The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by RKane » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:11 pm

CailinGaoilge wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:38 pm
As another person with dyscalculia, I can tell you that seeing line after line of numbers and mathematical instructions unfortunately sends my brain screaming in the opposite direction: not only can I not take it in, but it might as well be written in Ancient Greek for all the sense it initially makes, and even trying to make sense of it gives me a headache.
Yes, I can appreciate that.

However, you don't post math questions here asking for help and then complain nonstop when such help is offered.
I may never be on Jeooardy!, but I did instaget a Final Jeopardy in the final round of a high-level tournament that stumped both Ken and Brad.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:09 am

tiwonge wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:53 pm
Even with reading about it, you might get things mixed up a bit, but eventually, hopefully, you'll learn something that might stick.
I've never seemed to find a way to make things stick. Even if it's something I actually am passionate about (country music, cartoons, shopping malls/retail), I constantly draw blanks or fail to internalize something after seeing it 9001 times. I'm starting to seriously wonder if something is going wrong in my brain. Winning on Wheel was one of the only things I had any ounce of confidence in, but that's only one thing. It's one of the only times in my entire LIFE that I've had something go "right" for me. But there are a bajillion things that I've been trying and trying for, only to fail so many times that I might as well have not tried at all.

I find also that I want the gain without the work. I want to be more knowledgeable, but I don't want to learn; I just want the info to already be in my brain. I want to be comfortably rich but not work for it -- not even "working" at something I love, because work that you enjoy is still work. I have a passion for creating new and interesting characters (yes they're furry -- keep your ignorant hateful comments on the fandom to yourself), but I often don't know what I want to do with them. I've had nearly a decade's worth of world building, but I don't know what kind of stories I want to tell. Which spirals into me seeking inspiration, but not knowing where to turn because I've rarely read books or watched movies or episodic television and have no idea what might catch my interest -- nor have I had many interesting real-life experiences to draw from, or even the means to make something interesting happen in my life. (In fact, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I go to these cons -- to surround myself with like minded people with whom I can easily socialize.) I've got characters who are 400 years old in-universe; surely they've got SOMEthing cool going on, but hell if I know what at this moment. I want THEM to show ME their stories without ME working for it, but it doesn't work that way.

I've got a lot stacked against me. I'm 31, I have no job skills, little capacity for learning, I'm still constantly held under the thumb of a bigoted and unsympathetic control freak, I'm not "disabled" enough to qualify for disability, and there doesn't seem to be any other way of getting the help I need.

Maybe I just need to learn to drive that Mazda I won, load it up, and drive any fucking where but here.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by squarekara » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:28 am

As Peter the Accountant said, "the stupid trivia game" is part of a larger issue. Unfortunately, this is not the best forum for tackling that problem.
People here care enough to spend considerable time and energy walking through mathematical operations, paths of deduction, etc., but where does that lead? Don't use "the stupid trivia game" as a measure of worth against which you must always fall short. Why put undue pressure on yourself over something you admittedly do not "work" on? If information recall and retention is difficult for you, so what? See if you can enjoy "the stupid trivia game" without kicking yourself over misses. You may find that you can live without habitually berating yourself post-game. If not, you may be echoing something unhealthy and "unsympathetic," and it might be time to shift focus. See what kind of headway you can make in other creative outlets--characters and stories--without the distraction of "the stupid trivia game."

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:29 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:09 am
I've never seemed to find a way to make things stick. Even if it's something I actually am passionate about (country music, cartoons, shopping malls/retail), I constantly draw blanks or fail to internalize something after seeing it 9001 times. I'm starting to seriously wonder if something is going wrong in my brain. Winning on Wheel was one of the only things I had any ounce of confidence in, but that's only one thing. It's one of the only times in my entire LIFE that I've had something go "right" for me. But there are a bajillion things that I've been trying and trying for, only to fail so many times that I might as well have not tried at all.

