Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, dhkendall, trainman, econgator

User avatar
Volante
Harbinger of the Doomed Lemur
Posts: 5779
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:20 pm

silverscreentest wrote:
georgespelvin wrote:Except that CRP is the acronym and CREEP is not an acronym. CREEP uses three letters from one word (Re-elect) sandwiched around the first letter of "Committee" and "President". Are there other acronyms in which more than one letter from a word is used as part of the acronym (this is a serious question, I can't think of any at the moment).
UNICEF (United NatIons ChildrEn's Fund).
RAND (Research ANd Development)
START (STrategic Arms Reduction Treaty)

User avatar
georgespelvin
The Charlie Brown of Jeopardy Auditions
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by georgespelvin » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:47 pm

OK, I see the point on the acronyms.
I used to be AWSOP but wanted to be more theatrical.

User avatar
georgespelvin
The Charlie Brown of Jeopardy Auditions
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by georgespelvin » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:49 pm

davey wrote:
georgespelvin wrote:I'm just getting around to this game and I am shocked that no one yet has commented on the $1000 clue in Acronyms. The acronym for the Committee to Re-Elect the President was CRP, not CREEP. CREEP was the way that Nixon's political opponents and journalists spelled it and many people pronounced it, however just because an acronym is pronounced a certain way doesn't mean that the acronym itself is phonetic.

Or am I the only one old enough here to know this.

I said Katherine for Bianca's sister and thought that Kate would also be acceptable. To make matters a little grayer though, at least for subjectively for fun, I think that most (if not all of the times) she is called Kate is when Petruchio is belittling her as shortened names were certainly not acceptable in those days (just try calling Richard III "Dick" to his face, go ahead, try it).
On Kate-
You can go to the Shakespeare concordance I linked earlier in the thread to test your theory, but when he asks for her kiss, Petruchio is surely not belittling her.

On CREEP-
There's no such thing as ObamaCare, either.
"Obamacare" isn't an acronym. Regarding Kate, when Petruchio asks for the kiss, one could argue that he is flaunting his dominance. Personally, I find this play almost as odious as "The Merchant of Venice" these days.
I used to be AWSOP but wanted to be more theatrical.

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2889
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:10 pm

georgespelvin wrote:
davey wrote:
georgespelvin wrote:I'm just getting around to this game and I am shocked that no one yet has commented on the $1000 clue in Acronyms. The acronym for the Committee to Re-Elect the President was CRP, not CREEP. CREEP was the way that Nixon's political opponents and journalists spelled it and many people pronounced it, however just because an acronym is pronounced a certain way doesn't mean that the acronym itself is phonetic.

Or am I the only one old enough here to know this.

I said Katherine for Bianca's sister and thought that Kate would also be acceptable. To make matters a little grayer though, at least for subjectively for fun, I think that most (if not all of the times) she is called Kate is when Petruchio is belittling her as shortened names were certainly not acceptable in those days (just try calling Richard III "Dick" to his face, go ahead, try it).
On Kate-
You can go to the Shakespeare concordance I linked earlier in the thread to test your theory, but when he asks for her kiss, Petruchio is surely not belittling her.

On CREEP-
There's no such thing as ObamaCare, either.
"Obamacare" isn't an acronym. Regarding Kate, when Petruchio asks for the kiss, one could argue that he is flaunting his dominance. Personally, I find this play almost as odious as "The Merchant of Venice" these days.
Fair enough in the second case, but neither of these responds to the main points I was making.

Both of those plays are still enormously popular, since productions usually confront the modern critiques of their problematic elements.

User avatar
dhkendall
Pursuing the Dream
Posts: 8741
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Contact:

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:16 pm

silverscreentest wrote:
georgespelvin wrote:Except that CRP is the acronym and CREEP is not an acronym. CREEP uses three letters from one word (Re-elect) sandwiched around the first letter of "Committee" and "President". Are there other acronyms in which more than one letter from a word is used as part of the acronym (this is a serious question, I can't think of any at the moment).
UNICEF (United NatIons ChildrEn's Fund).
Actually I think it's United NatIons Children's Education Fund (but there's that I that's still there, making it qualify).

