About Coryats

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countyguy
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About Coryats

Post by countyguy » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:54 pm

This is a really terrible post, but it really bothers me how misinformed my parents are on what it takes to get on J!, and I really need to get my anxiety out around people who really know what they are talking about when it comes to J!

What is the minimum at home Coryat to be likely...

1. to pass the test twice at one occasion and get on the show?

2. to consistently pass the online test?

3. to have a decent shot at winning (or at least put up big numbers
SpoilerShow
like the contestants did on tonight's show
)?

How do we establish credibility to those numbers? I am asking this because I really want to convince my dad that I would not win any game on J! as long as my Coryat is higher than that of the top-Coryat contestant who got a FJ! that I got, or if I get a TS FJ! and have even a decent performance on the clues before. (more than $6K or so). I have not effectively convinced him, or if I have he is still trying to compliment me. Maybe I should show him the online test to show that it really is hardcore stuff.

Lastly, how many clues do you think the average American adult gets in a typical regular play game?

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econgator
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Re: About Coryats

Post by econgator » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:02 pm

countyguy wrote:1. to pass the test twice at one occasion
Pretty sure that's impossible.
2. to consistently pass the online test?
$20K
3. to have a decent shot at winning (or at least put up big numbers
SpoilerShow
like the contestants did on tonight's show
)?
$35K+
Lastly, how many clues do you think the average American adult gets in a typical regular play game?
Maybe a dozen

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MarkBarrett
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Re: About Coryats

Post by MarkBarrett » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:07 pm

There are no easy answers for your questions. If dad thinks you can win and you don't think you win I would say take the compliment and hope for a chance to prove him right.

As far as numbers they could be great or they could be poor. For each show for each contestant things happen that can change what your personal stats may mean.

Take things in order. If you can't pass the online test then the rest does not matter. If you pass the online test, but do not get an audition then the rest does not matter. If you make it to the audition then that means you passed the online test. That accomplishment alone and nothing else means you could win a game on Jeopardy!

Do the best you can on the in audition written test and the score is what it is. Show the contestant coordinators you would be a good choice to receive "The Call." Once again that has nothing to do with Coryats and such.

If you are a contestant on tape day that shows you have what it takes to possibly win a game or even have a longer run. Many factors come into play for success or failure. Whatever numbers you have had at home mean nothing when you are on the stage. It's what happens for the 61 clues that tell the story.

Check out the stats for this game: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=1101 Sometimes you never know.

For a one person sample I'll use myself. For the 6/11 game
SpoilerShow
I was 19/30 and 15/30 for 34/60. For the DDs I was 1/3. My Coryat was 25,400 compared to the 10,800 + 22,400 + 14,600 the players put up. I was correct with the FJ! clue. My numbers were only average, but it's very possible that I could have won the game no matter which two players were my opponents.

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dhkendall
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Re: About Coryats

Post by dhkendall » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:13 pm

countyguy wrote: What is the minimum at home Coryat to be likely...

2. to consistently pass the online test?
I have to disagree with econgator about this. He says $20K, and that's been my average for many years now, but I only (just barely) passed the test for the first time this year (though I passed tests that I wasn't taking "for real" with much bigger numbers this year and other years).

What I would say is that that Coryat isn't the factor there, it's passing the test. Do you want to know how you will do on the test? Look up some of the old tests (they're all archived here on jboard, I'm sure many people will chime in with helpful links to the actual test questions) and take them. Then see what your score is.
countyguy wrote:3. to have a decent shot at winning (or at least put up big numbers
SpoilerShow
like the contestants did on tonight's show
)?
Best way to tell this comes from Karl Coryat himself where he describes the Coryat method:
Karl Coryat wrote:Record your scores for at least two weeks, and average them; this will give you a handle on where you stand performance-wise. I estimate the typical Jeopardy contestant on the show would average around $24,000 if you adjusted for Daily Doubles and Final Jeopardy and eliminated competition — in other words, if nobody were able to beat him or her to the buzzer. Mathematically, a group of three players with more-or-less random overlap of knowledge — each able to answer $24,000 worth of material on his or her own — accounts for the average accumulated sum of $38,000 to $40,000 you see on the show (on j-archive.com they call this the "combined Coryat"). For a real challenge, measure yourself against this combined score — it's a humbling experience!