I find also that I want the gain without the work. I want to be more knowledgeable, but I don't want to learn; I just want the info to already be in my brain. I want to be comfortably rich but not work for it -- not even "working" at something I love, because work that you enjoy is still work. I have a passion for creating new and interesting characters (yes they're furry -- keep your ignorant hateful comments on the fandom to yourself), but I often don't know what I want to do with them. I've had nearly a decade's worth of world building, but I don't know what kind of stories I want to tell. Which spirals into me seeking inspiration, but not knowing where to turn because I've rarely read books or watched movies or episodic television and have no idea what might catch my interest -- nor have I had many interesting real-life experiences to draw from, or even the means to make something interesting happen in my life. (In fact, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I go to these cons -- to surround myself with like minded people with whom I can easily socialize.) I've got characters who are 400 years old in-universe; surely they've got SOMEthing cool going on, but hell if I know what at this moment. I want THEM to show ME their stories without ME working for it, but it doesn't work that way.

I've got a lot stacked against me. I'm 31, I have no job skills, little capacity for learning, I'm still constantly held under the thumb of a bigoted and unsympathetic control freak, I'm not "disabled" enough to qualify for disability, and there doesn't seem to be any other way of getting the help I need.

Maybe I just need to learn to drive that Mazda I won, load it up, and drive any fucking where but here.
Wow - you've got a lot going on there. Let me say a couple of things.

Gain without the work. That's a pretty common thing. I have felt that way many times in my life. I suspect a lot of people have. When I was in school - especially the earlier years through perhaps Jr High - I was able to do that. I was a pretty smart kid. I could read before I started kindergarten. I could always impress my teachers because things stuck in my head easily, and I was intensely curious. I'd read the encyclopedia for fun. Unfortunately, that got me used to getting some gain without working hard. I became (and still am) lazy. I don't like to work hard at things. By the time high school rolled around, I was a genuine underachiever. I could have got straight As, but I wouldn't do the work. I could get an easy B just by attending class and taking tests. I rarely did the assigned homework and my grades suffered for it, but that was good enough for me because I learned the material. I didn't take the more difficult classes that I should have because they were too much work. (Hence my ongoing problem with literature topics on J!)

All of that affects me 4 decades later. I still haven't learned to consistently work hard. I do just enough to scrape by. When I do work harder, it's because of crisis, not to avoid the crisis in the first place. I can see the train wrecks coming and often do nothing about them. (Heck, I'm avoiding a crisis right now by typing this instead of doing some critical work!)

On the other hand, you have developed some characters that have the potential to be interesting. You say it's a passion, but that's what takes the work out of it. Or maybe that's what makes you work hard at it. You have accomplished something there, just like you have accomplished winning on Wheel. Don't diminish those accomplishments.

You've mentioned you're a church organist. That's another significant accomplishment. And it could be the first door to open to get some help. Even if you don't consider yourself a member of the church you're playing for, try talking to the pastor there. They often have connections in the community who can help with some of your issues. Perhaps he or she can recommend someone more appropriately trained to help with your specific problems. Maybe they'll help advocate for you. You've got to start somewhere, and that can be a pretty good place to start.

You might also try to find an online discussion group (like this one) that's for aspiring writers. It sounds like you've got the beginnings of something that could be interesting. Maybe you can toss ideas around there. Talk about what makes for interesting stories. Find out what makes stories bad so you can avoid that. Figure out what the next steps are to creating a story. The best part about this is that you don't have to be a public failure. Write something and put it aside. Go back and read it again and see if it still works for you. If it doesn't, change it. It's your world - you can do whatever you want with it. You just need to get on to the next step. Maybe just take two characters and tell a little bit about how they met or how they relate to each other now - whenever "now" is in their world. Then do the same for two more. Or for three more. Whatever tickles your fancy. Find a way to keep your passion for the characters moving forward. If you find the characters interesting, chances are that other people will, too.
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:29 am
Gain without the work. That's a pretty common thing. I have felt that way many times in my life. I suspect a lot of people have. When I was in school - especially the earlier years through perhaps Jr High - I was able to do that. I was a pretty smart kid. I could read before I started kindergarten. I could always impress my teachers because things stuck in my head easily, and I was intensely curious. I'd read the encyclopedia for fun. Unfortunately, that got me used to getting some gain without working hard. I became (and still am) lazy. I don't like to work hard at things. By the time high school rolled around, I was a genuine underachiever. I could have got straight As, but I wouldn't do the work. I could get an easy B just by attending class and taking tests. I rarely did the assigned homework and my grades suffered for it, but that was good enough for me because I learned the material. I didn't take the more difficult classes that I should have because they were too much work. (Hence my ongoing problem with literature topics on J!)
That's about where I was. I could read when I was only 2, and I skipped 3 grades. This put me massively out of my element, and many of my HS teachers saw me as a threat because of how far ahead I was. Several of them actually tried to sabotage my work to try and fail me, and the administration was hardly anymore sympathetic. I actually got an assistant fired because she was repeatedly verbally abusive to me.

