Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby alietr » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:31 pm

thejeopardyfan wrote:
alietr wrote:GOK.

What does that mean?


(My Avatar) Only Knows.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby barandall800 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Miss Mellie wrote:
davey wrote:
Miss Mellie wrote:I still don't understand the Satie clue. Gymnopedies...Nocturnes...Gnossiennes...I would have guessed any of these before "opus" (no offense, opusthepenguin).


But I believe there are only 3 Gymnopedies, and they ARE known as numbers 1, 2, & 3, violating the premise of the question. I was momentarily confused by the wording, but after a second I realized they were seeking the general term, not something specific to Satie...


Thanks, davey, but I'm sorry; I still don't understand. Satie didn't call his works opuses (opi?) so, as Magna states, it seems like there could have been a number of acceptable responses?


He didn't call them opuses, but they were all assigned opus numbers. I got confused by the wording of the clue as you did, and answered "Gymnopedies," but then realized afterwards that of course there were only a few of them.

There is a Wikipedia article on the subject, which might help (I know it clarified things for me a bit, and I even work at a sheet music store, so I see opus numbers all over the place):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_number
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Paucle » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:28 pm

alietr wrote:
thejeopardyfan wrote:
alietr wrote:GOK.
What does that mean?
(My Avatar) Only Knows.

remember to come back and edit that when your avatar changes :)
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Magna » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:16 pm

barandall800 wrote:He didn't call them opuses, but they were all assigned opus numbers. I got confused by the wording of the clue as you did, and answered "Gymnopedies," but then realized afterwards that of course there were only a few of them.

There is a Wikipedia article on the subject, which might help (I know it clarified things for me a bit, and I even work at a sheet music store, so I see opus numbers all over the place):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_number

The confusing thing is, unless the compositions' names go by "op. 1" or whatever, there's little reason to call them "opus numbers" instead of just "numbers" (or some broader term like "catalog numbers," or a generic term like "identification numbers," "series numbers," etc.)

The really confusing thing is, Satie didn't really use opus numbers (except "op. 62," which apparently was a joke.) He assigned numbers to some works that were parts of a series or of the same genre, and he simply called them "numbers." For example, there's an Ogive No. 2 and also a Gnossienne No. 2. You see other composers doing this - e.g., Brahms' Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68, where the opus number is 68, not 1. So Satie wasn't really assigning opus numbers to his works as the clue said. The more you know about what an odd duck Satie was, the harder it would be to imagine him systematically cataloguing his compositions.

Although the clue focused on the numbers Satie himself assigned, as far as I know no one else assigned opus numbers to his works either - except his father, who apparently gave fake opus numbers to a few of them, to make them seem more important.
Last edited by Magna on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:18 pm

bpmod wrote:
legendneverdies wrote:
bpmod wrote:I also think that there be spoilers there. They are talking about Wednesday's game in the past tense.

Brian


It's known she'll be in the semis to those who follow the wild card scores, since at least two wild cards are known by the end of the fourth QF game, and hers is the highest of the week so far. Not much of a spoiler unless they say whether she wins her SF game or not.

Well, they seem to inply that
Spoiler: show
she loses
on Wednesday.

Brian


Regardless, they did say she'll be in the semi-finals. Unless you're a hard core Jeopardy! geek (read: a boardie), you probably haven't been keeping track of the highest scores amongst non-winners over the tournament, so that was spoilerage in itself.

I didn't quite see the same implication you did, though, Brian, perhaps it's just a bit too subtle.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Volante » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:54 pm

Magna wrote:
barandall800 wrote:He didn't call them opuses, but they were all assigned opus numbers. I got confused by the wording of the clue as you did, and answered "Gymnopedies," but then realized afterwards that of course there were only a few of them.

There is a Wikipedia article on the subject, which might help (I know it clarified things for me a bit, and I even work at a sheet music store, so I see opus numbers all over the place):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_number

The confusing thing is, unless the compositions' names go by "op. 1" or whatever, there's little reason to call them "opus numbers" instead of just "numbers" (or some broader term like "catalog numbers," or a generic term like "identification numbers," "series numbers," etc.)

