The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by heppm01 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:39 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:31 pm
heppm01 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:38 pm
How many times over that impressive list did you bother to guess something - anything - just to have a response?

How many times over that impressive list did you take the time - as much as necessary - to think of how you (not any of the rest of us) would get from the clue to the correct response? Do you just give up after a minute or two or do you roll it over in your brain all day, coming at it from different angles? Even if you don't find a path to the correct answer, do you at least get any closer to a reasonable guess?
No, because so many of them are so obscure that no amount of guessing will ever get me to the right response. I can't ever guess Apologia if I've absolutely never heard of it, for instance. No amount of guessing is ever going to get me to colors on NYC's flag if I didn't even know NYC had a flag.
I think you may have missed my point, which I italicized in the above quote. I'm not talking about learning facts, but rather learning how to get from point A to somewhere around point B (we''ll worry about the exact point B later).

Monday's FJ, category CABLE TV HISTORY
"“You need us…for everything you do” was a slogan used by this channel, one of the first to customize content by location"

If you recall what station used that slogan, boom, you are done and correct. If not, what process could you use to come up with a reasonable guess? This is not a rhetorical question, this is your mental exercise for the day. Come up with three possible, justifiable responses for the clue. Let's say The Weather Channel, CNN and Home Shopping Network are off-limits since people have already explained how they came to their answers.

And to head you off before you say "I don't know how to do that", for example:
"Hmmm, there are a lot of trees in Maine and the Pacific Northwest, maybe National Geographic shows more forestry documentaries in those markets"
"Gee, California and Texas might have a higher population of young Latino viewers than other parts of the country, I wonder if Nickelodeon televises more Spanish-language cartoons in those states".

Sure, both are wrong, and I deliberately chose superficial examples, but they are defensible. This is the sort of thinking that I think it would help for you to work on. So take the day and come up with your three possible responses and how you got to them.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:07 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:31 pm
No amount of guessing is ever going to get me to colors on NYC's flag if I didn't even know NYC had a flag.
You don't really need to know that NYC has a flag. They told you that in the clue. Now if you happen to know about the NYC flag, great. You can solve the clue directly. But I'd wager less than a quarter of the people here who solved the clue knew anything at all about the NYC flag. What they did was keep their brains engaged and read the rest of the clue. And that told you the colors were the same as two professional NYC sports teams and the old Dutch flag. That gives you three additional ways to solve the clue. So you can solve the puzzle 4 different ways:

1. Know the NYC flag (probably the least popular solution method)
2. Know the Mets colors
3. Know the Knicks colors
4. Know the old Dutch flag colors

And you can even combine these ways. You might know that the Mets are predominately white and blue. But what is the third color? Maybe you know the Knicks road uniforms are mainly orange. Or maybe you know the history of the Netherlands and that they separated from Spain under the leadership of the Prince of Orange.

There's so many ways to solve this clue that it's almost embarrassing.

Then again, the majority of clues on J! have more than one way to solve them. So you don't always need to know the direct solution.

The take away here is that you really need to stop saying you didn't know the single, direct solution to a clue. A lot of the people who solve it don't know that direct solution. But they figure it out with the other hints given in the clue. Heck, that's the basic process for solving almost any puzzle.
I knew he cut off his ear, but I thought it was just a one-off thing.
It took me a couple of readings, but I finally see what you did there. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:07 pm
That gives you three additional ways to solve the clue. So you can solve the puzzle 4 different ways:

1. Know the NYC flag (probably the least popular solution method)
2. Know the Mets colors
3. Know the Knicks colors
4. Know the old Dutch flag colors
But if I don't know 2, 3, or 4 (which I don't), then I have literally nothing to go on.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:10 pm

Have you ever heard of Plato's Republic? While it wasn't right and certainly didn't really make sense in relation to the wording of the clue, it was better than nothing.
Complete the List champion, Episode 12.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:54 pm
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:07 pm
That gives you three additional ways to solve the clue. So you can solve the puzzle 4 different ways:

1. Know the NYC flag (probably the least popular solution method)
2. Know the Mets colors
3. Know the Knicks colors
4. Know the old Dutch flag colors
But if I don't know 2, 3, or 4 (which I don't), then I have literally nothing to go on.
Sometimes that's the way the ball bounces.

The point is there are multiple ways to answer the question. If you don't know any of them, you're not going to get to an answer. Still, though, you write down three random colors.

Today's (Feb 8) FJ answers by the players are an example of that. I suspect John flat out knew the answer. He wrote it down very quickly. The other two may have know the CDC is in Georgia, or more specifically Atlanta. They then needed to pick a university (preferably one with a medical school) that was in GA. They picked wrong, but at least they could winnow down the options.