I remember on nearly every test, I would read the assigned text over and over and over, and then come test time, I would be faced with a question and think "now where was THAT in the text? I don't remember that at all!" I know I got better at this, because I rarely had that problem in college, and actually got an A in a US History class that still remains my favorite college class ever.
Peter the accountant wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:29 am
You might also try to find an online discussion group (like this one) that's for aspiring writers. It sounds like you've got the beginnings of something that could be interesting. Maybe you can toss ideas around there. Talk about what makes for interesting stories. Find out what makes stories bad so you can avoid that. Figure out what the next steps are to creating a story. The best part about this is that you don't have to be a public failure. Write something and put it aside. Go back and read it again and see if it still works for you. If it doesn't, change it. It's your world - you can do whatever you want with it. You just need to get on to the next step. Maybe just take two characters and tell a little bit about how they met or how they relate to each other now - whenever "now" is in their world. Then do the same for two more. Or for three more. Whatever tickles your fancy. Find a way to keep your passion for the characters moving forward. If you find the characters interesting, chances are that other people will, too.
I'm in several such groups on Telegram, Discord, and FurAffinity, and I have Skype friends who've been helping me for years. They give me ideas, and I don't know how to execute them because they deal with elements that I'm not at all familiar with. But then again, I'm familiar with nothing -- even if it's something as simple as "this character works in a dollar store", that bogs me down instantly because I don't know how ANYthing in retail works. I don't know how stocking shelves works, how a cash register works, anything -- and thus I instantly drown in a sea of "I don't know"s just trying to create something so simple.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by CailinGaoilge » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 pm
... But then again, I'm familiar with nothing -- even if it's something as simple as "this character works in a dollar store", that bogs me down instantly because I don't know how ANYthing in retail works. I don't know how stocking shelves works, how a cash register works, anything -- and thus I instantly drown in a sea of "I don't know"s just trying to create something so simple.
Write what you know. So, instead, your character works in a fast-food restaurant. Doesn't have to be McDonald's - after all, the story should be about the characters rather than a blow-by-blow account of how the food is made. But you know fast food. You know customers - the entitled, the slow, the indecisive, the impatient, the complainers - so you can use those as well. Write a scene with your character telling another character about his/her day, and the other character reacting. So then you have a conversation. That's a start.

And you don't have to know how a cash register works (what? McDonald's never trained you on cash?) to have a character who uses one as part of their job. Even as a customer, you know that there are lines, there are customers who painstakingly count out the exact amount in nickels and dimes and pennies, there are people whose credit/debit cards get rejected or can't find their wallets, who argue about the price of something, or look like they want to win Extreme Couponer of the Month. Readers rarely want every little detail; just those points that ring true and have them nodding, because haven't we all encountered (or been behind in a queue) a complainer or someone who keeps changing their mind, or someone who yells at the staff member. Haven't we all encountered lazy co-workers who are never there when you need help, or a supervisor who's let power go to his/her head, or idiotic management rules that achieve nothing but making workers' lives miserable? So hit these little details, that's all you need, but most of all show your characters to the reader. Show us why we should care about them.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 pm

CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
Write what you know. So, instead, your character works in a fast-food restaurant. Doesn't have to be McDonald's - after all, the story should be about the characters rather than a blow-by-blow account of how the food is made. But you know fast food. You know customers - the entitled, the slow, the indecisive, the impatient, the complainers - so you can use those as well. Write a scene with your character telling another character about his/her day, and the other character reacting. So then you have a conversation. That's a start.
I don't know the customers since I'm in grill all the time.
CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
And you don't have to know how a cash register works (what? McDonald's never trained you on cash?)
CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
there are customers who painstakingly count out the exact amount in nickels and dimes and pennies, there are people whose credit/debit cards get rejected or can't find their wallets, who argue about the price of something, or look like they want to win Extreme Couponer of the Month.
I actually don't know any of that.

