Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: The writers: mens rea

Postby Austin Powers » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:00 am

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Maybe they thought that since they got "What is Greyhound?" ($200) by you without complaint, they could sneak another one past at the end.


If such a clue had appeared as a FJ, contestants responding "What's Grayhound?" would not be penalized for spelling. Similarly, if one were taking the category's heading of '"ray" literally, one might imagine that the name of the bus company actually met that criterion, so pointing out that the bus line is actually spelled Greyhound is irrelevant. The fact remains that the category, and the writers who conceived it, are lacking in sense, to put it politely.


Sage, I am not one to shy away from criticizing the recent writing, but here it was pretty clear - five questions about guys named Ray. Three answers asked for the guys, two were about the work of two guys named Ray. That's a nice, varied category, one I liked actually.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby heisman65 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:44 am

Upon reflection, Dan's bet wasn't quite as egregious as I first thought. If Kerr and Dan make sensible bets, and they both get it wrong, Kerr should in most cases win. So Dan putting a little more money on the line is OK, as long it doesn't allow a double bet by Amy to surpass him if she gets it right and he doesn't. And $15,000 accomplishes that. Sorry, Dan!
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby John Boy » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:24 am

Interesting FJ. For once in recent days the three contestants all miss and I get it right, instead of the other way around.

I immediately thought of Vatican City and dismissed it for unknown reasons. I ended up Marktipling San Marino and Monaco, with Andorra in the back of my mind. Finally went with Monaco. Score one for the home team.

And Kerr? Houston, we have a problem, and the problem is FJ wagering. Yet another should-be-a-winner blows his foot off with a horrendous final wager. Good grief.
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Re: The writers: mens rea

Postby dhkendall » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:27 am

Austin Powers wrote:
Sage on the Hudson wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Maybe they thought that since they got "What is Greyhound?" ($200) by you without complaint, they could sneak another one past at the end.


If such a clue had appeared as a FJ, contestants responding "What's Grayhound?" would not be penalized for spelling. Similarly, if one were taking the category's heading of '"ray" literally, one might imagine that the name of the bus company actually met that criterion, so pointing out that the bus line is actually spelled Greyhound is irrelevant. The fact remains that the category, and the writers who conceived it, are lacking in sense, to put it politely.


Sage, I am not one to shy away from criticizing the recent writing, but here it was pretty clear - five questions about guys named Ray. Three answers asked for the guys, two were about the work of two guys named Ray. That's a nice, varied category, one I liked actually.


Seconded. Only when the phrase is in quotes is it expected to come up in each response.

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Re: The writers: mens rea

Postby seaborgium » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:00 pm

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Maybe they thought that since they got "What is Greyhound?" ($200) by you without complaint, they could sneak another one past at the end.


If such a clue had appeared as a FJ, contestants responding "What's Grayhound?" would not be penalized for spelling. Similarly, if one were taking the category's heading of '"ray" literally, one might imagine that the name of the bus company actually met that criterion, so pointing out that the bus line is actually spelled Greyhound is irrelevant. The fact remains that the category, and the writers who conceived it, are lacking in sense, to put it politely.

I was just making fun of the fact that you thought the fifth response was the lone deviant, when the deviation was introduced in the very first clue. I didn't feel the need to tell you that every clue dealt with a man whose name began with Ray, contained either in the clue or response (hence the absence of quotation marks in the category title), since someone had already done it.

Here, let me use your ridiculous Greyhound argument on the $1,000 clue you complained about: If such a clue had appeared as a FJ, contestants responding "What is Brayn Trust?" would not be penalized for spelling. Similarly, if one were taking the category's heading of "ray" literally, one might imagine that the name of the group actually met that criterion, so pointing out that it was actually Brain Trust is irrelevant.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby jeff6286 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Despite Sage on the Hudson's strange need to point out mistakes that aren't actually there, and his seeming inability to admit when he himself has overlooked something, he did stumble onto an interesting discovery. Both the top and bottom clue in the category led to responses of Greyhound and Brain Trust, both of which were associated with a person named Ray, and both of which also include a sound-alike of "Ray" within the word. If the writer of the category did that intentionally, it is quite impressive, and if it was unintentional, it's quite the coincidence. Another coincidence was that the last response in Marine Biology, before they jumped to the "Man: Ray" category was "What is manta [ray]?"

heisman65 wrote:Upon reflection, Dan's bet wasn't quite as egregious as I first thought. If Kerr and Dan make sensible bets, and they both get it wrong, Kerr should in most cases win. So Dan putting a little more money on the line is OK, as long it doesn't allow a double bet by Amy to surpass him if she gets it right and he doesn't. And $15,000 accomplishes that. Sorry, Dan!


I had the same thought, that in theory Dan's wager isn't bad because he should have lost anyway on a good bet by Kerr. This is another reason I've recently advocated the argument that it is smart to stick with the MSB in most cases, because you never really know if 2nd and/or 3rd are actually going to make the logical bet. In this case, Kerr should have bet no more than $8,000. He chose to go with $11,500. If he had gone with (Big Round Number!) $10,000 or $10,500 instead, Dan's overwager would have been costly.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby nlw44 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:50 pm

All this discussion of the Man: Ray category, but what I found pretty odd and interesting was that with that for a category name, one of the answers to a clue in another category - in the same round, mind you - was Manta (Ray). Different context entirely, of course, and not at all a difficult clue by itself, but it seems to me that with that juxtaposition, the Manta response had to be a gimme for everyone. Just kind of sloppy on the part of TPTB.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Volante » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:00 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Bamaman wrote:TPH-The $400 ACLU clue said it was formed in 1920 out of some other group concerned about conscientious objectors to this. It was right after WWI, so what else could it be?


