Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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JeopRDFan
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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by JeopRDFan »

cosmos wrote:After Julia's FJ was wrong and they revealed her wager, Ben was shaking his head and talking to himself. With my admittedly poor lip reading skills, it seemed he said "bad job, bad job" as if he was expressing disapproval of her.

(corrected typo)
Ha, ha -- I'll have to replay that, I can't see him saying something like that out loud (thinking it, maybe, or more likely mouthing it) -- perhaps he just said "bad luck, bad luck". I also misinterpreted the FJ clue, thinking they were looking for an off year; unlikely I would have gotten it anyway. A great game -- I just hope Julia can recover and improve her speed as there seemed to be a long period of time where she didn't answer anything (glad she got that TDD!).

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

That there was some high-level Jeopardy, folks! All three great players, though Arthur would have dominated the boards if Julia hadn’t hit those DDs. I don’t know what the record is, but $56,600 total entering FJ has at least gotta be close.

Looking forward to tomorrow with great anticipation.
 
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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

I understood what they were asking for, but it did take a few seconds to figure out. I agree it was something not easy to describe in one sentence.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by nightreign »

I, too, read the question wrong, and I didn't understand what the clue was asking for (how can people be running for president if no one is running for president?) until a good couple minutes after the responses were revealed. I wouldn't have gotten 1920 anyway, seeing as I didn't know FDR ran.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mrsal67 »

Onairb wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:Arthur is doing well with the material and buzzer. It's the DDs and the FJ! clue that can sink him.
Yes, it seemed like he answered twice as many questions as anyone else. I'm sure he didn't really, but it seemed that way.

I guess I'm the only one who couldn't even parse the FJ question. I spent the entire time trying to understand what it meant. It's clear now that I've stared at it for a while, but my brain just couldn't unravel it at the time.
You're not the only one. Like others, I thought they were talking about an off-year congressional election, then when I realized they were still talking about a Presidential year with no 'familiar' names, I thought they were looking for one of the 3-candidate Presidential races. Another one of those clues that just couldn't be shortened enough to make sense in the constraints of the board.
Glad I'm not the only one that got confused. I was headed towards 1920 but kept thinking it was some type of off year election.
I think if they added the word "sitting" just before President, it would have made sense. At least to me.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH »

This probably is not much consolation since I am not a ToC caliber player, but it took me 10-15 seconds to understand what the FJ clue was asking for.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Setho »

I haven't posted here or read this board in a while, but if you go back to look at my previous posting you can see that I am not the biggest Julia fan. In my opinion her wins have been mainly due to buzzer speed, weak opponents, and a very healthy dose of luck (moreso than most people) rather than a large amount of knowledge. In the tournament of champions this has been especially true.

Julia is all buzzer and little brains. Now that the boards have gotten more difficult, it is very rare that you see Julia answer questions on the bottom half of the board. THis was especially true last night when she barely answered as many questions as Arthur. Once Julia ran into a player with similar buzzer speed to her as Arthur does, she wasn't even able to answer many questions in the top half of the board. Almost half of Julia's score before final jeopardy came from two really easy daily doubles. Had she not landed on those clues she would have been completely irrelevant going into game 2.

Her route to the finals has been more good fortune than anything else. In both of her games she has had the good fortune of playing against college students. I don't have anything against college students, but its clear that younger contestant can be at a disadvantage because they simply do not have the life experience to be able to recall answers by having lived through the events referred to in the question.

Her opponents have collapsed around her. In Julia's second game Jared completely blew it on the daily doubles and basically handed the lead to Julia. It is true she was the only one to get the final jeopardy question right, but that brings me to my next point.

She has been incredibly lucky. I don't know why, but it always seems like when Julia's back is against the wall, something happens to push her in front of her opponents. Some might say this is an indication that she is an amazing skilled player. I completely disagree and find her to just simply be an incredibly lucky person. Whenever there is a decisive clue that could give Julia the lead or the win it is always super easy or something she guesses correctly on. This was so true in last night's game where Julia hit two daily doubles that were pretty much instagets and bet big to keep herself in the game. Hell, one of the daily doubles even put her in the lead.

I always said that when Julia runs into real competition she will wilt. Last night's game proved that. I look forward to seeing this game posted on J-Archive because I am pretty sure it will show that if she didn't get the super easy daily doubles she would have been absolutely smoked by Arthur and Ben. I know Julia is incredibly popular because people like to see an underdog do well and she seems more like a normal person than most Jeopardy contestants. But I want to see the best of the best win. Arthur truly demonstrated that he is far superior than Julia and if he doesn't shoot himself in the foot in game 2 by playing too risky of a strategy I expect him to win. Of course with all of Julia's popularity, I expect she is the one the producers want to do well. Perhaps that has something to do with her progress through the tournament so far.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman »

The Roman numerals category is a great place to hit a DD. You have extra time to figure out the translations. Of course, you have to know the main part of the clue, but you have a hint that there are only seven possible letters they can start with.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by lieph82 »

Setho...dude...