Wouldn't that be hella boring though? Same reason I don't get the appeal of Dilbert. You know office work is boring; why do you wanna read something that just reinforces that? I know if I were writing "bawwwww fast food is boring" comics, I'd throw them out the window two pages in because it's just reinforcing stuff I already know.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by RKane » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:55 pm

I know you're hell-bent on never letting anyone give you advice, but:
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 pm
But then again, I'm familiar with nothing -- even if it's something as simple as "this character works in a dollar store", that bogs me down instantly because I don't know how ANYthing in retail works. I don't know how stocking shelves works, how a cash register works, anything -- and thus I instantly drown in a sea of "I don't know"s just trying to create something so simple.
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 pm
Wouldn't that be hella boring though? Same reason I don't get the appeal of Dilbert. You know office work is boring; why do you wanna read something that just reinforces that? I know if I were writing "bawwwww fast food is boring" comics, I'd throw them out the window two pages in because it's just reinforcing stuff I already know.
you're going have to pick a direction in which you want to be obtuse.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by CailinGaoilge » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 pm
CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
Write what you know. So, instead, your character works in a fast-food restaurant. Doesn't have to be McDonald's - after all, the story should be about the characters rather than a blow-by-blow account of how the food is made. But you know fast food. You know customers - the entitled, the slow, the indecisive, the impatient, the complainers - so you can use those as well. Write a scene with your character telling another character about his/her day, and the other character reacting. So then you have a conversation. That's a start.
I don't know the customers since I'm in grill all the time.
CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
And you don't have to know how a cash register works (what? McDonald's never trained you on cash?)
CailinGaoilge wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm
there are customers who painstakingly count out the exact amount in nickels and dimes and pennies, there are people whose credit/debit cards get rejected or can't find their wallets, who argue about the price of something, or look like they want to win Extreme Couponer of the Month.
I actually don't know any of that.

Wouldn't that be hella boring though? Same reason I don't get the appeal of Dilbert. You know office work is boring; why do you wanna read something that just reinforces that? I know if I were writing "bawwwww fast food is boring" comics, I'd throw them out the window two pages in because it's just reinforcing stuff I already know.
When did you last read any fiction? Pick up a novel you like, or a comic book you like, and start reading it critically. What makes you interested in these characters? How does the dialogue flow? What about the descriptions is interesting? What makes you want to read more? And let that guide you as you start writing yourself. You could also see if your local library has this.

Or maybe you don't actually want to write. Don't feel you have to, but I hope you find something you do want to do.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by jeffwolfe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:27 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:09 am
I have a passion for creating new and interesting characters (yes they're furry -- keep your ignorant hateful comments on the fandom to yourself), but I often don't know what I want to do with them. I've had nearly a decade's worth of world building, but I don't know what kind of stories I want to tell. Which spirals into me seeking inspiration, but not knowing where to turn because I've rarely read books or watched movies or episodic television and have no idea what might catch my interest -- nor have I had many interesting real-life experiences to draw from, or even the means to make something interesting happen in my life. (In fact, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I go to these cons -- to surround myself with like minded people with whom I can easily socialize.) I've got characters who are 400 years old in-universe; surely they've got SOMEthing cool going on, but hell if I know what at this moment. I want THEM to show ME their stories without ME working for it, but it doesn't work that way.
I've had characters do that for me, but I had to get to know them first. And, you know, world building all by itself can be fun. I once built a world for a role-playing character I was playing. The role-playing group disbanded before I had a chance to do anything with it, but I still enjoyed creating the world.

