The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Wheatley » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:17 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:29 pm
1812 Overture seemed way too easy, so I figured it had to be something else.
Consider this - at least once a month, there's an FJ question that gets called "Teen Tournament-level." Given that, there's no reason to reject an obvious-seeming answer when you don't have a better one.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:45 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 am
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 pm
600 is close to 592. Do the least amount of work to make things easier.
All this rounding just sounds like you're adding 20 times as much work.

1400-592

Okay, you're adding 8 which gives you...

592
+ 8

2 and 8 is 10, carry the one, which is... oh crap.
Speaking of adding 20 times as much work...

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by dhkendall » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:05 am

Wheatley wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:17 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:29 pm
1812 Overture seemed way too easy, so I figured it had to be something else.
Consider this - at least once a month, there's an FJ question that gets called "Teen Tournament-level." Given that, there's no reason to reject an obvious-seeming answer when you don't have a better one.
Second.

If “1812 Overture” is too easy, so you look for something else during the 30 seconds, and come up with “Pop Goes the Weasel” as a better answer, by all means use it. If you don’t have anything better, use your original answer!!! #pearlsbeforeswine
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:21 am

dhkendall wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:05 am
Wheatley wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:17 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:29 pm
1812 Overture seemed way too easy, so I figured it had to be something else.
Consider this - at least once a month, there's an FJ question that gets called "Teen Tournament-level." Given that, there's no reason to reject an obvious-seeming answer when you don't have a better one.
Second.

If “1812 Overture” is too easy, so you look for something else during the 30 seconds, and come up with “Pop Goes the Weasel” as a better answer, by all means use it. If you don’t have anything better, use your original answer!!! #pearlsbeforeswine
But I'm not expecting a "Teen Tournament" easy FJ! in a ToC.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:26 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:21 am
But I'm not expecting a "Teen Tournament" easy FJ! in a ToC.
Gotta agree with you on this.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:36 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:45 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 am
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 pm
600 is close to 592. Do the least amount of work to make things easier.
All this rounding just sounds like you're adding 20 times as much work.

1400-592

Okay, you're adding 8 which gives you...

592
+ 8

2 and 8 is 10, carry the one, which is... oh crap.
Speaking of adding 20 times as much work...
Well, I don't see a faster way to do 592 + 8, now do you?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:45 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:36 am
seaborgium wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:45 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 am
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 pm
600 is close to 592. Do the least amount of work to make things easier.
All this rounding just sounds like you're adding 20 times as much work.

1400-592

Okay, you're adding 8 which gives you...

592
+ 8

2 and 8 is 10, carry the one, which is... oh crap.
Speaking of adding 20 times as much work...
Well, I don't see a faster way to do 592 + 8, now do you?
592 + 8 = 600. Done.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:07 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:45 am
592 + 8 = 600. Done.
So the only way to do this one is to do it. Really helpful.

Now I'm trying to get to 1400, not 600.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:20 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:07 am
seaborgium wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:45 am
592 + 8 = 600. Done.
So the only way to do this one is to do it. Really helpful.

Now I'm trying to get to 1400, not 600.
If you can understand not performing carrying operations when trying to add 599 + 1, you should have some idea of how I'm managing the same with 592 + 8.

Of course you're not trying to go to 600 because we're already there. All that's left is to go 800, and there we are at 1400, having gone 808.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 am

Again, just randomly smashing numbers together until we get to 1400. At what point is this going to make sense?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:28 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 am
Again, just randomly smashing numbers together until we get to 1400. At what point is this going to make sense?
And yet I consistently get to the correct answer. It doesn't seem like randomness would work out that well.

Is it random that 600 is the closest round number to 592? Is it random that 6 + 8 = 14?

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:44 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:28 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 am
Again, just randomly smashing numbers together until we get to 1400. At what point is this going to make sense?
And yet I consistently get to the correct answer. It doesn't seem like randomness would work out that well.

Is it random that 600 is the closest round number to 592? Is it random that 6 + 8 = 14?
No, it's why we're picking 600 specifically that seems random.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:45 am

1400-592

Okay, you're adding 8 which gives you...

