The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:15 pm

badgerfellow wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Still unanswered:
That said, I see no way to narrow it down [whether the North or South island of New Zealand is larger]. Looking at it on the map, both North and South look equally large to me. And looking at their actual square mileage, it's by no means a slam dunk. Especially since the smaller of the two has more population.
If you're looking for a shortcut regarding this fact, there isn't one. It appears you've already looked up everything you would want on this topic, which is a good start. Not sure what more you really want. Maybe learn what cities are on what island? Which one is the capital? That should be your next step.
Both Wellington (capital) and Auckland (largest) are on the North Island, which is the smaller of the two.

Any sort of logical way to approach this backfires. Surely, the more populous of the two would also be larger in size, right? Wrong. The one with both the capital and the largest city on it? Wrong. The one that has 3 of the 4 New Zealand cities I can actually name (Christchurch and Whangerei being the other two)? Wrong.

Usually in the top box, there's a way to puzzle it out if you don't know it outright. I did try to puzzle it out, but any sort of logical path leads me in the completely wrong direction.

Is there a way to puzzle this out, or is it just something you have to know cold? What am I missing that's supposed to get you to the right response? Top box clues are supposed to have an obvious tell that makes them gettable, and no matter which way I approach this, I don't see it.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by badgerfellow » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:33 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
badgerfellow wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:Still unanswered:
That said, I see no way to narrow it down [whether the North or South island of New Zealand is larger]. Looking at it on the map, both North and South look equally large to me. And looking at their actual square mileage, it's by no means a slam dunk. Especially since the smaller of the two has more population.
If you're looking for a shortcut regarding this fact, there isn't one. It appears you've already looked up everything you would want on this topic, which is a good start. Not sure what more you really want. Maybe learn what cities are on what island? Which one is the capital? That should be your next step.
Both Wellington (capital) and Auckland (largest) are on the North Island, which is the smaller of the two.

Any sort of logical way to approach this backfires. Surely, the more populous of the two would also be larger in size, right? Wrong. The one with both the capital and the largest city on it? Wrong. The one that has 3 of the 4 New Zealand cities I can actually name (Christchurch and Whangerei being the other two)? Wrong.

Usually in the top box, there's a way to puzzle it out if you don't know it outright. I did try to puzzle it out, but any sort of logical path leads me in the completely wrong direction.

Is there a way to puzzle this out, or is it just something you have to know cold? What am I missing that's supposed to get you to the right response? Top box clues are supposed to have an obvious tell that makes them gettable, and no matter which way I approach this, I don't see it.
Numbered list warning

1. Don't equate that large population = large area. Otherwise, under that thought, Alaska is the largest state in terms of population.
2. Top row boxes do not require an obvious clue. Keeping it simple is often the best way to approach these questions.
3. Focus less on why a top row is located there and more on obtaining knowledge to get to the correct answer. By asking WLT on everything, you're distracting yourself from the whole purpose of the game.
4. Repeating what I've already told you on here, put up or shut up.
5. All of this has already been told to you multiple times. Understand that your frustration in not getting these questions equates to our frustration in dealing with your questions, and that includes our perception that you won't change your mindset.

tl;dr Change your mindset about the game and we will all be better for it.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:41 pm

badgerfellow wrote:2. Top row boxes do not require an obvious clue. Keeping it simple is often the best way to approach these questions.
I did keep it simple. "There are two islands, one of the two is bigger". But I still see literally nothing pointing to that other than "flip a coin" or "I just KNOW". And that's not usually the case in the top box.
badgerfellow wrote:3. Focus less on why a top row is located there and more on obtaining knowledge to get to the correct answer.
And that's what I'm doing: trying to figure out what makes each island different, and why I should outright know which of the two is bigger.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:30 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
badgerfellow wrote:3. Focus less on why a top row is located there and more on obtaining knowledge to get to the correct answer.
And that's what I'm doing: trying to figure out what makes each island different, and why I should outright know which of the two is bigger.
Gonna be honest, I thought it was obvious South Island was larger...then I saw how large they actually are

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ew_Zealand

1 South Island 151,215 km^2
2 North Island 113,729 km^2

That's not real obvious from just looking on a map.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by zakharov » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:53 pm

I gotta go Team TPH on this one, that really seemed a "know it or don't" question. But now you know, and isn't that wonderful?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:00 am

TenPoundHammer wrote: Any sort of logical way to approach this backfires. Surely, the more populous of the two would also be larger in size, right? Wrong. The one with both the capital and the largest city on it? Wrong. The one that has 3 of the 4 New Zealand cities I can actually name (Christchurch and Whangerei being the other two)? Wrong.
So don't approach it logically. Sometimes J! clues are for knowing, not solving. Just tell yourself New Zealand has a big butt, and maybe that'll help you know the South Island is larger henceforth.

