2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

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Vanya
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Vanya »

goforthetie wrote:This is silly. Triple play is factually incorrect and should be negged. It's an obscure play, yes, but trivia questions ask you to make not-100%-certain deductions from obscure facts all the time, and you have to weigh your confidence levels appropriately. Given that there are only about 5 triple plays for all of MLB in an entire season*, the odds that this play, happening two days before the clue went up, would refer to a TP, not a DP, were quite long. You chose to buck those odds, or were ignorant of them, and you lost.

*: http://tripleplays.sabr.org/tp_year.htm
Odds, schmods. Double plays happen all the time in baseball, so adding the date is huge neg-bait for those who don't follow baseball religiously (another religion question! Phooey).

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OrangeSAM
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by OrangeSAM »

DadofTwins wrote:
OrangeSAM wrote:
lieph82 wrote:Props to your daughter if she wrote the blood cell clue, it was just out of my reach but I love it all the same. Couldn't get "wine" out of my head for red/white.
That was a fun category. I got past "wine" but got caught on "mobile phone", thus, "blue blood mobile phone".
Well, blood mobiles can be red or white (often both).

And I do want to give you points . . .
Thank you for your consideration, DoT.
OCSam

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gobobbygo »

I remembered the triple play from April (having now looked it up) as if it were just a couple days ago. Also forgot that he's a Padre now.
Will happily accept points for it, did think the specific reference was pointing to the more unusual event.
Will also happily accept a neg.
Oy.

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gnash
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

DadofTwins wrote:Upon further review:

I'm inclined to accept "triple play" in addition to the intended "double play" for two reasons. One, in my attempt to pin the response to "double play" by citing a specific play, I assumed that since double plays are phenomenally more common than triple plays that would lead to less confusion. Instead, it led to more.

Furthermore, when the current San Diego third baseman was a Yankee earlier this year, he was actually on the front end of a 5-4-3 triple play in a game against Tampa Bay.

So even though "double play" is precisely pinned, I think fairness requires me to accept "triple play" as well.

ETA: The embellishment on this clue was mine, as part of the editing process. I sometimes do that with guest-written clues. In this case, Paucle provided a workable response and a clue that was short enough that I could add in some TOM to make the clue valuation order work.
How does that make any sense? If the actual play in the clue was a double play, then triple play can't be right, period.

Accepting clearly wrong answers just because they sound plausible and the facts that pin the right answer are obscure does two bad things. First, it sets a dangerous precedent. What is a plausible answer is subjective, and people will argue on those grounds, citing this as a precedent. Second, it is unfair to players like me, who know nothing about baseball and clammed, but would have ventured a guess had they known that two answers would be accepted. I figured (with the help of the category) that it was probably (more than 50%) double play or triple play. But I don't even know the difference between the two, and did not think I was more than 33% sure in either by itself. So I didn't guess. But I clearly would have guessed on a >50% chance. Accepting both answers now moves the goal posts. If you think the question was bad (not sure why), give us a RQ, but don't accept a wrong answer.

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This Is Kirk!
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by This Is Kirk! »

You can score it how you wish, but I think it's silly to grade a clearly incorrect answer as correct. The answer is double play. Only double play is correct. The event described was not a triple play. End of story.

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OrangeSAM
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by OrangeSAM »

gnash wrote:
DadofTwins wrote:Upon further review:

I'm inclined to accept "triple play" in addition to the intended "double play" for two reasons. One, in my attempt to pin the response to "double play" by citing a specific play, I assumed that since double plays are phenomenally more common than triple plays that would lead to less confusion. Instead, it led to more.

Furthermore, when the current San Diego third baseman was a Yankee earlier this year, he was actually on the front end of a 5-4-3 triple play in a game against Tampa Bay.

So even though "double play" is precisely pinned, I think fairness requires me to accept "triple play" as well.

ETA: The embellishment on this clue was mine, as part of the editing process. I sometimes do that with guest-written clues. In this case, Paucle provided a workable response and a clue that was short enough that I could add in some TOM to make the clue valuation order work.
How does that make any sense? If the actual play in the clue was a double play, then triple play can't be right, period.

Accepting clearly wrong answers just because they sound plausible and the facts that pin the right answer are obscure does two bad things. First, it sets a dangerous precedent. What is a plausible answer is subjective, and people will argue on those grounds, citing this as a precedent. Second, it is unfair to players like me, who know nothing about baseball and clammed, but would have ventured a guess had they known that two answers would be accepted. I figured (with the help of the category) that it was probably (more than 50%) double play or triple play. But I don't even know the difference between the two, and did not think I was more than 33% sure in either by itself. So I didn't guess. But I clearly would have guessed on a >50% chance. Accepting both answers now moves the goal posts. If you think the question was bad (not sure why), give us a RQ, but don't accept a wrong answer.
Will you be playing the rest of the SHC under protest?
OCSam

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by rjaguar3 »

The "double play" clue is currently being scored so that double play and triple play are acceptable. Here is the distribution of responses (as of the most recent script run):
double play: 40
triple play: 14
CLAM: 6
all star game: 1
overtime game: 1
play time: 1

As a personal opinion, I agree with gnash and This Is Kirk! that "triple play" should not be accepted. Could the clue have been written better, to make it clearer that "double play" and not "triple play" was intended? Sure. But the clue is accurate and precise, and, as such, the players who jumped to a factually wrong answer on the basis of their own assumptions about the clue should not be credited with a correct answer.