592
+ 8
Let's go back to the money analogy and move the decimal point. And so it will make more sense, let's tweak it to $10.00 tendered for a $5.92 purchase. What's the change?

You need 3 pennies to get to 5.95, then a nickel to 6.00. From there it's 4 $1 bills to $10. So 3 pennies plus a nickel plus 4 ones. That's $4.08. More correctly, you don't care how much it is, you just know the change is right. You added up to get to the amount tendered. The buyer gave up a $10 bill and got a burger and fries costing 5.92, plus they got 3 pennies, a nickel, and 4 dollars.

The idea is to do addition, which most people find easier than subtraction.

Starting from the smaller number, what do you have to add to get to the next 10? Then from that, what you do add to get to the next hundred? Then the next 1000, the next 10,000 and so on.

Let's try a couple more, from earlier in the thread:

1523 - 649

Adding 1 to 649 gets you to 650 (the next highest ten). Then it's another 50 to 700 (the next highest hundred). 50 +1 is 51.

From 700 to 1500 is 800. Now our running total is 851. But we've only counted up to 1500. We need another 23 to get to the desired total. Add 23 to 851 and we've got our answer: 874.
TPH - please skip this, it'll just confuse you moreShow
An alternate solution because the math is easy is to subtract 23 from both numbers. Why 23? That's the low digits in 1523. 649-23 is 626. Now solve 1500-626 as 74 (to 700) plus 800.

Of course, you could extend this one more digit and subtract 523 from 649. (No borrowing needed, so it's not too tough.) That gives 1000-126=874. 74 to get to 200 and another 800 to 1000.
One more:
121-83

7 gets us to 90, 10 more to 100 (so 17), then another 21. 17+21 is 38.

Alternatively, carry a pocket calculator.

--Peter
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:10 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 am
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 pm
600 is close to 592. Do the least amount of work to make things easier.
All this rounding just sounds like you're adding 20 times as much work.

1400-592

Okay, you're adding 8 which gives you...

592
+ 8

2 and 8 is 10, carry the one, which is... oh crap.
Well, if you can't do 592+8, there's not much help for you.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:56 am

Peter the accountant wrote:
You need 3 pennies to get to 5.95, then a nickel to 6.00. From there it's 4 $1 bills to $10. So 3 pennies plus a nickel plus 4 ones. That's $4.08. More correctly, you don't care how much it is, you just know the change is right. You added up to get to the amount tendered. The buyer gave up a $10 bill and got a burger and fries costing 5.92, plus they got 3 pennies, a nickel, and 4 dollars.

The idea is to do addition, which most people find easier than subtraction.

Starting from the smaller number, what do you have to add to get to the next 10? Then from that, what you do add to get to the next hundred? Then the next 1000, the next 10,000 and so on.

Let's try a couple more, from earlier in the thread:

1523 - 649

Adding 1 to 649 gets you to 650 (the next highest ten). Then it's another 50 to 700 (the next highest hundred). 50 +1 is 51.

From 700 to 1500 is 800. Now our running total is 851. But we've only counted up to 1500. We need another 23 to get to the desired total. Add 23 to 851 and we've got our answer: 874.
TPH - please skip this, it'll just confuse you moreShow
An alternate solution because the math is easy is to subtract 23 from both numbers. Why 23? That's the low digits in 1523. 649-23 is 626. Now solve 1500-626 as 74 (to 700) plus 800.

Of course, you could extend this one more digit and subtract 523 from 649. (No borrowing needed, so it's not too tough.) That gives 1000-126=874. 74 to get to 200 and another 800 to 1000.
One more:
121-83

7 gets us to 90, 10 more to 100 (so 17), then another 21. 17+21 is 38.

Alternatively, carry a pocket calculator.

