't find him. Perhaps the early seasons are incomplete?


Peter was on in the first Trebek season. They had exactly 15 five time champs in the first season, ergo the 1985 TofC had no four time champs(there was no Teen, COllege, or Seniors tournament as yet).
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby dhkendall » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:06 am

seaborgium wrote:
dhkendall wrote:de rigeur

Rigueur is spelled with two U's (the one after the G prevents it from becoming a zh sound when followed by the E). Think of "liqueur"!


Or Portuguese, I always wind up spelling it with one "u" (the first one) since the second is silent.
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby okstater04 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:08 pm

dhkendall wrote:These recent responses prove my point, all of us (with one or two notable exceptions) are good at J!, but our Wheel skills are all over the board, some of you are calling the whole show "child's play", whereas some of us are scratching their heads over most of the puzzles posted in this thread.

So, while it's a friendly rivalry, making ribbing of the other show and its fans de rigeur, it doesn't automatically mean that the smart people play J! and the rest of the people play Wheel.


I think that sums it up quite nicely. If you enjoy the game, why not try to play it on a grander scale, and maybe win some money while doing it? I see no shame and don't consider you any less intelligent for doing so. But I 1000% agree, though, that some people on the show make some very boneheaded moves. Me? One of my boneheaded moves was solving a puzzle way too early. I got $2200 for it, but I left 4 "M"s and 3 "T"s on the board. If you remember my episode at all, you'll remember that I was dangerously close to Lose a Turn many times and hit bankrupt twice, so I don't blame myself at all for being a little scared of the wheel.

But to discuss the audition process briefly, I think I'm a relatively smart person. I was in the Wheel contestant pool for exactly one week (because they wanted me to appear on a specific-themed week), and in the Jeopardy! pool for four months. I didn't have to jump up and down and be crazy to be selected for either Wheel or Jeopardy!. I showed up, smiled, did well on the written test, solved my puzzle in the Wheel mock game/answered some questions in the J! mock game, and bada bing bada boom was taping Wheel of Fortune a month later/taping Jeopardy! five months later. Trust me, when you watch me next week on J!, you'll see I'm no supermodel. I'm relatively young looking (although I'm 30, I got ID'ed for an R-rated movie a couple weeks ago), but I don't think that was what got me on. Some people who were jumping up and down and being crazy at the Wheel audition didn't move on to the mock game after they graded the written tests. So, it's not just a "who can look the most fun on TV" contest. You go in, you have a solid audition, and if they like you (with some exceptions), they will put you through. I believe that to be true for both shows.

And thanks Serendipity for your insight on the contestant you know. In case it was missed when I posted it before, someone told me that Harvey Friedman once said that "about two dozen" have done both shows.
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Serendipity » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:29 am

I appeared on Jeopardy! in 2000. I've applied to WOF twice and always aced the test, but never got even close to being selected for the show. Last time I applied was probably in the 1990's so things may have changed, but at the time everybody who passed the test was herded into a classroom with a cheesy looking wheel, then they zipped around the room having us call out letters. Then they picked a couple of people to put into the pool. The odds of getting on from that pool are really small. And whatever they're looking for, it's not skill at wordplay. At least, not beyond whatever it takes to pass the written test. They're looking for contestants who will appeal to middle America, I think. People you can root for. Whatever it is, I don't have it!
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Serendipity » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:29 am

bpmod wrote:
Serendipity wrote:I know a guy here in San Francisco who was on both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. This was waaaay back. I am digging in my memory for his name - I think it was Peter Lallos. I know he won a brass bed on WOF. I think he was a four-time champion on J! - I don't think he made it to the TOC. I searched for him on the J! Archives site, didn't find him. Perhaps the early seasons are incomplete?

If you do discover when he aired on J!, and if those dates are not in the Archive, please find out if he or somebody he knows has recordings of his games. It would be very helpful for the Archive.