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by zakharov »

Setho wrote:blah blah blah
That is way, way too many words about your hate for a top-level player on a game show.
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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by legendneverdies »

darkgreenblue wrote:Some folks made mention of Brad Rutter being in the studio audience, or of being in the audience themselves... Is this common? I mean, do former champions often show up for these tournaments, and do some local Jeopardy enthusiasts attend lots of tapings?

(Maybe I should know the answers already from reading this board, but I must have missed such discussions.)
SOme of the J! champions live in the CUlver City, CA aired, like Jerome Vered for one. Brad Rutter moved to that area a few years back, he was originally from Lancaster, PA.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH »

I guessed that setho conveniently missed the post that showed that Julia's Coryat was only $800 less than Ben's.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Lumosityfan »

Setho also missed the point that Julia had to play a very impressive (if not in the QF) champion in Jared Hall. (Yes, I know that Hall messed up those Daily Doubles, but still.)
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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by lieph82 »

StevenH wrote:I guessed that setho conveniently missed the post that showed that Julia's Coryat was only $800 less than Ben's.
But she doesn't get all of the $2000 TOC clues ergo she sux

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Setho »

It would be nice if people actually addressed my arguments. Unlike those of you who just say blah blah blah I will actually address the points raised against me.

Julia's Coryat- First things first it was less than Ben's therefore she did not play as well as Ben. Further as you will notice I said Julia is all buzzer and less brains. Julia made her total by nailing top half of the board clues. She is better than Ben on the buzzer and used that to her advantage. Ben managed to pull ahead of Julia by answering more difficult questions. I think we can all agree we want the most knowledgeable (notice I said knowledgeable not intelligent, there is a difference) to win Jeopardy. After all, it is a quiz show based on knowledge. This isn't a show purely about fastest reaction time.

Jared Hall- My only response is that you had to write "but still." Jared shot himself in the foot with those DDs. Julia did not beat Jared, Jared beat Jared.

Ergo Julia sucks- I never said Julia sucks. I said she was not the strongest Jeopardy player everyone makes her out to be. I did not attack her personally. I simply pointed out her good fortune and the fact that her record isn't what everyone makes it out to be. Julia's true Jeopardy credentials are tested when she faces strong competition and luck doesn't go her way. In that respect, Julia has not been impressive. She has played 3 games in the tournament thus far and only won one of them. She scraped through to the second round of the tournament as the final wild card and was fortunate in her semi-final game. Arthur has been tearing up his competition in the tournament as he did during his run on the show. Ben has also played very well and had an insurmountable lead going into FJ in his semi-final. All in all I would say Julia is the weakest of the 3 finalists and arguably didn't prove herself more worthy than others to make the finals like some other players have.

What it comes down to is what characteristics you want to see in a Jeopardy champion. Do you want someone who has an incredible amount and breadth of knowledge or do you want to see a nice person of above average intelligence who seems like someone you could be friends with. Personally, I view Jeopardy for what it is, a quiz show. I want the person who knows the most and has the quickest recall to win. In my opinion that is Arthur and to a lesser extent Ben. It is definitely not Julia. She is a nice enough person, but she does not deserve the plaudits she so frequently receives. Judge her by how she plays and wins not by how much you like her as a person.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

My wife's opinion of Julia is very similar to Setho's. She even thinks the show is gaming the system to "feed her" categories they think she'd do well in.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vanya »

Setho wrote:I think we can all agree we want the most knowledgeable (notice I said knowledgeable not intelligent, there is a difference) to win Jeopardy. After all, it is a quiz show based on knowledge. This isn't a show purely about fastest reaction time.

No, we can't. I want the luckiest person to win, because if I ever get on the show, it's the only way I will win. And it is a show about reaction time. That's what makes Jeopardy stand out from other game shows. I don't care who wins this TOC, I just want Arthur to lose.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by whatisbishkek »

Setho wrote:words
Okay, you seem to be decrying Julia for relying on buzzer speed rather than knowledge, but when I watched yesterday's game it looked like the biggest factor separating Arthur from the other two players was... superior buzzer speed.