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by badgerfellow » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:45 am

Looking through some of my posts above and more about the clue in question, I was a tad harsh. Apologies, TPH. I was also thinking it was obvious South Island > North Island, but that was based on a spatial guess (South Island being really long north to south). So yes, it is YEKIOYD. Unfortunately, no shortcuts or TOM on this one.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:16 pm

So I'm now going through the rest of this thread, the earlier parts I didn't read before. This whole thing (if not a troll) seems like a classic extended case of growth model vs. mastery model. It just seems like TPH lifts up his hands at many categories and clues with "well, it's YKIOYD" and "WLT" this? There's no trying to learn here.

TPH, honest question: What do you do for a living?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:41 pm

1stlvlthinker wrote:So I'm now going through the rest of this thread, the earlier parts I didn't read before. This whole thing (if not a troll) seems like a classic extended case of growth model vs. mastery model. It just seems like TPH lifts up his hands at many categories and clues with "well, it's YKIOYD" and "WLT" this? There's no trying to learn here.

TPH, honest question: What do you do for a living?
I'm a church organist and a McDonald's grill cook.

I have never found a viable method to learn. Anything I do learn is completely scattershot; a random fact will stick in my head after only seeing it once, while something I've seen 1,000 times will end up not sticking. Lord of the Flies comes up all the time, but they seem to use a different fact to get to it every time, so nothing has stuck. Same thing with Ernest Hemingway.

And it doesn't seem to be a matter of interest either -- i.e., things sticking because they're something I find interesting. I've mentioned before that silly names usually stick to me, but even that's not foolproof. I can remember Scott Adams as the creator of Dilbert even though I never liked that comic strip, yet a more distinctive name like Juliette Gordon Low or Mark Zuckerberg eludes me literally every single time I need it. I'm very interested in fast food chains, but I couldn't tell you a thing about Jamba Juice. I love country music, but I keep blanking on the third single off Randy Houser's How Country Feels album, whereas I can tell you without fail which Metallica album has "Whiskey in the Jar" on it.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:44 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
1stlvlthinker wrote: TPH, honest question: What do you do for a living?
I'm a church organist and a McDonald's grill cook.
Ah, well that makes more sense now. I'm guessing there's not much time for discussions about trivial matters in either of those jobs. Whereas me and my coworkers talk about stupid stuff all day, like pop culture stuff.

No chance to play more trivia games online or at a bar?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:29 am

1stlvlthinker wrote:No chance to play more trivia games online or at a bar?
Trivia games still fall prey to the same thing: there's no pattern to whether or not I ever actually learn anything. More than once, I've played along to a rerun of J! and actually done WORSE the second time around. I've actually bombed categories that are usually in my wheelhouse, like retail/fast food, cartoons, music, and wordplay.

Also, the only bar anywhere near me doesn't do trivia. Nor do I have a way to get there.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:45 am

I can't believe I'm saying this, but you need to watch more entertainment shows. Some of the things you complain about are super simple and gettable to anyone knowing a little bit about anything. For you (and me for that matter), a lot of enjoyment is increasing your breadth on certain topics, then being pleasantly surprised when your one guess on a question in that topic turns out to be correct.

Start reading a lot of cliffs notes. Or read USA Today. They have a lot of 200 word articles that skim the surface on the topic. Get the main idea, move on.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:30 am

Also WOW. I'm now getting to the point where people are trying to teach TPH how to subtract. And this is a classic case of mastery vs. growth, but also a problem with our education system. As much as Common Core is criticized, CC aims to teach people multiple ways of doing something.

In this case, TPH doesn't seem to grasp the simple concept that addition and subtraction are inverses of each other. He also consistently asks "WHY" are we doing this, or talking about adding "random numbers" to get to the answer.