Back in vexillology, how'd you do in today's flag category? Did you know any of the flags? Or did you figure out any of them from the other parts of the clue? Personally, I didn't know any, but managed to get 4 of 5 anyway, just from the other tidbits in the clues.
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
The point is there are multiple ways to answer the question. If you don't know any of them, you're not going to get to an answer. Still, though, you write down three random colors.
And then get it wrong regardless.
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
Today's (Feb 8) FJ answers by the players are an example of that. I suspect John flat out knew the answer. He wrote it down very quickly. The other two may have know the CDC is in Georgia, or more specifically Atlanta. They then needed to pick a university (preferably one with a medical school) that was in GA. They picked wrong, but at least they could winnow down the options.
Whereas I had no idea where to even go. I know there is SOMEthing called Emory, but had no idea that it was a college. I didn't know that it was in ATL. I didn't know the CDC was in ATL either. I literally had nothing pointing me anywhere.
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
Back in vexillology, how'd you do in today's flag category? Did you know any of the flags? Or did you figure out any of them from the other parts of the clue? Personally, I didn't know any, but managed to get 4 of 5 anyway, just from the other tidbits in the clues.
I got $200 and $800. Negged with "cow" at $400; had no idea whatsoever on $600; and I honestly have no recollection of the $1,000 clue being revealed.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
The point is there are multiple ways to answer the question. If you don't know any of them, you're not going to get to an answer. Still, though, you write down three random colors.
And then get it wrong regardless.
Not if they're orange, blue, and white (in any order, even).

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:37 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
The point is there are multiple ways to answer the question. If you don't know any of them, you're not going to get to an answer. Still, though, you write down three random colors.
And then get it wrong regardless.
Not if they're orange, blue, and white (in any order, even).
Which is about a three in ten zillion chance. Do you know how many colors are on the spectrum? A blind guess pulling all three of those would literally never happen.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:45 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:37 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
The point is there are multiple ways to answer the question. If you don't know any of them, you're not going to get to an answer. Still, though, you write down three random colors.
And then get it wrong regardless.
Not if they're orange, blue, and white (in any order, even).
Which is about a three in ten zillion chance. Do you know how many colors are on the spectrum? A blind guess pulling all three of those would literally never happen.
How many colors besides red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, brown, black, and white are on flags and called something other than one of the preceding names? You couldn't reasonably expect periwinkle, chartreuse, and cinnabar, for example, to be in the field of possibilities.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:47 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm
And then get it wrong regardless.
99 times out of 100, yes. But that 1 time out of 100 you get lucky. With no answer at all, you don't even get that.
Whereas I had no idea where to even go.
Sure you did. You knew they wanted a university, right?
I know there is SOMEthing called Emory, but had no idea that it was a college. I didn't know that it was in ATL.
Irrelevant. You didn't have that as a part of the clue. (For the record, I am pretty close to you here. I knew Emory University existed. And that's about it.) That's the answer.
I didn't know the CDC was in ATL either.


Could you make a guess as to where the CDC might be? Obviously, that's not likely to get you to the right answer. But even that isn't important right now. We're talking process. Follow the process and you'll have some chance of getting to the right answer.

So make a guess as to where the CDC is. Is the CDC a US institution? If so, any guess in the US is reasonable. And even picking a state is good enough to eliminate a whole bunch of options. Worst case, you write University of (insert state here). Odds are that it at least exists. Which is a better guess than University of Hogwarts. ;)
I literally had nothing pointing me anywhere.
Not true. You know you're looking for a university, and you have your guess about the location of the CDC.

When people talk about making an educated guess, it's think kind of process they're talking about. Look for something - literally ANYthing - that might help reduce options. Look for another something that could help reduce options. Then take a guess from the remaining options.

Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 pm
Back in vexillology, how'd you do in today's flag category?
I got $200 and $800. Negged with "cow" at $400; had no idea whatsoever on $600; and I honestly have no recollection of the $1,000 clue being revealed.
See. You can come up with answers, even if you don't know the flags. Apply the same thinking to FJ clues. Yes, they're harder. Yes, you're going to get a lot wrong. But in a way, that's the idea. They're supposed to be hard.
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:47 pm
Not true. You know you're looking for a university, and you have your guess about the location of the CDC.

