Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4999
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

I missed most of the show, but you obviously did something right. Nice job, Arthur!

Golf
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1832
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf »

ArthurChu wrote:so a ton of my studying was focused on figuring out the game-theory side of Jeopardy and how to optimize my chances of winning through strategic choices.
ArthurChu wrote:People underbet on DDs way more than they overbet if you really look at it from a game-theoretical standpoint.
Oh yeah, this is what I like to see.

Zhankfor wrote:Had a really hard time following all the Bouncing around...
And people say the Rubin Bounce is worthless.

Bamaman
Also Receiving Votes
Posts: 9922
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

Congrats on your win and retro good luck tonight.

Why did you offer a strong champ a tie rather than making the shut out bet?

harrumph
Voyeur
Posts: 1701
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Princeton, NJ

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by harrumph »

ArthurChu wrote:
Sherm wrote:Julie wasn't as impressive on Tuesday, but she was still the best overall player. I really felt she ran out of board or she was going to take over first going into FJ. Arthur taking the true daily double in a $2000 clue, when it is the first category clue asked, really took some serious stones. If he misses that, she has a lock going into FJ! Lets just say, Mr. Chu doesn't lack for confidence.
People underbet on DDs way more than they overbet if you really look at it from a game-theoretical standpoint. Julie, as people are pointing out, was killing with the buzzer and with the high-value DJ gets. I felt like with my buzzer problems in this game and Julie's broad knowledge base the "buffer" I'd get from a high-value DD going into FJ was absolutely necessary for me to still have a chance at taking 1st in this game and so the risk (compared to letting Julie continue to steamroll) was worth it.

I'd probably be singing a completely different tune if I hadn't pulled "bilge" out of my butt though. (Eww, that sounds gross.)
Neat to see someone recognize a situation and act on it, well deserved win.

User avatar
ArthurChu
Mad Genius Who Destroyed Jeopardy!
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ArthurChu »

FWIW I live-tweeted this episode and I'll be live-tweeting my return tonight. Follow me at @arthur_affect if interested.

User avatar
ArthurChu
Mad Genius Who Destroyed Jeopardy!
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ArthurChu »

Bamaman wrote:Congrats on your win and retro good luck tonight.

Why did you offer a strong champ a tie rather than making the shut out bet?
Because I was convinced by that guy with the "Final Wager" videos that "go for the tie" is a better choice from a game-theory standpoint even if the champ is strong. I'd rather still come back to face a strong opponent on a tie than risk losing the game on a Triple Stumper because my extra dollar left me a dollar short.

User avatar
ElendilPickle
ToC Enabler
Posts: 2637
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ElendilPickle »

alietr wrote:I can't believe Jeopardy would endorse a far-right philosophy like Objectivism! I am NEVER WATCHING THE SHOW AGAIN!
I'm tempted to go post this on Facebook.

ETA welcome to JBoard, Arthur, and congratulations!

Bamaman
Also Receiving Votes
Posts: 9922
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

ElendilPickle wrote:
alietr wrote:I can't believe Jeopardy would endorse a far-right philosophy like Objectivism! I am NEVER WATCHING THE SHOW AGAIN!
I'm tempted to go post this on Facebook.

ETA welcome to JBoard, Arthur, and congratulations!
Nothing on Rand, but someone didn't like Arthur's wardrobe selection.

User avatar
El Jefe
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:26 am

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by El Jefe »

ArthurChu wrote:Hey all! Like many J! contestants I discovered this board early on after I got the Call, read it obsessively while preparing and have been lurking ever since waiting to finally reveal myself.
[...]
I am not in fact an Objectivist -- I am familiar with Ayn Rand due to my massive Ayn Rand hatedom rather than fandom, and am uncomfortable with how hatedom and fandom are really two sides of the same coin.
Greetings Arthur!

From the speed at which you chose clues you clearly ingratiated yourself to the crowd here quite nicely, probably imagining the groans from some posters if you had left unselected clues up there and been able to help it. Retro-grats!

Ah yes, Ayn Rand, darling of a certain political name-dropping Lip Service crew. Not having read any of her books (like most of the people who say they have?) I wonder if they are objectively (!) good reads even if one does not support her antisocial extremes.

I mean, could it be like The (various) Bible(s), where ignorami twist a few awful bits around to suit their purposes but overall you don't have to be a zealot to appreciate it? Clearly plenty of clowns are projecting a lot into her books and I'm trying not to hold that against them. Sometimes you don't really need to read entire books to know how awful some are (having read a few lines here and there of Twilight, it's indeed plum awful).