That was a few years before prohibition ended, so I figured it might be that.

Much more than a few, prohibition didn't end til 1933. (On the other hand, it WAS pretty close to when prohibition went into effect, so good effort there!)
For the record, "conscientious objector" should be Pavlov for anti-war.

dhkendall wrote:Same here, I was relieved to see FJ (thanks, TPTB, for saving me from an 0/5 week!) and figured I'd show off by getting all four. "All right, we got Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, and the Va .. wait a minute, not a UN member. ... I was quite surprised to see Montenegro considered a "small country". Sure, by US standards (but then, what isn't?), but by European standards, it holds its own. Heck, it's almost 3 times larger than the European microstates put together!

Same basic train of thought here. "Ok, *scribbles down San Marino.* What are the other three... Monaco...Andorra...wait, what's left? (at the answer reveal) Montenegro is small?!

stevo4212 wrote:So, your response to my comment is that the Vatican is not a member of the UN. I say, it is a permanent observer, so, shame on Jeopardy for expecting a lay person to be able to distinguish between a member and a "permanent observer."

Well, from my perspective, I'm glad the game isn't tuned for the lay person! :D
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Bamaman » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:46 pm

Was Al Capone a conscientious objector to Prohibition?
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby jeff6286 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:05 pm

Bamaman wrote:Was Al Capone a conscientious objector to Prohibition?


Not conscientious, just an objector.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby BoK » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:21 pm

jeff6286 wrote:
Bamaman wrote:Was Al Capone a conscientious objector to Prohibition?


Not conscientious, just an objector.

I'm guessing Al Capone was a huge Prohibition fan. It made him very rich.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby marpocky » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Volante wrote:Same basic train of thought here. "Ok, *scribbles down San Marino.* What are the other three... Monaco...Andorra...wait, what's left? (at the answer reveal) Montenegro is small?!


I think the fact that they said "small countries" and not "microstates" excuses them here. Montenegro is certainly the least TOM-able of the 4, and I doubt they expected anyone to come up with that one first, but they wanted to give some sort of hint.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:13 pm

Finally scooped up the missing clues. I admit I had no freakin' clue on Axis for $200 or $400.

Also not surprised that Packers was my only get among teams. I didn't even pick up on "Bear down" being a TOM since I've NHO the Memphis Grizzlies.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:25 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:Finally scooped up the missing clues. I admit I had no freakin' clue on Axis for $200 or $400.

Also not surprised that Packers was my only get among teams. I didn't even pick up on "Bear down" being a TOM since I've NHO the Memphis Grizzlies.


Did you at least recognize Beale St = Memphis (and then remembered you have no idea what the name of Memphis' NBA team is?)
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:34 pm

dhkendall wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Finally scooped up the missing clues. I admit I had no freakin' clue on Axis for $200 or $400.

Also not surprised that Packers was my only get among teams. I didn't even pick up on "Bear down" being a TOM since I've NHO the Memphis Grizzlies.


Did you at least recognize Beale St = Memphis (and then remembered you have no idea what the name of Memphis' NBA team is?)


Walking in Memphis is one of my favorite songs, so yes, I know that Beale Street is probably the most famous street in Memphis.

I just didn't put two and two together when the clue came up.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby dhkendall » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:54 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
dhkendall wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Finally scooped up the missing clues. I admit I had no freakin' clue on Axis for $200 or $400.

Also not surprised that Packers was my only get among teams. I didn't even pick up on "Bear down" being a TOM since I've NHO the Memphis Grizzlies.


Did you at least recognize Beale St = Memphis (and then remembered you have no idea what the name of Memphis' NBA team is?)


Walking in Memphis is one of my favorite songs, so yes, I know that Beale Street is probably the most famous street in Memphis.

I just didn't put two and two together when the clue came up.


I was unaware that you have a song you like so much that isn't country or from a quirky animated show. For the record, I happen to enjoy the song as well (and yes, it's taught me a little about the city (for example, that W. C. Handy = Memphis as well), that and being the dispatch coordinator for the Memphis area at my former job for many years.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby TenPoundHammer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:40 pm

dhkendall wrote:I was unaware that you have a song you like so much that isn't country or from a quirky animated show.


It got to #74 on country. :-P

Seriously, I also like Bob Seger, Jim Croce, the Eagles, Barenaked Ladies, Hootie & the Blowfish, Kid Rock…
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby alietr » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:28 pm

stevo4212 wrote:Since I've already made some controversial remarks, let me add that I have a question about Ken Jennings. In the first game he played, he wrote the response to FJ, "Who is Jones?" Did we already settle the question of how that qualifies as a correct question? There are many people named Jones, on what universe is, Jones sufficiently uniquely identifying? This goes to my point yesterday, that someone could be destined for J! greatness, but still lose in his first time out.


It was quite controversial at the time, and the general feeling was that he got away with one.
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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby bpmod » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:36 pm

alietr wrote:
stevo4212 wrote:Since I've already made some controversial remarks, let me add that I have a question about Ken Jennings. In the first game he played, he wrote the response to FJ, "Who is Jones?" Did we already settle the question of how that qualifies as a correct question? There are many people named Jones, on what universe is, Jones sufficiently uniquely identifying? This goes to my point yesterday, that someone could be destined for J! greatness, but still lose in his first time out.


It was quite controversial at the time, and the general feeling was that he got away with one.

But why would the general feeling be that when dozens hundreds thousands before and since have responded with last name only as per the rules of the game?

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Re: Friday, April 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Postby Johnblue » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:39 am

I was in San Marino vert recently so that was an easy get. 5/5!!! I was surprised no one got Duke Ellington, especially with that tie depicted on the stamp. Easy boards but at least 2/3 players did well.
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