If you average under $16,000 (I averaged about $12,000 when I began my training — which, back before they doubled the dollar values, was only $6,000), you can either plunge in and take the contestant test again and again until you pass, or you can get to work to bring up your score. (See below.) If you can consistently score around $24,000, you have a fairly good chance at passing the test, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to bring up that average. If you can consistently score around $28,000, I'd say you have a very good chance of getting on the show, if you have any personality at all. However, if you think you're prone to stage fright or if pressure weakens your ability to think, or you're just really ambitious, my advice is to overbuild your knowledge as much as possible. (You just know most of those contestants on TV play better when they're in their comfy living rooms.) In that case, you might wait until your average is up to $32,000 or even $36,000 before you try out for real. By the way, my at-home average was close to $36,000 ($18,000 in 1996 dollar values) by the time my episodes were taped — but don't let that scare you. I did it, and so can you.
county guy wrote: I have not effectively convinced [my dad], or if I have he is still trying to compliment me. Maybe I should show him the online test to show that it really is hardcore stuff.
Speaking as a dad for all of dad-dom, he's your dad, if he's not complimenting his son and encouraging him, he's not doing his job. Don't worry about what your dad says, and don't try to convince him, he'll always be encouraging you. (qv. several champions on the show (I think at least one who was in the BotD) said that they didn't think they could get on, but a spouse or parent really encouraged them to try, and they did.) Parental and spousal encouragement brought us some great players, you could be one.
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

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the_phil
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Re: About Coryats

Post by the_phil » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:37 pm

econgator wrote:
2. to consistently pass the online test?
$20K
I think it's probably a pinch higher, maybe more in the $23k range. I was averaging around $28K last I took the test (which was admittedly 2013) and routinely scored around 40 when practicing on ones from the past few years.
econgator wrote:
3. to have a decent shot at winning
$35K+
If you have the buzzer timing, I say you can have a outside shot at winning as low as $25K. On my episode I had an awful gameboard (I think something like $22k at-home Coryat) and I still was in the thick of things without finding any daily doubles. A buzzer win here or there (especially in my 0-for-9 streak in DJ) could have swung the game. More realistically, though, I'd try to get to at least a $30K average. That should put you about the average contestant, assuming you don't get a terrible board for yourself.
econgator wrote:
Lastly, how many clues do you think the average American adult gets in a typical regular play game?
Maybe a dozen
Longtime regular watchers might average near a dozen, but most people I know sit down with the goal of knowing 5 (or, for the more advanced, 10).

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Re: About Coryats

Post by immaf » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:07 pm

I generally compare my coryats to the highest possible coryat ($54,000) and the total coryats of the three players in a game. If I get more than half the former ($27,000) and 2/3 of the latter, I figure that with good buzzer skills, I might have won the game. This is not based on any mathematical analysis. It's just my rule of thumb.

I would LOVE to get the call and see how I do!
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MDaunt
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Re: About Coryats

Post by MDaunt » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:33 pm

Can you even pass the test with less than $40K?

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jeff6286
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Re: About Coryats

Post by jeff6286 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:16 am

MDaunt wrote:Can you even pass the test with less than $40K?
quite easily

I have been around the 35-41 range on virtually all of the online tests over the last two years, so assuming 35 is passing, I could have passed nearly every one of them, and that is about 8 or 9 tests. I kept Coryats for every show for about 3 years, and I virtually never got to the $40K range for regular games, generally would fall somewhere in the $24K-$32K range.