Is that the difference between an acronym and an initialism?
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

User avatar
OrangeSAM
(Unranked)
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OrangeSAM » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:20 pm

dhkendall wrote:
silverscreentest wrote:
georgespelvin wrote:Except that CRP is the acronym and CREEP is not an acronym. CREEP uses three letters from one word (Re-elect) sandwiched around the first letter of "Committee" and "President". Are there other acronyms in which more than one letter from a word is used as part of the acronym (this is a serious question, I can't think of any at the moment).
UNICEF (United NatIons ChildrEn's Fund).
Actually I think it's United NatIons Children's Education Fund (but there's that I that's still there, making it qualify).

Is that the difference between an acronym and an initialism?
Per Wikipedia:
(I)ts name was shortened from the original United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund but it has continued to be known by the popular acronym based on this previous title.
OCSam

User avatar
econgator
Let's Go Mets!
Posts: 7467
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 am

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:36 pm

Then we'll go with
SONAR (SOund Navigation And Ranging)
and RADAR (RAdio Detection and Ranging)

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 5905
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:34 pm

dhkendall wrote:Actually I think it's United NatIons Children's Education Fund (but there's that I that's still there, making it qualify).

Is that the difference between an acronym and an initialism?
Depends who you ask. To me, an acronym must be pronounced as a word rather than a series of letters. Most acronyms are initialisms since they are formed from the initial letters of a set of words. E.g. NATO, SCUBA. I say it still counts as an initialism even if you take more than one initial letter. E.g. SoNAR, NaBisCo, CReeP. But if the acronym includes letters from non-initial parts of the constituent words, it's not an initialism. E.g. GROSS (Get Rid Of Slimy girlS). There's also amphetamine (from alpha-methyl-phenethylamine), but that really pushes the limits and I would hesitate to call it an acronym. Plenty of initialisms are not acronyms: e.g. FBI, IBM, NAACP. Some go both ways. E.g. URL (an earl or a you-are-ell?), FAQ (a fack or an eff-ay-cue?)

But I don't run the language, so people don't adhere to my rules and they use words however they want ant it's total anarchy out there.

User avatar
El Jefe
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:26 am

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by El Jefe » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:07 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
But I don't run the language, so people don't adhere to my rules and they use words however they want ant it's total anarchy out there.
What are the rules for total antarchy? I mean we all know they go marching somehow!

Jeffrey

SouperAvram
Just Starting Out on JBoard
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by SouperAvram » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:15 pm

Woppy T wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:02 am
Second game in a row with ridiculous SAS on the last clue of the game. You have nothing to lose, make a guess!!!!
I actually had $1000 to lose. I had absolutely no idea what the correct response was, but had a lock on second place with the $2000 consolation prize. Had I guessed (and I had no chance to guess correctly), Kathy would have had more than half my score going into Final, and would have had a chance to finish in 2nd place, leaving me with a $1000 consolation prize.

SouperAvram
Just Starting Out on JBoard
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 pm

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by SouperAvram » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:49 am
legendneverdies wrote:Some of us who saw the scores on the second DD in DJ! at clue 29 probably screamed to wager $800.
Not me. $5,000 works fine there. Jerry's shot for a nice round number was not only $2,200 too small to prevent Avram's breaking the lock with an extra $2,000, it was also $200 shy of putting Jerry in position for a safe preemptive strike at the next clue. Luckily for Jerry (although it's moot either way) Avram didn't have any killer instinct to take a stab on the last clue. (My wild guess would have been right.)

So concludes my first regular-game 5/5 FJ week this season.
It wasn't a lack of killer instinct, just a lack of a reasonable guess. It would have been nice to be in a position to win going into Final, but had I made any guess it would have been wrong, and would have left Kathy with more than half my score going into Final, for a chance that I could be overtaken and left with a $1000 consolation prize instead of a $2000 consolation prize.

I get that to the Jeopardy diehards I played wrong, but insuring that extra $1000 and not making myself look worse to the non diehards by getting a wrong answer on national TV seems like the best play I could make at the time. With the way we answered in Final, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 5353
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:02 pm

SouperAvram wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:49 am
legendneverdies wrote:Some of us who saw the scores on the second DD in DJ! at clue 29 probably screamed to wager $800.
Not me. $5,000 works fine there. Jerry's shot for a nice round number was not only $2,200 too small to prevent Avram's breaking the lock with an extra $2,000, it was also $200 shy of putting Jerry in position for a safe preemptive strike at the next clue. Luckily for Jerry (although it's moot either way) Avram didn't have any killer instinct to take a stab on the last clue. (My wild guess would have been right.)