Brian


I am not in touch with him :-(
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Serendipity » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:44 am

About WOF and liking wordplay - if you really like wordplay then may I suggest that you look into joining the National Puzzlers League (puzzerls.org). It's been around for about 130 years now and is devoted to words and word puzzles. The monthly publication, the Enigma, is full of "flats" (verses with missing words or phrases that you have to infer from the verses and the enumeration - there are over 100 different types of flats); "extras" (mostly cryptic crosswords); "forms" (mostly gridless crossword-style puzzles with odd shapes such as diamonds and squares); and "crypts" (cryptograms). ALL of the puzzles are written by the members. Will Shortz is a member, and just about everybody in the top 10 of the American Crossword Puzzle Tournament is in the NPL. It costs a measly $23 a year to join and receive the Enigma every month. There's a discussion list, and an annual convention in early July every year (three days of puzzles culminating in an Extravaganza on Saturday night). This year it's in Portland Oregon.

The people in the NPL are, hands down, the smartest people I know.

We once had a thread on the discussion list about WOF style puzzles. I bragged about how I got this, a quotation, with just the T (slashes indicate word breaks because multiple spaces get compressed apparently):

T _ _ _ _ ' _ / _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _

I believe they laughed at me, it was so easy.

To give you an idea of a couple of types of flat, there's:

LETTER BANK: A word or phrase of dictionary nature contains no repeated letters. Take those letters, use all of them (but no others), allowing repeats, and make other words or phrases. Wrap them all up in a verse.

One of the first letter banks I saw when I joined in 2000 used REICHSTAG as the bank; the other solution words were CASH REGISTER and AGATHA CHRISTIE. And yes, it was all wrapped up in a verse that tied everything together in a story line, and clued everything as well.

Another letter bank that blew me away involved some obscure 13-letter word which I have forgotten. But what really impressed me was that the composer of the flat had noticed that this obscure 13-letter word was a bank for: (a) the Latin motto on the great seal of the state of Maryland and (b) the phrase "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER"

I mean, what kind of freakish person notices things like that???

REBUS a rebus is a verse containing a "rubric" - usually a word or phrase, or a bunch of letters, or even an image. The solution describes the rubric and should be inferrable from the verse. A simple rubric might be the letter B, and the solution clued in the verse would be "abalone" (a B alone). That's one of the simplest examples.

Anyway, if you join, tell 'em Serendipity sent you (another perk, we all get to pick "noms" - Will Shortz's nom is WILLz as in Will, Short Z - hee!)
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby bpmod » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:10 am

Serendipity wrote:T _ _ _ _ ' _ / _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _

I took one look at that and saw
Spoiler: show
There's no place like home


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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby seaborgium » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:11 am

bpmod wrote:
Serendipity wrote:T _ _ _ _ ' _ / _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _

I took one look at that and saw
Spoiler: show
There's no place like home


Brian

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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby okstater04 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:34 am

Serendipity wrote:I appeared on Jeopardy! in 2000. I've applied to WOF twice and always aced the test, but never got even close to being selected for the show. Last time I applied was probably in the 1990's so things may have changed, but at the time everybody who passed the test was herded into a classroom with a cheesy looking wheel, then they zipped around the room having us call out letters. Then they picked a couple of people to put into the pool. The odds of getting on from that pool are really small. And whatever they're looking for, it's not skill at wordplay. At least, not beyond whatever it takes to pass the written test. They're looking for contestants who will appeal to middle America, I think. People you can root for. Whatever it is, I don't have it!


At my go-round, they had 80 of us in the room (no wheel), they put puzzles up on a PowerPoint and they called us out individually to stand up and call a couple letters. Then they gave us a twenty question test to complete in five minutes. After they graded the tests, they kept 24 of us, dividing us into eight groups of three. Then they sent us on our way. I got called a week later, and a couple other people in the room that I kept up with got called within a few months.
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby jeff6286 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:43 am

Serendipity wrote:T _ _ _ _ ' _ / _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _


How about an early Variety headline from 1841?