Jeffrey

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 7644
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

ArthurChu wrote:Hey all! Like many J! contestants I discovered this board early on after I got the Call, read it obsessively while preparing and have been lurking ever since waiting to finally reveal myself.

So here I am. Note: I was terrified of Julie after watching her first episode and am as surprised that she didn't go on a long run as you all are. Didn't know that she used to be a quizbowl champ but it doesn't surprise me.

I am not in fact an Objectivist -- I am familiar with Ayn Rand due to my massive Ayn Rand hatedom rather than fandom, and am uncomfortable with how hatedom and fandom are really two sides of the same coin. The FJ was still very much a tease-out for me, not something I actually knew.

Thanks for the compliments on "strategy" -- I knew going in that there was very little I could do to greatly expand my available base of knowledge within the month after I got the Call, so a ton of my studying was focused on figuring out the game-theory side of Jeopardy and how to optimize my chances of winning through strategic choices. No plan survives contact with the enemy, of course -- or with the adrenaline rush and nerves of actually being jet-lagged, wearing uncomfortable clothes and staring at the glare of the studio lights -- but it served me well enough on this episode, at least.

Hope you'll be (retroactively) rooting for me tonight!
Welcome, Arthur! As a matter of tradition, winning contestants generally show up or de-lurk here a day or two before their first game. That way they can coyly tell us to be sure and watch. Nothing you can do about it now, of course. So I guess this is just a heads up to the lurkers. (Oh, and lurkers? If you're a contestant who lost, don't show up here until the game has aired. Ideally, wait until at least one person has made an unkind comment about you. That makes it more hilarious.)

Very nice win, Arthur. Very good, and very gutsy the way you took Julie's buzz-saw qualities to heart and made the most of your only Daily Double. Cesar hadn't learned the same lesson from watching Julie play. Or if he did, he just couldn't make himself act on it. Or maybe, since he was holding his own for his first DD and ahead by his second, he conned himself into believing Julie wasn't that tough after all. I guess we'll never know unless... hang on. Let me try something.

Cesar has to be the stupidest contestant I have ever seen! Also, he smelled funny.

There. That might do it. I'll continue chatting while we wait to see if he shows. Even if Cesar had gone all-in with both his DDs, he'd still have been in third place going into FJ.

I think you made a good decision to study strategy rather than cram for the test. I think I would have bet the extra dollar in your position. I just don't see any reason Julie or Cesar would bet to drop down to exactly $2800. If they know enough to understand that your shutout bet would drop you down to $2799, they know enough to make a better bet than one that drops them to $2800. But there might be an angle I'm missing. That's the thing that would worry me most as an FJ wagerer. So maybe in my own game I'd come to see the wisdom of your decision. Don't risk even a single dollar that you don't have to.

Going into FJ, were you worried that Julie would bet small? Here were the scores again:

Arthur Chu: $20,000
Julie Singer: $18,600
Cesar Perez-Gonzalez: $9,000

If I were Julie, I wouldn't bet more than $600. That way she wins/ties automatically as long as you (Arthur) miss FJ and bet at least $1400. Her problem is that you might employ the counter-strategy of also betting small. If you bet less than $800 against her small bet, she can't win no matter what. Your problem is that they don't teach wagering strategy in Quiz Bowl. So if you make that small bet, you might just be outfoxing yourself and Julie will end up winning with some ridiculous wager like $18400.

Did those thoughts go through your head and tempt you before you decided the shutout-tie bet was your best option? I think it was the right move (or at most, one dollar shy of it :D ). But it really piles on the pressure to get FJ right. Mega-kudos for teasing out the right response under those circumstances. I didn't manage to do it on my couch, even though I had all the information I needed right in my head. That experience had to leave you breathing heavy and sweating like Nixon debating JFK. I can't imagine changing clothes, getting "freshened up" by the makeup crew (We need more powder! STAT!!!!), and walking back onstage for round 2.

Did you notice, though, that you would have won on a miss? Fate and your fellow-contestants were trying to hand you a win no matter what. I don't know what you were so worried about, you big baby. :lol:

User avatar
El Jefe
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:26 am

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by El Jefe »

jeff6286 wrote:Literary Quotes
A maxim of Ayn Rand was "Man's ego is" this "of human progress".


Spoiler
What is the Fountainhead? Julie said the measure; Cesar said equivalent.
This is an error; Cesar wrote
Spoiler
'equalivalent'
And Alex graciously (/editedly?) took the blame for supposedly poor reading!