The really confusing thing is, Satie didn't really use opus numbers (except "op. 62," which apparently was a joke.) He assigned numbers to some works that were parts of a series or of the same genre, and he simply called them "numbers." For example, there's an Ogive No. 2 and also a Gnossienne No. 2. You see other composers doing this - e.g., Brahms' Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68, where the opus number is 68, not 1. So Satie wasn't really assigning opus numbers to his works as the clue said. The more you know about what an odd duck Satie was, the harder it would be to imagine him systematically cataloguing his compositions.

Although the clue focused on the numbers Satie himself assigned, as far as I know no one else assigned opus numbers to his works either - except his father, who apparently gave fake opus numbers to a few of them, to make them seem more important.

Opus numbers are, best I can tell, numbers assigned to works by the composer, regardless of rhyme or reason. As a result, they're more of a curio to begin with, rather than a strict sense of organization.

Catalog numbers are where you're more likely to find something systematic as they're the work of catalogers who have more interest in keeping works separate. (Also, catalog numbers are not opus numbers.)
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:01 pm

CyrusChan wrote:What else could people have gone from Northern California city?

I can only think of SF, Sacramento, and Benicia(doubt that). When I hear NorCal , I think Bay and north of it.


Matter of perception. San Francisco seemed more central California to me on the map — and as I said, I think of NorCal as being Eureka, Redding, etc.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Bamaman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:05 pm

dhkendall wrote:
Regardless, they did say she'll be in the semi-finals. Unless you're a hard core Jeopardy! geek (read: a boardie), you probably haven't been keeping track of the highest scores amongst non-winners over the tournament,


Yeah, you'd have to be an uberdork to follow the wild card standings as the tournament goes on.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
CyrusChan wrote:What else could people have gone from Northern California city?

I can only think of SF, Sacramento, and Benicia(doubt that). When I hear NorCal , I think Bay and north of it.


Matter of perception. San Francisco seemed more central California to me on the map — and as I said, I think of NorCal as being Eureka, Redding, etc.


It all depends on where the population is - look at a map of California's population distribution, and San Fran is definitely in the northern part.

Canadians are well experienced in this, for example, London, Ontario is sometimes termed to be in Western Ontario (it's even the home of the University of Western Ontario), partly due to the fact that it was originally the western part (before the northern areas were added in 1912), but also because it's definitely in the west of where the population is. (Places like Kenora (a 2 hours drive for me) are considered in Northwestern Ontario, even though it's considerably west of London).
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Magna » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:44 pm

Volante wrote: (Also, catalog numbers are not opus numbers.)

No, but opus numbers are (arguably) a type of catalog number, as long as the composer (or publisher, or whoever else assigned the opus number) is trying to keep the compositions in some kind of order, which they usually are. The numbers aren't random, though they're also not necessarily chronological, which is what scholarly cataloguers usually aim for.

This is kind of an academic question when it comes to Satie, though, who didn't assign any real opus numbers - just the fake one.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bpmod » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:08 pm

dhkendall wrote:(Places like Kenora (a 2 hours drive for me) are considered in Northwestern Ontario, even though it's considerably west of London).

Not to pick a nit, but I like to draw a distinction between "west of" (which Kenora isn't to London) and "further west than" (which it definitely is).

And when I started to read your post, I thought you were going with the old "London is farther south than Northern California" route (which, of course, isn't true... but Point Pelee is).

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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby HugoZ » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:27 pm

What does Jerry Seinfeld yell when he fails to come up with a Triple Stumper about a sundial?
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby trainman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:04 pm

Onairb wrote:Trainman, if you're a TV Guide collector, you'll know that in the early days, the 'Northern California' edition included just about all of the markets/stations seen on that list.