Tyler's In Since Prez Dead
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Creed Bratton » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Serendipity wrote:And whatever they're looking for, it's not skill at wordplay. At least, not beyond whatever it takes to pass the written test. They're looking for contestants who will appeal to middle America, I think. People you can root for. Whatever it is, I don't have it!


When I was on Wheel in 1997, my two opponents were attractive, but not the best game players. I'm pretty much the opposite. So it was a good balance. Worked out well for me though, as I cleaned up that day (will forever be indebted to New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and the three Ys in his title when I hit $3500). Didn't feel bad about missing the final puzzle, though, because as a poor college student I had no use for a limited edition $25,000 Elvis jukebox. Although I had never heard of the show Mannix, which cost me quite a bit of dough.
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Re: On Both Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune?

Postby Tehshigelisok » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:48 pm

okstater04 wrote:
Serendipity wrote:I appeared on Jeopardy! in 2000. I've applied to WOF twice and always aced the test, but never got even close to being selected for the show. Last time I applied was probably in the 1990's so things may have changed, but at the time everybody who passed the test was herded into a classroom with a cheesy looking wheel, then they zipped around the room having us call out letters. Then they picked a couple of people to put into the pool. The odds of getting on from that pool are really small. And whatever they're looking for, it's not skill at wordplay. At least, not beyond whatever it takes to pass the written test. They're looking for contestants who will appeal to middle America, I think. People you can root for. Whatever it is, I don't have it!


At my go-round, they had 80 of us in the room (no wheel), they put puzzles up on a PowerPoint and they called us out individually to stand up and call a couple letters. Then they gave us a twenty question test to complete in five minutes. After they graded the tests, they kept 24 of us, dividing us into eight groups of three. Then they sent us on our way. I got called a week later, and a couple other people in the room that I kept up with got called within a few months.


My tryout had about 75 people. It had a small Wheel (basically a board game spinner turned vertical) and PowerPoint puzzles. I was surprised that the software was so outdated — it was using categories like Clue and Slogan that they retired several years ago, and On the Menu instead of Food & Drink. The girl next to me was a skinny, not too bright, early-20s who was covered nearly head to toe in tattoos. Behind me was a very charismatic 90-year-old veteran who acted at best, half his age.

It seemed nearly 2/3 of the people there were either a.) very quiet, b.) starting off with something insane like K, c.) calling repeated letters, d.) hesitating too long, e.) overall acting un-excited, or f.) some combination thereof. My puzzle was a Same Name, and I got a T-shirt for explaining the category to the crowd. I called out S, R, E and A, then solved FIRE & SEARCH RESCUE. I could hear favorable comments from the people running the show, noting that I was working quickly, speaking up, etc.

Our written tests only had 16 puzzles: 4 each in 4 categories. I got what was said to be the easier two. Breezed through about 14 puzzles. Nearly got stumped on two (a Before & After, IRONING BOARD OF DIRECTORS — and I wasn't too confident on DATELINE NBC) but got those with 45 seconds to spare. They replayed the 4,000th episode while they graded the tests. Tattoo lady didn't make it. 90-year-old didn't. I did. I literally jumped out of my seat and yelled "YES!" when they announced my name, which got a playful "down, boy!" from one of the workers.

Counting me, there were about 26 left after the tests. Once again, we played mock rounds, only this time with all of us standing up and pretending to spin. I was working on SLOT MACHINE JACKPOT when they Bankrupted me to pass it on to the spunky black lady to my left so she could get a chance. She solved and they told her it was a Prize Puzzle to Vegas, and she gave an excited reaction. Later, I solved FLAVOR OF THE MONTH and jokingly asked one of the workers, "Does that mean I win a trip to Baskin-Robbins?" which got a laugh from her. I don't think that black lady got on, but another similarly spunky black lady from that same tryout did, as did another lady who said her husband was retired from a railroad company. Also, I found out that one of the other potential contestants was originally from Traverse City, only a couple hours from me.

Sorry for going on, but even just trying out was one of the best moments of my life. God's been giving me a lot of signs recently, so I know my day will come. :D
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