Jeffrey

User avatar
Rex Kramer
Jeopardy! TOCer
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:08 am

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Rex Kramer »

Bamaman wrote:
ElendilPickle wrote:
alietr wrote:I can't believe Jeopardy would endorse a far-right philosophy like Objectivism! I am NEVER WATCHING THE SHOW AGAIN!
I'm tempted to go post this on Facebook.

ETA welcome to JBoard, Arthur, and congratulations!
Nothing on Rand, but someone didn't like Arthur's wardrobe selection.
Judging by recent contestants' sartorial selections, the very concept of "wardrobe selection" appears to have been abandoned by TPTB. I wore a jacket and tie to be in the *audience*, but some guy on stage recently couldn't even be bothered to wear a *collar*.

Rex

User avatar
ArthurChu
Mad Genius Who Destroyed Jeopardy!
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ArthurChu »

TBH I didn't really think through it that much -- I planned ahead of time for being basically unable to actually think through strategic moves with the PAs breathing over my shoulder impatiently waiting for my wager, so instead before the show taped I basically committed myself to following the "standard" FJ wagering rules to the letter regardless of what actually happened so that at least I could say my choices were "optimal" by one definition of the word.

It worked out for me in this game -- at the very least I think Cesar and Julie were slightly psyched out by the fact that I wrote my wager down in five seconds without really thinking about it.

User avatar
Vermonter
2003 College Champion
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:57 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vermonter »

ArthurChu wrote:
Bamaman wrote:Congrats on your win and retro good luck tonight.

Why did you offer a strong champ a tie rather than making the shut out bet?
Because I was convinced by that guy with the "Final Wager" videos that "go for the tie" is a better choice from a game-theory standpoint even if the champ is strong. I'd rather still come back to face a strong opponent on a tie than risk losing the game on a Triple Stumper because my extra dollar left me a dollar short.
Sweeeeet! I'm sure you saw I gave you some props.

Against a strong player like Julie, I wouldn't even consider the "small" max-$800 wager. She's got confidence in her game and is going for broke.
Last edited by Vermonter on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hate bad wagering? Me too. Join me at The Final Wager.

User avatar
ArthurChu
Mad Genius Who Destroyed Jeopardy!
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ArthurChu »

Jeopardy haters on Facebook and Twitter seem to care a lot about stuff like wardrobe, the stories you tell Alex, etc. that are extremely irrelevant to the game, and I would honestly be shocked if anyone who knew they had the chance of winning tens of thousands of dollars on the line spent any more than a few seconds thinking about what they were going to wear.

legendneverdies
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:52 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by legendneverdies »

Dress codes have been relaxed for J! and WOF in recent years(WOF had a jacket/tie dress code until maybe 10 years ago).

User avatar
OrangeSAM
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2097
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OrangeSAM »

Rex Kramer wrote:
Bamaman wrote:
ElendilPickle wrote:
alietr wrote:I can't believe Jeopardy would endorse a far-right philosophy like Objectivism! I am NEVER WATCHING THE SHOW AGAIN!
I'm tempted to go post this on Facebook.

ETA welcome to JBoard, Arthur, and congratulations!
Nothing on Rand, but someone didn't like Arthur's wardrobe selection.
Judging by recent contestants' sartorial selections, the very concept of "wardrobe selection" appears to have been abandoned by TPTB. I wore a jacket and tie to be in the *audience*, but some guy on stage recently couldn't even be bothered to wear a *collar*.

Rex
I can tell you that Rex even wears a coat and tie to pub trivia. :D
OCSam

User avatar
nserven
At the Clam Shack
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:05 pm
Location: Greenfield, MA

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by nserven »

legendneverdies wrote:Dress codes have been relaxed for J! and WOF in recent years(WOF had a jacket/tie dress code until maybe 10 years ago).
That became apparent to me when I was browsing the J! Yearbook site. The 1980s was apparently the era of the blue suit.

Bamaman
Also Receiving Votes
Posts: 9922
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

I suspect the number of people who have a strong opinion on Rand's writings (either pro or con) is much higher than the number who have actually read one of her books.

I think in Cesar's place I'd have bet to drop to $2,801.

User avatar
sarah0114
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:15 am
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by sarah0114 »

El Jefe wrote:Not having read any of her books (like most of the people who say they have?) I wonder if they are objectively (!) good reads even if one does not support her antisocial extremes.
I haven't read them either, but IIRC, Atlas Shrugged has a monologue in it that goes on for about 50 pages. That doesn't sound like great reading to me.

Post Reply