Yes, Arthur is probably better than Julia in a single-game or tournament setting. That doesn't mean Julia isn't a truly great player (and I don't think anyone here has ever tried to put her on the Jennings/Rutter tier, so you seem to be exaggerating people's praise of her). Plus, especially in the sky's the limit era, superior stamina is a significant factor in someone being a great player, which Julia clearly has, whereas Arthur flamed out earlier in his run due to fatigue.

And let's not forget that Julia's impressive performance in this tourney came while she was feeling so ill that she almost decided to drop out.

Really, it's pretty ridiculous that you would come post this long rant denigrating one of the players after one of the best games of Jeopardy ever thanks to the strong performances by all three players.

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Woof »

Wow, what an incredible display of Jeopardy skill by all 3. To me, this first TOC final was on a par with some of the best BoTD matches. Yes, Arthur was impressively fast on the buzzer, Julia showed enough strategic sense to TDD on the initials DD (given the longer time to answer, I'd go TDD in that category any time) and Ben awed me with his FJ get. Yes, it was a gettable clue, but in the 30 sec of FJ? While Think Music is playing and cameras are trained on you? Not a chance that I could have done it. But I got Lach Trash: Malcolm X!! Woot! :P

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Re: Thursday, November 20, 2014 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Setho »

This Is Kirk! wrote:My wife's opinion of Julia is very similar to Setho's. She even thinks the show is gaming the system to "feed her" categories they think she'd do well in.
I admit that watching the show I have said the same thing. The DD's always seem to be in categories she knows well. Rationally, I know it could never be true, but it seems that way sometimes.
Vanya wrote: No, we can't. I want the luckiest person to win, because if I ever get on the show, it's the only way I will win. And it is a show about reaction time. That's what makes Jeopardy stand out from other game shows. I don't care who wins this TOC, I just want Arthur to lose.
I said the show is not PURELY about fastest reaction time. It is a combination of knowledge and reaction time. I don't feel that Julia has the best combination of these skills. It is pretty well established that once you react the ToC and especially the finals of the ToC all the players are buzzing in for pretty much each question and it is about who gets in faster. I'm pretty sure last night that wasn't the case as much and it will probably be the same tonight.
whatisbishkek wrote: Okay, you seem to be decrying Julia for relying on buzzer speed rather than knowledge, but when I watched yesterday's game it looked like the biggest factor separating Arthur from the other two players was... superior buzzer speed.
Arthur answered difficult questions where he was the only one buzzing in. There was definitely times where Arthur was pushing his buzzer furiously while Julia's hands were still.
whatisbishkek wrote: Yes, Arthur is probably better than Julia in a single-game or tournament setting. That doesn't mean Julia isn't a truly great player (and I don't think anyone here has ever tried to put her on the Jennings/Rutter tier, so you seem to be exaggerating people's praise of her). Plus, especially in the sky's the limit era, superior stamina is a significant factor in someone being a great player, which Julia clearly has, whereas Arthur flamed out earlier in his run due to fatigue.
First of all, outside of the Jeopardy fan community Julia gets way more praise than 99% of Jeopardy champions. There are probably more people out there who know her than Brad Rutter, which is quite frankly ridiculous. She gets more press than average and is always referred to as the all time winningest female jeopardy champion or as a 20 time winner. The ordinary public views Julia as one of the all time greats, which is what I take issue with. Her stats are good, but if you look below the surface I don't think there is justification.

Julia does have stamina, but I don't think that necessarily makes her a better player. Julia lets her competition defeat itself. She rarely guesses unless she has to and pretty much only answers questions she is nearly certain about. That is clear from the number of triple stumpers on her episode. I don't know if Arthur flamed out from fatigue or if he just plays a riskier strategy, but regardless he is certainly more entertaining to watch.
whatisbishkek wrote:
And let's not forget that Julia's impressive performance in this tourney came while she was feeling so ill that she almost decided to drop out.

Really, it's pretty ridiculous that you would come post this long rant denigrating one of the players after one of the best games of Jeopardy ever thanks to the strong performances by all three players.
I question that illness. Perhaps its a ruse to temper any expectations people had about her performance on the show. She didn't look so sick on the show last night or in the semi-finals. I also don't believe it for a second that Julia ever considered not playing in the tournament. Its pure speculation, but the fact that they are introducing Julia as a 20 time winner rather than by her profession leads me to believe that she is still unemployed. She won a lot on the show, but not enough to be set for life. No rational person would turn down the opportunity to win a lot more money and get more exposure by playing in the tournament.

Regarding last night's episode's being one of the best games ever... that had very little to do with Julia. Arthur dominated, especially in DJ. The fact that Julia's score going into FJ was nearly 50% due to DDs (neither of which were particularly difficult) shows she contributed very little to the overall scores.

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