Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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opusthepenguin
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:52 am

davey wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
groovitude wrote:The Jack London DD was vicious negbait.
Agreed. I don't think it's playing fair to do that on a DD. The trivium in question is far from common knowledge. So a contestant gets stuck trying to decide which way the writers are trying to psych her out. On a regular clue, I'd say this would've been sneaky but fair. Caveat buzzer and all that. I'm glad Molly didn't lose due to their dirty trick.
A Daily Double gives you more time to think, not less...Why would "The Call of the Tame" inspire "The Call of the Wild"?
To borrow a phrase you were about to use when I interrupted you to say this, a moment's reflection will tell you. It makes perfect sense that London might see a San Francisco Chronicle article titled "The Call of the Tame" and be inspired to explore the flip side. Heck, "The Call of the Tame" wouldn't have been a completely inappropriate title for "The Call of the Wild." The story has both calls in view. Buck's got to turn his back on the one to heed the other.
davey wrote:Of course it'll pop into anyone's head but a moment's reflection will tell you it doesn't add up. It helps to know a bit about Jack London's books besides the titles too, of course.
It adds up just fine to me as noted above. I'm familiar with the plots of both books.

Unless you know the dates, this is pure mind-reading. Do the writers want me to make a connection between similar sounding titles and related themes, or do they want me to say which Jack London work could more plausibly have borrowed that San Francisco Chronicle title and used it without alteration, irony, subtlety, or slight change of focus? Apparently they wanted the latter. Apparently they should move to New Jersey and get jobs writing Reading Comprehension questions for the SAT. Bah. Meh.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:06 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
davey wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
groovitude wrote:The Jack London DD was vicious negbait.
Agreed. I don't think it's playing fair to do that on a DD. The trivium in question is far from common knowledge. So a contestant gets stuck trying to decide which way the writers are trying to psych her out. On a regular clue, I'd say this would've been sneaky but fair. Caveat buzzer and all that. I'm glad Molly didn't lose due to their dirty trick.
A Daily Double gives you more time to think, not less...Why would "The Call of the Tame" inspire "The Call of the Wild"?
To borrow a phrase you were about to use when I interrupted you to say this, a moment's reflection will tell you. It makes perfect sense that London might see a San Francisco Chronicle article titled "The Call of the Tame" and be inspired to explore the flip side. Heck, "The Call of the Tame" wouldn't have been a completely inappropriate title for "The Call of the Wild." The story has both calls in view. Buck's got to turn his back on the one to heed the other.
davey wrote:Of course it'll pop into anyone's head but a moment's reflection will tell you it doesn't add up. It helps to know a bit about Jack London's books besides the titles too, of course.
It adds up just fine to me as noted above. I'm familiar with the plots of both books.

Unless you know the dates, this is pure mind-reading. Do the writers want me to make a connection between similar sounding titles and related themes, or do they want me to say which Jack London work could more plausibly have borrowed that San Francisco Chronicle title and used it without alteration, irony, subtlety, or slight change of focus? Apparently they wanted the latter. Apparently they should move to New Jersey and get jobs writing Reading Comprehension questions for the SAT. Bah. Meh.
What exactly IS "the call of the tame"? It seems to me it's a phrase used with "alteration, irony [maybe not subtlety], [and] slight change of focus" to a more natural phrase.
I'm not a mind-reader. I did pretty well on my SATs though...

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BoK » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:28 am

A couple of points:

1. I agree with gnash "in" could refer to any country in the Mediterranean region, but I don't think the writers would use it that way. I think their use of "in" rather the "on" was intended to point you to an island country. That really leaves only two possibilities: Cyprus and Malta. But I didn't have a good way to choose between the two, since both are former British possessions. I happened to guess correctly, but I'm not a big fan of this FJ.

2. What was the wording on the 21 clue? Maybe my memory is failing me, but didn't they give the name of the game and ask for the minimum age?

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by John Boy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:41 am

countyguy wrote:
floridagator wrote:Congratulations to Molly the Good, but her win today was underwhelming. She was able to climb back to a near lock after stumbling badly in (single) Jeopardy! I knew she would win after I saw how aggressively the lawyer bet on the wrong answer.
She had to bet aggressively because she was on the trailing end of a crush.

Also, the performance of the contestants was pretty pathetic on the first handful of clues. They were really easy and the contestants were giving pathetic answers, especially in the American Cities category. That, combined with the Panama and FJ! TS, suggests maybe these contestants aren't too keen on geography. The answer said "In the Mediterranean," so that made me rule out everything but Malta and Cyprus. I then decided Cyprus was less likely than Malta due to it being all Greek and Turkish, so I went with Malta. How lucky was I!
Doesn't sound like luck to me. You identified the island nations in the Mediterranean and eliminated the one whose citizens are of two non-English-speaking groups. Excellent process of elimination. Me, I also glossed over "in" the Mediterranean and considered a large number of nations "on" it. Took me longer but I was able to get to Malta, which was way more a fortunate guess for me than it apparently was for you.

Yeah, pretty unimpressive game. Missing "power corrupts" is unimaginable, as I first learned that in high school, where Lord Acton sat two rows over from me.