As it did all the way to the end. :D The scan above was from 1997, but I also have one from 1956:

Image

Would you happen to know, roughly, what year they launced the San Francisco Metro' edition...which included Sacramento and Monterey listings, but not the 'North Coast' ones?


Sorry, I don't know the exact date, but I have an example from September 1971 in my collection:

Image

In the 2000s, there was also a "San Francisco County" edition, which was intended for cable subscribers (no idea why they went with "San Francisco County" instead of "San Francisco Cable" or "AT&T San Francisco," either of which would have matched similar "cable" editions elsewhere):

Image

Unfortunately, it seems that no one at TV Guide kept careful track of when various editions began and ended -- part of the problem is that, for much of the magazine's run, the local editions were entirely the responsibility of various regional editorial offices. And the current owners of the TV Guide trademarks and current publishers of TV Guide magazine (two separate companies) don't particularly care anyway.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:05 am

HugoZ wrote:What does Jerry Seinfeld yell when he fails to come up with a Triple Stumper about a sundial?


I don't know, but what I yell whenever a TV is tuned to Seinfeld would probably trip the censors if we were still at the Sony boards.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Magna » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:35 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
HugoZ wrote:What does Jerry Seinfeld yell when he fails to come up with a Triple Stumper about a sundial?


I don't know, but what I yell whenever a TV is tuned to Seinfeld would probably trip the censors if we were still at the Sony boards.

Time to watch something new, man.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:14 am

Magna wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:
HugoZ wrote:What does Jerry Seinfeld yell when he fails to come up with a Triple Stumper about a sundial?


I don't know, but what I yell whenever a TV is tuned to Seinfeld would probably trip the censors if we were still at the Sony boards.

Time to watch something new, man.


Regular Show it is. Got it.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Onairb » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:44 am

trainman wrote:
Onairb wrote:Trainman, if you're a TV Guide collector, you'll know that in the early days, the 'Northern California' edition included just about all of the markets/stations seen on that list.


As it did all the way to the end. :D The scan above was from 1997, but I also have one from 1956:

Image

Would you happen to know, roughly, what year they launced the San Francisco Metro' edition...which included Sacramento and Monterey listings, but not the 'North Coast' ones?


Sorry, I don't know the exact date, but I have an example from September 1971 in my collection:

Image

In the 2000s, there was also a "San Francisco County" edition, which was intended for cable subscribers (no idea why they went with "San Francisco County" instead of "San Francisco Cable" or "AT&T San Francisco," either of which would have matched similar "cable" editions elsewhere):

Image

Unfortunately, it seems that no one at TV Guide kept careful track of when various editions began and ended -- part of the problem is that, for much of the magazine's run, the local editions were entirely the responsibility of various regional editorial offices. And the current owners of the TV Guide trademarks and current publishers of TV Guide magazine (two separate companies) don't particularly care anyway.

By about 1992, TV GUIDE was being published by an office full of suit-and-tie-wearing chimps from the CareerBuilder.com Super Bowl ads. :roll:
As for channel listings, that 1971 list is more or less the lineup(and format) i grew up with; just swap channels 14 and 60 around 1979. :)
I even remember when they dropped staples, and added cable listings, on (I think)back to back weeks in '81! :mrgreen:
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby reddpen » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:52 pm

Having just watched this game and her semifinal today, I finally figured out who Kathryn Wendling reminds me of: Sela Ward.
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby gloriaclemente » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:02 pm

My hubby and I were trying to think of who she reminded us of too! We came up with Katherine Heigl...
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Re: Monday, February 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Paucle » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:13 pm

reddpen wrote:Having just watched this game and her semifinal today, I finally figured out who Kathryn Wendling reminds me of: Sela Ward.
gloriaclemente wrote:My hubby and I were trying to think of who she reminded us of too! We came up with Katherine Heigl...

Mmm... Reddpen gets my vote so far, but I'm thinking of someone else still. Gotta track her down. It's someone I've seen a lot, but in only very limited situations, which means she's probably a guest star on an L&O episode I've seen 500 times.
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