--Peter
But how do I know to the numbers? How do I know to go to 5.95 and then 6? It's so random
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:01 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:56 am
Peter the accountant wrote:
You need 3 pennies to get to 5.95, then a nickel to 6.00. From there it's 4 $1 bills to $10. So 3 pennies plus a nickel plus 4 ones. That's $4.08. More correctly, you don't care how much it is, you just know the change is right. You added up to get to the amount tendered. The buyer gave up a $10 bill and got a burger and fries costing 5.92, plus they got 3 pennies, a nickel, and 4 dollars.

The idea is to do addition, which most people find easier than subtraction.

Starting from the smaller number, what do you have to add to get to the next 10? Then from that, what you do add to get to the next hundred? Then the next 1000, the next 10,000 and so on.

Let's try a couple more, from earlier in the thread:

1523 - 649

Adding 1 to 649 gets you to 650 (the next highest ten). Then it's another 50 to 700 (the next highest hundred). 50 +1 is 51.

From 700 to 1500 is 800. Now our running total is 851. But we've only counted up to 1500. We need another 23 to get to the desired total. Add 23 to 851 and we've got our answer: 874.
TPH - please skip this, it'll just confuse you moreShow
An alternate solution because the math is easy is to subtract 23 from both numbers. Why 23? That's the low digits in 1523. 649-23 is 626. Now solve 1500-626 as 74 (to 700) plus 800.

Of course, you could extend this one more digit and subtract 523 from 649. (No borrowing needed, so it's not too tough.) That gives 1000-126=874. 74 to get to 200 and another 800 to 1000.
One more:
121-83

7 gets us to 90, 10 more to 100 (so 17), then another 21. 17+21 is 38.

Alternatively, carry a pocket calculator.

--Peter
But how do I know to the numbers? How do I know to go to 5.95 and then 6? It's so random
I'll once again bring up a series of questions you didn't answer yet (and change it slightly).

Which of these problems are easier?

14.00 - 6.00

15.23 - 6.49

15.00 - 7.00

1.00 - 0.80

1.21 - 0.83
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:27 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:56 am
But how do I know to the numbers? How do I know to go to 5.95 and then 6? It's so random
It's not random. You're going up to the next higher "useful" number.

With pure math, you'd go to the next multiple of 10. Then from there, you go up to the next multiple of 100, then the next 1000 and so on. You do that so you only have to deal with one digit at a time. And you never have to worry about "carrying the 1" or "borrowing 1".

With money, it's a little more complicated. (Although some people "get" money easier because they deal with it often.) First, you go up to the next increment of 5 cents. That's all the pennies you need. You use nickels, dimes or quarters from there to get to an even dollar. Then it's paper money.


Let's try something. Try to forget everything we've been talking about. (OK - I'm using "we" generously. I just started here - this is my second post. Whatever. ;) )

What is 10 - 3?
I'm just trying to learn how to use the spoiler function here.Show
7
How about 20-3?
Next, 30-3
40-3
50-3
Yes, I'm still playing with spoilersShow
17, 27, 37, 47
See a pattern here?

Now, let's turn it around and add.

What do I have to add to 3 to get to these numbers? Don't use pencil and paper here. Solve it in your head.
10
20
30
40
50
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:47 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:26 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:21 am
But I'm not expecting a "Teen Tournament" easy FJ! in a ToC.
Gotta agree with you on this.
Neither am I, but you have to go with the response that fits whatever FJ clue they give you.

And "''Teen Tournament' easy" is silly hyperbole.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by cinemaniax7 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:19 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:29 pm
"Celestine Prophecy" also seemed insanely obscure for the top box.
Granted, The Celestine Prophecy was published back in 1993. However, it sold more than 20 million copies and was on the best-seller list for over three years.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:28 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:27 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:56 am
But how do I know to the numbers? How do I know to go to 5.95 and then 6? It's so random
It's not random. You're going up to the next higher "useful" number.

With pure math, you'd go to the next multiple of 10. Then from there, you go up to the next multiple of 100, then the next 1000 and so on. You do that so you only have to deal with one digit at a time. And you never have to worry about "carrying the 1" or "borrowing 1".
But if you don't know math, you don't KNOW if counting up to some random number first is "useful".

Also, breaking it down still confuses me because adding the hundreds, tens, and ones still involves carrying.
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