Generally the thing keeping me from getting up into the range of a $35-$40K Coryat was struggling on the high value clues. In non-wheelhouse categories, I don't tend to get a lot of $1600 or $2000 clues. My feeling on the online test is that roughly 40 of the 50 questions tend to be no more difficult than 2nd or 3rd row clues, so it is quite feasible to pass the test without having a deep enough knowledge base to pull a lot of those $1600s. It doesn't bode well for my chances if I ever get on the show, as I would have to win a lot of buzzer races to have a decent chance to win, without knowing many of those high value clues. However, given the level of a lot of the contestants that we've seen over the past several months, I would hardly be in the minority.

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MDaunt
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Re: About Coryats

Post by MDaunt » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:28 am

That's odd. The first time I took the test (in 1992) we were told that all of the questions came from the bottom two rows and that the passing grade was 80%. Only three of 50 in my group passed (and only one got on the show (not me that time)).

I'm pretty sure neither of those things are still true.

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skullturf
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Re: About Coryats

Post by skullturf » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:29 am

jeff6286 wrote:
MDaunt wrote:Can you even pass the test with less than $40K?
quite easily

I have been around the 35-41 range on virtually all of the online tests over the last two years, so assuming 35 is passing, I could have passed nearly every one of them, and that is about 8 or 9 tests. I kept Coryats for every show for about 3 years, and I virtually never got to the $40K range for regular games, generally would fall somewhere in the $24K-$32K range.
I've been tracking my Coryats for a while and I can second this. I've been steadily improving over the years, and a game with a 40K Coryat used to be extremely rare for me. Happily, I now flirt with the 40K mark a little more frequently, but back when I was averaging around 32K, I'm pretty sure I was passing the online tests more often than not.

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Re: About Coryats

Post by slam » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:32 am

MDaunt wrote:Can you even pass the test with less than $40K?
I hope you're joking, Mike. Averaging $40K put you in the running for a decent run. If you're not joking, you're out of touch with more typical contestants who get on the show.

Note that a $40K Coryat means that you could answer the entire DJ! board except the bottom row plus the entire J! board except two bottom row clues. That sounds like enough to easily pass the test to me.

I've been tracking my Coryats for a number of years and am averaging just under $40K. I've never been in any danger of failing the online test. I consistently get from 42 to 48 right on it. If the assumed 35 passing score is correct, it's clear that you don't need a $40K Coryat to pass the test.

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MDaunt
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Re: About Coryats

Post by MDaunt » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:28 pm

Maximum coryat is $54,000 - a perfect score. To get 75% of the questions at random should give you roughly $40,500. 70% would be $37,800.

Even allowing for some deductions for errors, I would say you should be well into the 30s to pass the test. Perhaps you're right and I'm out of touch. Maybe it's that I don't really consider that there are no deductions for wrong answers on the test, while people are guessing at nearly every clue to calculate their coryat (while I would assume they were practicing staying clam).

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jeff6286
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Re: About Coryats

Post by jeff6286 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:45 pm

MDaunt wrote:Maximum coryat is $54,000 - a perfect score. To get 75% of the questions at random should give you roughly $40,500. 70% would be $37,800.

Even allowing for some deductions for errors, I would say you should be well into the 30s to pass the test. Perhaps you're right and I'm out of touch. Maybe it's that I don't really consider that there are no deductions for wrong answers on the test, while people are guessing at nearly every clue to calculate their coryat (while I would assume they were practicing staying clam).
That is certainly a factor, that you are allowed to guess at every clue on the test, and you might very well get several right that you would never ring in on due to lack of confidence. Even so, I think it is very possible that you are out of touch. Have you taken or looked at any of the online tests in recent years? A lot of the clues are really easy. If at one time all of the clues were taken from the bottom two rows, I am quite certain that this is no longer the case. If you'd like to check some of them out, this search will give links to the 3 regular tests for each of the last 3 years: search.php?keywords=%5Bcentral%7Ceaster ... mit=Search

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MDaunt
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Re: About Coryats

Post by MDaunt » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:26 pm

Interesting. 47/50 on the first one, which seemed much easier than either of the two actual tests I took. I suppose I really am out of touch.