Here's a hint. Where we are going and where we are coming from are in the context of the question. And this seems to be a huge oversight. Read the damn question, pick out the important bits and move on from there.

I'm now getting to the point of being as frustrated as the longtime board members are now. I'll stop posting here.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:26 am

1stlvlthinker wrote:In this case, TPH doesn't seem to grasp the simple concept that addition and subtraction are inverses of each other.
That I get. The problem I keep running into is 1100-556=X. Okay, X+556=1100, solve for X. Subtract 556 from both sides, and we're right back where we started from with 1100-556.
1stlvlthinker wrote:He also consistently asks "WHY" are we doing this, or talking about adding "random numbers" to get to the answer.
Because I was never taught "add up incrementally to get to where you're going". I was only taught that adding this to this equals this, or subtraction requires borrowing.
1stlvlthinker wrote:Here's a hint. Where we are going and where we are coming from are in the context of the question.
Huh?
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:42 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
1stlvlthinker wrote:In this case, TPH doesn't seem to grasp the simple concept that addition and subtraction are inverses of each other.
That I get. The problem I keep running into is 1100-556=X. Okay, X+556=1100, solve for X. Subtract 556 from both sides, and we're right back where we started from with 1100-556.
1stlvlthinker wrote:He also consistently asks "WHY" are we doing this, or talking about adding "random numbers" to get to the answer.
Because I was never taught "add up incrementally to get to where you're going". I was only taught that adding this to this equals this, or subtraction requires borrowing.
1stlvlthinker wrote:Here's a hint. Where we are going and where we are coming from are in the context of the question.
Huh?
Okay. Seriously.... We start at 556 and keep adding until we get to 1100. That's what I mean by contextual clues here. And don't blame your previous schooling at this point. You're (presumably) an adult, it's time to start learning on your own.

Here's what I mean from this. You're getting to the problem X + 556 = 1100. So let's try that, without any borrowing.

556
+ abc (abc represents the digits of a 3 digit number)
-------
1100

In order to get to the 0 in the ones place, what can we add to 6 to get there? This is not random. We're trying to get to 0 in the ones place. Repeat with the other digits and you'll get your answer.

This does require understanding of that a ones place, tens place, and hundreds place actually mean.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:27 am

I'm getting confused by that explanation.

If you're trying to do 1100-556 in your head consider doing it this way:

1100-556 = (1100-600)+(600-560)+(560-556) = 500+40+4 = 544

The -600 and +600 cancel out. The -560 and +560 cancel out.

I'm pretty sure when most people do that in their head they don't visualize the +-600 and the +-560 as placeholders, they simply know that 560-556 is 4, and 600-560 is 40, and 1100-600 is 500, so they do 4+40+500 because they've practiced doing it hundreds of times and they know that it gives them the answer.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:52 am

And that's a totally fine way to do it. But then we'd get into the "Where did 600 come from" part of the discussion.
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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:04 pm

Are we really doing this again?

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by MDaunt » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:23 pm

1stlvlthinker wrote:Start reading a lot of cliffs notes. Or read USA Today. They have a lot of 200 word articles that skim the surface on the topic. Get the main idea, move on.
Or...read a book?

Looking for some way to know the answer is Lord of the Flies? Read the book.

Trying to figure out if it's Hemingway? Read Hemingway.

Etc.

All of these things are rewarding in their own right, whether the show existed or not. If TPH is not willing to read a book, and he doesn't seem to be, then do not expect him to learn anything. He's either the internet's longest-running troll (in which case: kudos), or he's lazily ignorant and happy to be that way (except when he's watching Jeopardy).

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Re: The Official TPH Education Thread (POTENTIAL GAME DAY SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:41 pm

MattKnowles wrote:I'm getting confused by that explanation.

If you're trying to do 1100-556 in your head consider doing it this way:

1100-556 = (1100-600)+(600-560)+(560-556) = 500+40+4 = 544

The -600 and +600 cancel out. The -560 and +560 cancel out.

I'm pretty sure when most people do that in their head they don't visualize the +-600 and the +-560 as placeholders, they simply know that 560-556 is 4, and 600-560 is 40, and 1100-600 is 500, so they do 4+40+500 because they've practiced doing it hundreds of times and they know that it gives them the answer.
Where are 600, 560, and 556 coming from?
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