When people talk about making an educated guess, it's think kind of process they're talking about. Look for something - literally ANYthing - that might help reduce options. Look for another something that could help reduce options. Then take a guess from the remaining options.
There are literally millions and millions of towns that the CDC could be in if you don't know offhand. There are literally thousands of universities in the US. Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by mikebdoss » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm
There are literally millions and millions of towns that the CDC could be in if you don't know offhand. There are literally thousands of universities in the US. Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
If you assume the CDC is a) large (and therefore in a large city), and b) university-run, if not government-run, that limits your choices down to a few dozen cities. Maybe not enough to give you the answer, but better than "millions and millions".

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:12 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm

Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
That's still a better chance than leaving it blank.

Seriously, you keep asking how we get to the answer. Some of us just know stuff over the course of our lifetimes. Others of us don't know that much stuff, but can make reasonable logical jumps to get there, or at least guess.

Asking for a city? Guess a big city. Asking for colors of a flag? Guess some normal colors. It doesn't even seem like you're trying.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:16 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm
Peter the accountant wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:47 pm
Not true. You know you're looking for a university, and you have your guess about the location of the CDC.

When people talk about making an educated guess, it's think kind of process they're talking about. Look for something - literally ANYthing - that might help reduce options. Look for another something that could help reduce options. Then take a guess from the remaining options.
There are literally millions and millions of towns that the CDC could be in if you don't know offhand. There are literally thousands of universities in the US. Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
There are literally less than 50,000 towns total in the US
And is "penis" a bad guess for "a word in the English language" now?

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:19 am

mikebdoss wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm
There are literally millions and millions of towns that the CDC could be in if you don't know offhand. There are literally thousands of universities in the US. Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
If you assume the CDC is a) large (and therefore in a large city), and b) university-run, if not government-run, that limits your choices down to a few dozen cities. Maybe not enough to give you the answer, but better than "millions and millions".
Large things aren't always based out of large cities. Size doesn't always equal fame. I'm sure nearly everyone could tell you what Kitty Hawk, North Carolina is famous for, and its population is only about the same as the podunk town I live in now.
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:12 am
Asking for a city? Guess a big city. Asking for colors of a flag? Guess some normal colors. It doesn't even seem like you're trying.
Because when I do guess, it's a.) always a total ex-recto because I have literally nothing to narrow it down, and then b.) wrong because of the previous point. So often, the words of the clue are utterly meaningless to me, or so vague that they might as well be meaningless.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:29 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:19 am
mikebdoss wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:05 pm
There are literally millions and millions of towns that the CDC could be in if you don't know offhand. There are literally thousands of universities in the US. Calling that an "educated guess" is like saying "name a word in the English language" and putting down "penis" is an "Educated guess". Because that is a word in the English language, and you guessed a word in the English language.
If you assume the CDC is a) large (and therefore in a large city), and b) university-run, if not government-run, that limits your choices down to a few dozen cities. Maybe not enough to give you the answer, but better than "millions and millions".
Large things aren't always based out of large cities. Size doesn't always equal fame. I'm sure nearly everyone could tell you what Kitty Hawk, North Carolina is famous for, and its population is only about the same as the podunk town I live in now.
True, but if you have no idea, a large city is still a good guess.
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:19 am
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:12 am
Asking for a city? Guess a big city. Asking for colors of a flag? Guess some normal colors. It doesn't even seem like you're trying.
Because when I do guess, it's a.) always a total ex-recto because I have literally nothing to narrow it down, and then b.) wrong because of the previous point. So often, the words of the clue are utterly meaningless to me, or so vague that they might as well be meaningless.
So learn! You have nothing to lose. Guess at it!
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:35 am

1stlvlthinker wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:29 am
True, but if you have no idea, a large city is still a good guess.
Which is like saying any cheese is a good guess when they want Liederkranz. How do I know that they're not actually looking for, say, Toomsuba, Mississippi? There's a very good chance they could be!
1stlvlthinker wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:29 am
So learn! You have nothing to lose. Guess at it!
Again. Guessing has never been the right way for me. Literally every guess has been wrong. Ever.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:28 pm

There is literally no chance of ever getting
SpoilerShow
The Right Stuff
if you've NHOI. Just saying.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:37 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:28 pm
There is literally no chance of ever getting
SpoilerShow
The Right Stuff
if you've NHOI. Just saying.
The difference between you and everyone else, is everyone else tries to learn from missing questions. You're okay wallowing in your ignorance because it gives you a built-in excuse for missing a question.

Let me ask you this. What have you learned about The Right Stuff since you posted that you knew nothing about it?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:38 pm

1stlvlthinker wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:37 pm
Let me ask you this. What have you learned about The Right Stuff since you posted that you knew nothing about it?
That there is a thing called "The Right Stuff". Is it ever going to come up again? Highly unlikely. I doubt "amuse bouche" is ever going to come up again either.
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