By the way...get off my lawn.

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Re: About Coryats

Post by Sherm » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:33 pm

MDaunt wrote:Maximum coryat is $54,000 - a perfect score. To get 75% of the questions at random should give you roughly $40,500. 70% would be $37,800.

Even allowing for some deductions for errors, I would say you should be well into the 30s to pass the test. Perhaps you're right and I'm out of touch. Maybe it's that I don't really consider that there are no deductions for wrong answers on the test, while people are guessing at nearly every clue to calculate their coryat (while I would assume they were practicing staying clam).
You're assumption is that someone will be getting the same number of $200 clues correct as they would $1000, or $400 versus $2000 and that just isn't accurate. Someone getting 45 clues right is likely not going to score even close to $40,000. I've only ever broke $40,000 on a coryat one time and I had to get 51 correct responses to do it, which is 85% of the board.

IMO, 40 correct responses will gave a coryat in the 30K area (high 20's to low 30's), depending on misses and how well you do on the big money clues. I also believe someone that is capable of answering 40 correct repsonses on the typical board will consistantly score over 35 on the test with little problem.

I think Karl Coryat probably had it very close to right. A coryat of 24,000 probably is the equivalent of 35 on the test. If your score is consistantly around 20,000 you probably aren't going to score 35 on the test, if your coryat is consistantly 28,000 you are probably going to pass with 2 or 3 questions to spare.

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Re: About Coryats

Post by StevenH » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:42 pm

Sherm wrote:I think Karl Coryat probably had it very close to right. A coryat of 24,000 probably is the equivalent of 35 on the test. If your score is consistantly around 20,000 you probably aren't going to score 35 on the test, if your coryat is consistantly 28,000 you are probably going to pass with 2 or 3 questions to spare.
This describes my experience with taking the tests and tracking my coryats very accurately.

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Re: About Coryats

Post by Woof » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:47 pm

StevenH wrote:
Sherm wrote:I think Karl Coryat probably had it very close to right. A coryat of 24,000 probably is the equivalent of 35 on the test. If your score is consistantly around 20,000 you probably aren't going to score 35 on the test, if your coryat is consistantly 28,000 you are probably going to pass with 2 or 3 questions to spare.
This describes my experience with taking the tests and tracking my coryats very accurately.
Mine too. Though I don't routinely keep track of my Coryats, those I do compute are usually in the $35-40K range with occasional excursions above $40K. In recent years, my scores on the online tests have been in the 40-44 range.

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Re: About Coryats

Post by TheyCallMeMrKid » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:13 am

slam wrote:I've been tracking my Coryats for a number of years and am averaging just under $40K. I've never been in any danger of failing the online test. I consistently get from 42 to 48 right on it. If the assumed 35 passing score is correct, it's clear that you don't need a $40K Coryat to pass the test.
May I ask, how do you know your online test score? Do you just recall from memory after you've taken the test? Or videotape yourself while you are taking the test? Or does Jeopardy tell you your score if you pass?
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Re: About Coryats

Post by silverscreentest » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:24 am

This is a link for a Chrome extension that calculates your Coryat for games in the J-archive.

http://chrome.google.com/webstore/detai ... ppbm?hl=en
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Re: About Coryats

Post by Volante » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:34 am

TheyCallMeMrKid wrote:
slam wrote:I've been tracking my Coryats for a number of years and am averaging just under $40K. I've never been in any danger of failing the online test. I consistently get from 42 to 48 right on it. If the assumed 35 passing score is correct, it's clear that you don't need a $40K Coryat to pass the test.
May I ask, how do you know your online test score? Do you just recall from memory after you've taken the test? Or videotape yourself while you are taking the test? Or does Jeopardy tell you your score if you pass?
I just recall from memory after I've taken the test, some do record it but probably only a double digit number tops.

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