Monday, July 29, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[seaborgium]

Snoring infers sleeping, but sleeping does not infer snoring.

You infer sleeping from snoring, because snoring implies sleeping.

[Vanya]

Snoring infers sleeping, but sleeping does not infer snoring.

You infer sleeping from snoring, because snoring implies sleeping.

Zzzzz.

[Paucle]

You infer sleeping from snoring, because snoring implies sleeping.

Exactly. Snoring is incapable of inferring anything. (Although certainly Edvīns Šnore can infer.)

[jeff6286]

I can't see all three players wagering everything in FJ! during Kids' week?

You can't??? Did you not see the last Teen Tournament?

Definitely a trickier FJ than the usual Kids' Week fare, and interesting to see what different directions the kids went with it. I would have loved to see someone guess zyzzyx.

[opusthepenguin]

Snoring infers sleeping, but sleeping does not infer snoring.

You infer sleeping from snoring, because snoring implies sleeping.

Maybe Volante's just old school. The OED has citations for "infer" meaning "imply" from 1530 to 1973. These include quotations from Thomas More, John Milton, Sir Walter Scott, John Stuart Mill, and Mervyn Peake.

[Onairb]

At first I was going to be embarrassed to report a miss on FJ, but the more I thought about it, I'm proud of missing this one. What a Godforsakenly awful bit of writing that was! I came up with mosquito -- it fits what is written in the clue, but wouldn't be right because they're going by the definition in the dictionary (presumably; I haven't looked). That clue would have stunk for adults, but to throw that on kids? Tsk, tsk! How did it make it through their review process? And for that matter, just exactly what "knowledge" was it pretending to test them on? We just looked at each other with "Huh?" expressions when it came up. I could go on (and on), but I'll stop here.

Doesn't anybody read comic strips anymore? 'Zs' (anywhere from one to three) have been used to denote 'snoring' since the medium was invented. (Think of Snoopy asleep on his doghouse).
Sad miss/get in the sports category: Nobody knew baseball=Cooperstown, yet everybody knew 'Scuzzbag druggie who cheated at Tour de France'='Lance Armstrong'.

[Volante]

Snoring infers sleeping, but sleeping does not infer snoring.

You infer sleeping from snoring, because snoring implies sleeping.

Maybe Volante's just old school. The OED has citations for "infer" meaning "imply" from 1530 to 1973. These include quotations from Thomas More, John Milton, Sir Walter Scott, John Stuart Mill, and Mervyn Peake.

At least I've stopped saying "the USA are..."!

[Volante]

Sad miss/get in the sports category: Nobody knew baseball=Cooperstown, yet everybody knew 'Scuzzbag druggie who cheated at Tour de France'='Lance Armstrong'.

To be fair, no one knows where Cooperstown is.


(AP photo, from http://deadspin.com/no-one-came-to-the- ... -949257714 )

[This Is Kirk!]

Doesn't anybody read comic strips anymore? 'Zs' (anywhere from one to three) have been used to denote 'snoring' since the medium was invented. (Think of Snoopy asleep on his doghouse).

I think this has been covered but I think in comics it's tough to know whether the Z's infer (or imply, if you prefer) snoring or merely sleep. "Catching some Z's" means to sleep, after all, not to snore.

Then you get the added frustration of trying to parse the clue. "Are they looking for 'zzz' or are they looking for 'snoring?'" Seems a little onerous for a child.

[kettledrum]

I also said the Wimpy Kid instead of the name of the character. I counted it wrong.

Nearly instaget FJ after first ruling out zyzzyva which I knew was the last entry from the Scrabble Dictionary (and probably many other dictionaries too).