So concludes my first regular-game 5/5 FJ week this season.
It wasn't a lack of killer instinct, just a lack of a reasonable guess. It would have been nice to be in a position to win going into Final, but had I made any guess it would have been wrong, and would have left Kathy with more than half my score going into Final, for a chance that I could be overtaken and left with a $1000 consolation prize instead of a $2000 consolation prize.

I get that to the Jeopardy diehards I played wrong, but insuring that extra $1000 and not making myself look worse to the non diehards by getting a wrong answer on national TV seems like the best play I could make at the time. With the way we answered in Final, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Kathy had $3,600 to your $11,600; losing $2,000 off your score wouldn't have affected your lock on second place. Other than not having any answer at all (and I'm unconvinced that that's possible in a "Shakespearean relatives" clue that names a historical English king), there was no reason not to ring in.

[edit: I suppose there could be some concern that if you were wrong, Kathy could rebound, and then the scores would have been $5,600 to $9,600. It's hard for me to offer ways to counter that worry, since a wrong answer from you would give her more time to think, or worse, eliminate one of the choices she's narrowed it down to. The other thought I had in light of rebound worries was to give her a chance to beat you to the buzzer, and then ring in when she doesn't, in confidence that she hasn't got an answer, but she might be laying off in recognition that her only chance at second place is for you to get it wrong before she gets it right. So it's slightly more complex than "You're more than $2,000 above a lock and less than $2,000 below another, so you should guess."]

You acquitted yourself well as a contestant, and I'm sorry that my words may have come off unkind, and that you had to come up against a pretty tough champion.

[note: normally I refer to categories in all caps, but under these circumstances I was worried it would appear like I was obnoxiously emphasizing the category title.]

IronNeck
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1270
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:26 am

Re: Friday, December 27, 2013 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 pm

SouperAvram wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:15 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:02 am
Second game in a row with ridiculous SAS on the last clue of the game. You have nothing to lose, make a guess!!!!
I actually had $1000 to lose. I had absolutely no idea what the correct response was, but had a lock on second place with the $2000 consolation prize. Had I guessed (and I had no chance to guess correctly), Kathy would have had more than half my score going into Final, and would have had a chance to finish in 2nd place, leaving me with a $1000 consolation prize.
With all due respect, seaborgium is right here. I understand that in the heat of the moment, you might not have realized the situation. But it was the wrong play, and I'm surprised you're trying to justify it 4+ years later.

Assuming you got it wrong, Kathy, who had had only answered 6 clues correctly all game, and 0 in the Shakespeare category, would have had to beat Jerry on the buzzer if he knew it AND get the correct answer merely to be on the wrong side of a crush situation against you going into Final Jeopardy.

Let's say the chances that Kathy gets the $2000 clue on a rebound are 10%. We know that the percentage of times a crushed (less than 2/3rds of the next player's score) opponent overcomes that deficit is 15% of the time. Ergo, we're talking about a situation that happens 1.5% of the time.

In other words, the expected value of not buzzing in is ($2000-$1000)*0.015= $15. An extra fifteen bucks.

Now, let's look at what would have happened if you had buzzed in and got it right. I agree with seaborgium; I don't know how you can assign a zero percent chance to getting it correct.

EVEN assuming you know absolutely nothing about Shakespeare and a single work he wrote, which I very much doubt considering you got the $400 clue for Hamlet correct, how difficult would it be name a random male English monarch from what you perceive to be the general time period of Edward IV? (And certainly, Richard III's fame far exceeds the Shakespeare play of the same name)

At the very, very least, you have a 5% chance doing that, no? Well, that's a 5% chance to get into a crush situation.

Since you would have likely bet it all then, you would have won $27,200 0.75% of the time, and your EV would be ($27,200-$2,000)*0.0075 = $189.00

An extra $189. So, even assuming that Kathy had two times as much chance of getting the clue as you did (very unlikely), the choice to guess would still have been over 10 times better.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], dinghammer, Elijah Baley and 41 guests