Good for Molly to have three wins, but it's hard for me to imagine her going much further.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:47 am

seaborgium wrote:http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2450
Stupid Answers, $1,000:
"Since 1970 the General Synod has governed this church of England"
Tom Morris: "What is the Anglican Church?"
It was accepted.
The word "church" was both in the clue and in the response.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:49 am

skullturf wrote:I believe Korean isn't a tone language either, but I confess that I probably wouldn't be able to tell Korean from other languages based on the sound. (Very rarely have I ever heard Korean being spoken at all.)
You must not be a motherfather gentleman.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:53 am

BoK wrote:1. I agree with gnash "in" could refer to any country in the Mediterranean region, but I don't think the writers would use it that way. I think their use of "in" rather the "on" was intended to point you to an island country. That really leaves only two possibilities: Cyprus and Malta. But I didn't have a good way to choose between the two, since both are former British possessions. I happened to guess correctly, but I'm not a big fan of this FJ.
That's all sound thinking, but it is dangerous to exclude answers based on the assumption of precise, unambiguous wording. What, for example, is considered to be in Europe?

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:03 am

econgator wrote:
dhkendall wrote:???? It moved??? (Gibraltar prides itself as being the gateway of the Mediterranean - one of the pillars of Hercules (the other, Jebal Musa, in Morocco) at the Strait of Gibraltar that is part of the Mediterranean.
I always figured it connected the Atlantic and the Med but wasn't part of either.
So where is it then? In another dimension? Of course it is part of the Mediterranean. It isn't an independent nation, though, and therefore isn't a UN member.

Even Portugal is quite commonly labeled a Mediterranean country. Now that's controversial - but it's very common. And it is part of the Mediterranean Basin as usually defined.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by cosmos » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:46 am

BoK wrote:A couple of points: ...
2. What was the wording on the 21 clue? Maybe my memory is failing me, but didn't they give the name of the game and ask for the minimum age?
Clue: You must be at least 21 to play at Luxor Las Vegas' 38 tables for this game.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:55 am

gnash wrote:
seaborgium wrote:http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2450
Stupid Answers, $1,000:
"Since 1970 the General Synod has governed this church of England"
Tom Morris: "What is the Anglican Church?"
It was accepted.
The word "church" was both in the clue and in the response.
So are you saying "blackjack" would be unacceptable for the Stupid Answer being discussed, but "the game of blackjack" would be fine?

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:59 am

davey wrote:What exactly IS "the call of the tame"?
Who the heck knows? That was kind of the problem in my opinion. So the choice becomes to go with the Pavlovian "Call of the Wild" or the answer that would come with a few seconds deliberation, namely "White Fang." I wouldn't say it was an unfair clue, but it certainly wasn't obvious and I'll bet you a whole lot of J! contestants would have said "The Call of the Wild."

As far as the Stupid Answers question, I don't see how blackjack wouldn't be accepted. They're looking for a response that is contained in the clue, but it is never outright stated that this is a hard requirement.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by georgespelvin » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:05 am

Bamaman wrote:Would they have taken blackjack for the 21 Stupid Answer?
I didn't see this game. Was the correct response 21? Did Jack Barry get it? Were the Standards and Practices people chilled to the marrow? :o

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LeFlaneur » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:16 am

Count me among those who thought "Call of the Wild" was a devious DD clue.
I actually preguessed Malta(among a couple of others) for FJ.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:29 am

gnash wrote:
seaborgium wrote:http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2450
Stupid Answers, $1,000:
"Since 1970 the General Synod has governed this church of England"
Tom Morris: "What is the Anglican Church?"
It was accepted.
The word "church" was both in the clue and in the response.
Can you show me precedent for where a Stupid Answers response met the clue's parameters, but didn't have any of the words of the clue in it? If not then you're just either stating your opinion ("they shouldn't accept such responses") or forecasting they wouldn't, but you can't say for sure.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:32 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
davey wrote:What exactly IS "the call of the tame"?
Who the heck knows? That was kind of the problem in my opinion. So the choice becomes to go with the Pavlovian "Call of the Wild" or the answer that would come with a few seconds deliberation, namely "White Fang." I wouldn't say it was an unfair clue, but it certainly wasn't obvious and I'll bet you a whole lot of J! contestants would have said "The Call of the Wild."
Yes, agreed! Deliberation on a DD is smart!
This Is Kirk! wrote:As far as the Stupid Answers question, I don't see how blackjack wouldn't be accepted. They're looking for a response that is contained in the clue, but it is never outright stated that this is a hard requirement.
Right, the category is "Stupid Answers" because they give the correct question away. That doesn't invalidate variations.
Last edited by davey on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by silverscreentest » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:34 am

John Boy wrote:Missing "power corrupts" is unimaginable
It just means their plan is working perfectly.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:34 am

Also, re: the FJ discussion, whether *only* island nations inside the Mediterranean count or other nations (even landlocked ones) *bordering* the Mediterranean count, of course we should keep in mind that arguing over which definition to use is pointless, since the answer is the only correct one regardless of how you look at it, the next closest countries to the Mediterranean Sea that have English as an official (or de jure) language are Ireland, the UK, and Sudan, none of which could be construed as a Mediterranean nation by any stretch of the imagination.
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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:36 am

davey wrote:Right, the category is Stupid Answers" because they give the correct question away. That doesn't invalidate variations.
Exactly. Would Alex say "ooh sorry, blackjack isn't a stupid enough answer!"?

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:43 am

If only TPTB would say that category is too stupid ...

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Re: Monday, June 9, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:46 am

georgespelvin wrote:
Bamaman wrote:Would they have taken blackjack for the 21 Stupid Answer?
I didn't see this game. Was the correct response 21? Did Jack Barry get it? Were the Standards and Practices people chilled to the marrow? :o

The Joker is Wild!
The correct response was 21, but Molly got it and not Jack. I'm on the side that blackjack would have been accepted immediately without pause.

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