[drshoema]

Onairb wrote » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:20 am



alietr wrote:At first I was going to be embarrassed to report a miss on FJ, but the more I thought about it, I'm proud of missing this one. What a Godforsakenly awful bit of writing that was! I came up with mosquito -- it fits what is written in the clue, but wouldn't be right because they're going by the definition in the dictionary (presumably; I haven't looked). That clue would have stunk for adults, but to throw that on kids? Tsk, tsk! How did it make it through their review process? And for that matter, just exactly what "knowledge" was it pretending to test them on? We just looked at each other with "Huh?" expressions when it came up. I could go on (and on), but I'll stop here.

Doesn't anybody read comic strips anymore? 'Zs' (anywhere from one to three) have been used to denote 'snoring' since the medium was invented. (Think of Snoopy asleep on his doghouse).
Sad miss/get in the sports category: Nobody knew baseball=Cooperstown, yet everybody knew 'Scuzzbag druggie who cheated at Tour de France'='Lance Armstrong'.OnairbLoyal Jeopardista Posts: 243Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:45 pm



For what it's worth, Jonathan has been haunted by the baseball question for the six months since his match taped. He's a pretty good baseball player and has known kids who played in Cooperstown little league tournaments. He knew baseball but was 2nd guessing himself to see if it could be another sport when time ran out. He has no doubt his baseball friends will be calling soon.

He also suffered from not answering galaxy at the end of the game. He says he was frozen because he had the lead and didn't want to blow it. His misses of "Erie Canal" (pattern match on New York waterway) and "candy ring" weren't too bad -although one friend of his keeps asking him for a piece of his candy ring every time he sees him....

Jonathan has little grief about Final Jeopardy. He genuinely wasn't going to get it. I think it is a little more like a riddle than a typical Kids FJ question. Given thirty minutes, I think he works it out, but he was blind-sided and kept trying to figure out the "obvious" answer which just wasn't coming. I don't think the question was unfair - just hard. I think it is the hardest of the five FJ questions, but I'm sure the board will draw their own conclusion - one of them is close.

David (and Jonathan) Shoemaker
Good point on the betting strategy. Jonathan knew to beat 2nd place by $1 if they both got it right, but went for $100 isntead. This was a rare case where it made a difference as the perfect better could have bet $401. By the way, they do play a tiebreaker if there is a tie.

[opusthepenguin]

David (and Jonathan) Shoemaker
Good point on the betting strategy. Jonathan knew to beat 2nd place by $1 if they both got it right, but went for $100 isntead. This was a rare case where it made a difference as the perfect better could have bet $401. By the way, they do play a tiebreaker if there is a tie.

Definitely a rare case, as you say. Usually, the $1 shutout bet is a minimum and it's often safe to go higher. In general, his strategy was sound. Betting in even hundreds makes the math easier when a silly mistake can cost. You'd hate to notice too late that you weren't wagering to win by $1, you were wagering to lose by $99.

[Magna]

I said snoring, and then thought oh wait, crap, could it be a mosquito buzz?

I came up with mosquito -- it fits what is written in the clue, but wouldn't be right because they're going by the definition in the dictionary (presumably; I haven't looked).

I thought of buzzing too - I think it would be acceptable. The clue was ambiguous about whether the dictionary used "zzz" to represent the sound, or whether "zzz" was the last entry in the dictionary, and used (by people in general) to represent the sound. But I think the second interpretation is more reasonable - a dictionary doesn't need to represent the sound of snoring. One or more buzzing insects (flies, gnats, mosquitoes) certainly can be an annoying sound.

[alietr]

I said snoring, and then thought oh wait, crap, could it be a mosquito buzz?

I came up with mosquito -- it fits what is written in the clue, but wouldn't be right because they're going by the definition in the dictionary (presumably; I haven't looked).

I thought of buzzing too - I think it would be acceptable. The clue was ambiguous about whether the dictionary used "zzz" to represent the sound, or whether "zzz" was the last entry in the dictionary, and used (by people in general) to represent the sound. But I think the second interpretation is more reasonable - a dictionary doesn't need to represent the sound of snoring. One or more buzzing insects (flies, gnats, mosquitoes) certainly can be an annoying sound.