Question: Do your 400-year-old characters have opposable thumbs? The whole discussion of how cash registers work got me to wondering this. If they don't have opposable thumbs, it doesn't matter how human cash registers work, because they would work differently for these people. Either way, it sounds like an interesting world.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:31 pm

Found a clue from Last April that has me scratching my head (Maritime Flags of Convenience for $400 in this game):
F.O.C. offer fewer regs & lower fees; on paper, the Marshall Islands in this ocean has one of the world's largest fleets
What does the first half of the clue have to do with the second? Fleets of what?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:31 pm
Found a clue from Last April that has me scratching my head (Maritime Flags of Convenience for $400 in this game):
F.O.C. offer fewer regs & lower fees; on paper, the Marshall Islands in this ocean has one of the world's largest fleets
What does the first half of the clue have to do with the second? Fleets of what?
Fleets of merchant ships. Because Marshall Islands has lower fees and fewer regulations for their ships, they're a popular country for others to register with.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:36 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:31 pm
Found a clue from Last April that has me scratching my head (Maritime Flags of Convenience for $400 in this game):
F.O.C. offer fewer regs & lower fees; on paper, the Marshall Islands in this ocean has one of the world's largest fleets
What does the first half of the clue have to do with the second? Fleets of what?
A good trivia question will either teach you something, or possibly lead you to the right answer. This seems to be the former.

Think of how boring the question is, if it was simply "What ocean is the Marshall Islands in?"
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:39 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 pm
=
Fleets of merchant ships. Because Marshall Islands has lower fees and fewer regulations for their ships, they're a popular country for others to register with.
Okay, now I understand it less. What does the rest of the clue have to do with ships at all?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:08 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:39 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 pm
=
Fleets of merchant ships. Because Marshall Islands has lower fees and fewer regulations for their ships, they're a popular country for others to register with.
Okay, now I understand it less. What does the rest of the clue have to do with ships at all?
This one is mainly about reading the clue carefully. When you boil it down, it has nothing to do with ships, as you have correctly noticed. They're using the information about ships to disguise a relatively simple geography question. The disguise is what might make it a little harder than simply asking "The Marshall Islands are located in this ocean."

Part of the skill of a good J! player is to sort out the wheat from the chaff. This clue is one that puts that skill to the test.

It's a lot like the typical video clue from the clue crew. There's two sentences (or one really long one) with a sales pitch some general information about what's on screen. Then they finally get to the actual clue. The player can't completely ignore the sales pitch general info because that might help solve the clue. It becomes a bit of a test as to how much information you can hold on to in a short time, then sort through it to get at the question and solution.
--Peter

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:12 pm

And what does the latter half have to do with flags of convenience?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:25 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:12 pm
And what does the latter half have to do with flags of convenience?
The Marshall Islands is a country with a flag of convenience.

Not sure if you can make out my avatar, below "DISCO VOLANTE" it says "PANAMA" but the movie Thunderball took place, essentially, entirely in The Bahamas. Therefore, the Disco Volante should have been registered in The Bahamas and fly their flag because that's where it's most used, but instead it's registered in Panama. Thus you can conclude fees and regs are cheaper in Panama than The Bahamas, so in this instance, Panama is a flag of convenience.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:32 pm

Volante wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:25 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:12 pm
And what does the latter half have to do with flags of convenience?
The Marshall Islands is a country with a flag of convenience.

Not sure if you can make out my avatar, below "DISCO VOLANTE" it says "PANAMA" but the movie Thunderball took place, essentially, entirely in The Bahamas. Therefore, the Disco Volante should have been registered in The Bahamas and fly their flag because that's where it's most used, but instead it's registered in Panama. Thus you can conclude fees and regs are cheaper in Panama than The Bahamas, so in this instance, Panama is a flag of convenience.
Wait. Since when do ships fly flags?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by clprez » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:44 pm

lmgtfy

In particular there's a wikipedia entry

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:05 pm

See. This is what I mean. To learn one thing, I have to learn like 87 other things first, and it just bogs me down so hard.
Ten Pound Hammer

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