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Volante
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Volante »

rjaguar3 wrote:But the clue is accurate and precise, and, as such, the players who jumped to a factually wrong answer on the basis of their own assumptions about the clue should not be credited with a correct answer.
I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who knew the clue based on the accuracy and precision given, rather they jumped to an assumption of their own about the clue and happened to be right.

What if the clue read:
Scored 5-4-3, one of these started on April 17 when Tampa Bay Ray Sean Rodriguez hit a ground ball to New York Yankee Yangervis Solarte.
Spoiler
Would you KNOW that's a triple play like you KNOW the one in the clue was a double play? I bet the clue would have the same 40-14 distribution. It's just as accurate and precise.
RQ would probably be the best.
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This Is Kirk!
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by This Is Kirk! »

Volante wrote: What if the clue read:
Scored 5-4-3, one of these started on April 17 when Tampa Bay Ray Sean Rodriguez hit a ground ball to New York Yankee Yangervis Solarte.
Spoiler
Would you KNOW that's a triple play like you KNOW the one in the clue was a double play? I bet the clue would have the same 40-14 distribution. It's just as accurate and precise.
Spoiler
I don't see why it matters. There's only one correct answer to both questions. Answering "double play" to that question would be wrong and should be scored as being wrong. Some questions are neg bait. That's just how it works.

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by lieph82 »

dhkendall wrote:
Woof wrote:every team has a catcher
I dunno, I've seen Oakland play ... :mrgreen:
dhk, I'm sighing that this joke would have worked had you named just about any other team...

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Volante
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by Volante »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Volante wrote: What if the clue read:
Scored 5-4-3, one of these started on April 17 when Tampa Bay Ray Sean Rodriguez hit a ground ball to New York Yankee Yangervis Solarte.
Spoiler
Would you KNOW that's a triple play like you KNOW the one in the clue was a double play? I bet the clue would have the same 40-14 distribution. It's just as accurate and precise.
Spoiler
I don't see why it matters. There's only one correct answer to both questions. Answering "double play" to that question would be wrong and should be scored as being wrong. Some questions are neg bait. That's just how it works.
Specificity should add depth to the clue, not simply narrow it down.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by goforthetie »

It's a wordplay category. The point of the clue was not to give an example of a remarkable play, it was to give an example of a play whose name satisfied the wordplay criterion.
I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who knew the clue based on the accuracy and precision given, rather they jumped to an assumption of their own about the clue and happened to be right.
Not an assumption. It was simply knowing that a double play was vastly more likely to be correct for any play that can be described as 5-4-3, in the ABSENCE of any assumptions about what the question-writer might be doing with the question beyond the explicitly stated intention of finding a term that fits the category.

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by happybooker »

Wrong again. I would have bet that my (lost) coin flip on Robespierre and Napoleon would have engendered the discussion, not the (it seemed to me) transparent answer of double play

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

Volante wrote:I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who knew the clue based on the accuracy and precision given, rather they jumped to an assumption of their own about the clue and happened to be right.
Adding (in full agreement) to Kirk's response - why would this matter? Imagine applying your logic on Jeopardy! - there would easily be several questions on every show where clearly wrong answers would have to be accepted. This is not a test of deductive abilities; this is a trivia game. A wrong answer arrived at by defensible reasoning is still a wrong answer. A right answer pulled out of one's butt is still a right answer.

Nobody has given (or even tried to give) an argument that the clue, as worded, has no correct answer (--> valid grounds for RQ) or that "triple play" fits the clue (--> reason to accept alternative answer). And, with an almost 2/3 get rate, it doesn't look like a field stumper, either.

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gnash
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by gnash »

happybooker wrote:Wrong again. I would have bet that my (lost) coin flip on Robespierre and Napoleon would have engendered the discussion, not the (it seemed to me) transparent answer of double play
It helps to know the origin of the phrase that somehow seems à propos: "History repeats itself; the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by tjconn728 »

I put triple play for the reason that many have stated, if a specific play was being asked about, it had to have been special, and therefore a triple play. If it was double play, it would have been worded something like "on August 26, there were 14 of these across all MLB games, with 4-6-3 being the most common."

It didn't help that although I suppose "double time" is far more common, "triple time" and ("quadruple time", etc.) must be a thing too. All that being said, the arguments for triple play (my answer) being wrong have convinced me. No offense to DoT who does a great job with SHC overall, but if it wasn't intended to be negbait, this was a poorly worded question. However, the facts point to only one answer actually being correct, even if it was practically impossible to know which of two possible answers it may be.

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Threa

Post by seaborgium »

I saw a specific play being mentioned, and thought, "Oh, he's just pinning it."

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billy pilgrim
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by billy pilgrim »

I said triple play. I agree it should not be ruled correct.
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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by countyguy »

Ugh, I knew the six-pointer from day 6 but typoed and said "halftime".

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Re: 2014 Summer Hiatus Challenge -- Round 4 Instant Replay Thread

Post by OrangeSAM »

I was going to comment that in a game where a player can score up to 2700 points that the notion that a six-point swing for a few players could affect the outcome of the game would seem unlikely. But, looking at simply round 4, it might.
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