You may be right. I thought it was better pinned than that, but it does look like it can be interpreted as you're saying. But even if I count myself as correct, the clue still sucked big time.

[Paucle]

"sleeping" isn't a sound. I'd say no.
Buzzing almost always starts with a "b." I poked around a bit online to find a cartoon or comics panel showing an insect buzz represented by zzzz and failed but my search skills suck.
I found Tuesday's FJ actually tougher, though I did manage to come up with that one too.

[scaphio]

I poked around a bit online to find a cartoon or comics panel showing an insect buzz represented by zzzz and failed but my search skills suck.

You should have poked around The Outer Limits, specifically the episode in which bees turn their queen into a seductive human woman. The episode title is "ZZZZZ":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667853/?ref_=fn_ep_tt_1

[OrangeSAM]

This is the Father of Jonathan here. We're checking out the site! Final Jeopardy was rough for all three. Looking at old questions, I would guess that Jonathan would nail greater than 80 percent. This one really threw him. You also have to remember that kids these days don't have a great idea of just how thorough the unabridged dictionary is.

We had a great trip. Truly a once in a lifetime experience.

David (and Jonathan) Shoemaker

Glad you guys enjoyed it and congratulations!

Reading this, I realize it's been a while since I've picked up a printed dictionary, abridged or un-. The electronic versions are just so convenient.

Looking at the group photo on the J! site, I noticed that the shot had only 14 kids (Why would Erin be missing?) and the caption 13 names (omitting John).

...
Sad miss/get in the sports category: Nobody knew baseball=Cooperstown, yet everybody knew 'Scuzzbag druggie who cheated at Tour de France'='Lance Armstrong'.

Mrs OS and I found it interesting that the writers would include something so tawdry on a Kids Week board. At least someone drew the line on the Liquor is Quicker cat.

[drshoema]

This is the Father of Jonathan here. We're checking out the site! Final Jeopardy was rough for all three. Looking at old questions, I would guess that Jonathan would nail greater than 80 percent. This one really threw him. You also have to remember that kids these days don't have a great idea of just how thorough the unabridged dictionary is.

We had a great trip. Truly a once in a lifetime experience.

David (and Jonathan) Shoemaker

Glad you guys enjoyed it and congratulations!

Reading this, I realize it's been a while since I've picked up a printed dictionary, abridged or un-. The electronic versions are just so convenient.

Looking at the group photo on the J! site, I noticed that the shot had only 14 kids (Why would Erin be missing?) and the caption 13 names (omitting John).

...
Sad miss/get in the sports category: Nobody knew baseball=Cooperstown, yet everybody knew 'Scuzzbag druggie who cheated at Tour de France'='Lance Armstrong'.

Mrs OS and I found it interesting that the writers would include something so tawdry on a Kids Week board. At least someone drew the line on the Liquor is Quicker cat.

Our game was the very first, and Erin and family decided to go after the game rather than wait for the other four plus lunch. The picture was taken at the end of day party.

David (and Jonathan) Shoemaker

[TenPoundHammer]

You should have poked around The Outer Limits, specifically the episode in which bees turn their queen into a seductive human woman. The episode title is "ZZZZZ":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667853/?ref_=fn_ep_tt_1

"An Amazon attack. A deadly bee weapon. Bees. My God."

[Magna]

I poked around a bit online to find a cartoon or comics panel showing an insect buzz represented by zzzz and failed but my search skills suck.

You should have poked around The Outer Limits, specifically the episode in which bees turn their queen into a seductive human woman. The episode title is "ZZZZZ":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667853/?ref_=fn_ep_tt_1

The clue didn't specify comics or cartoons - just "used".

Fwiw, there are some great resources on comic books you might be interested in:
Online dictionary: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/eppp ... or/kaboom/
Page on comic book/strip lettering: http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml
The radio show A Way with Words has also featured some comic book and comic strip reference books but their blog seems to be down right now.