Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by whoisalexjacob » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:39 pm

Kid Charlemagne wrote:
omgwheelhouse wrote:
Huh? Defend both of them or neither. Makes no sense to be so much harsher on Brad. Some of Stephanie's guesses were really ugly. It's not like she got to -6800 on a bunch of Oxford-Cambridge-type misses...
Hmmmm....well, two things. First, I figure enough derision has been poured on the -6800 that I don't have much to add. (Other than the taking a long time to pick the next category in the early going when she was competitive, which probably contributed to the overall experience from the viewer's perspective. Like watching one of those baseball games where the pitcher takes forever between pitches and throws to first anytime there's a runner there.)

Second, people who don't do anything in circumstances like this actually bother me more. It's one thing to get steamrolled by an all-time great performance, or simply bested by two really good players. What I judge harshest is a situation like this where you're standing between a champ clearly having an off night and a fellow challenger who flashed a few skills in the early going but self-destructed in the most epic fashion possible...and do that.

I guess because this message board is so full of people who think they've got the chops (some probably do) to get on the show for real, the really low Coryat games are the ones that get people's dander up the most.
Fair enough. I thought Brad had a good get on "wikiup".

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by DBear » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:17 pm

Silverfox wrote:Wow. Look at this. 141 posts for this show. Is that a record( or near one) ?
Not even close. There was one game where a contestant basically waved the white flag with her wager that got hundreds of posts.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:24 pm

The emanciptation and triple zero teen games were the longest threads, I think.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:27 pm

The four longest daily discussion threads are (in order of longest to shorter)

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 (Thomasgate)
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 (Arthur Chu game 12)
Friday, May 16, 2014 (BotD final game)
Thursday, February 7, 2013 (Triple zero game)

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:37 pm

bpmod wrote:The four longest daily discussion threads are (in order of longest to shorter)

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 (Thomasgate)
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 (Arthur Chu game 12)
Friday, May 16, 2014 (BotD final game)
Thursday, February 7, 2013 (Triple zero game)

Brian
How the heck did you do that, Brian?

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:45 pm

alietr wrote:
bpmod wrote:The four longest daily discussion threads are (in order of longest to shorter)

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 (Thomasgate)
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 (Arthur Chu game 12)
Friday, May 16, 2014 (BotD final game)
Thursday, February 7, 2013 (Triple zero game)

Brian
How the heck did you do that, Brian?
At the bottom of the main page, there are some fields you can use to sort. I sorted everything in descending order by post count (replies as they call it).

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Caboom » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:45 am

Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: I said zipping, I wonder if that would be acceptable? I think the clue asked for something that unites parts of files that are stored separately (are the files stored separately, or are the parts stored separately?), zipping does achieve that.
Nope. Zipping is compression. It also makes the file unusable until you decompress it. It also leaves the original file scattered everywhere (unless you delete it, and until then it will take up more space)

What defragging does is it takes all the little bits of one file that are scattered all over the hard drive and lines them up in a row so the HD doesn't have to read little bits all over every platter and just zips through the file in one go. (Not applicable if you have a solid state drive.)

And apparently, defrag can free up space, though its more tangential to the process, so they lucked out on that part of the clue too.
I'm not saying zipping is the same as defrag. Whather the file is usable while zipped doesn't matter, as that wasn't specified in the clue.

What I'm saying is that for me zipping also fits the clue, which said: "this process that maximizes disk space is so named because it joins up pieces of files that were stored separately".

So the parts of the clue that need to match the answer (or the question), are:
1) process
2) maximizing disk space
3) named for a specific reason
4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vanya » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:30 am

Caboom wrote:
Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: I said zipping, I wonder if that would be acceptable? I think the clue asked for something that unites parts of files that are stored separately (are the files stored separately, or are the parts stored separately?), zipping does achieve that.
Nope. Zipping is compression. It also makes the file unusable until you decompress it. It also leaves the original file scattered everywhere (unless you delete it, and until then it will take up more space)

What defragging does is it takes all the little bits of one file that are scattered all over the hard drive and lines them up in a row so the HD doesn't have to read little bits all over every platter and just zips through the file in one go. (Not applicable if you have a solid state drive.)

And apparently, defrag can free up space, though its more tangential to the process, so they lucked out on that part of the clue too.
I'm not saying zipping is the same as defrag. Whather the file is usable while zipped doesn't matter, as that wasn't specified in the clue.

What I'm saying is that for me zipping also fits the clue, which said: "this process that maximizes disk space is so named because it joins up pieces of files that were stored separately".

So the parts of the clue that need to match the answer (or the question), are:
1) process
2) maximizing disk space
3) named for a specific reason
4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
Since a zip file is unusable until it is expanded, it does not maximize disk space at all. In fact it will use more space unless you are constantly deleting the original files after zipping, or deleting the zip file after expanding, neither of which is a natural part of the zip process.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Judy5cents » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:21 am

Kid Charlemagne wrote:
omgwheelhouse wrote:
Huh? Defend both of them or neither. Makes no sense to be so much harsher on Brad. Some of Stephanie's guesses were really ugly. It's not like she got to -6800 on a bunch of Oxford-Cambridge-type misses...
Hmmmm....well, two things. First, I figure enough derision has been poured on the -6800 that I don't have much to add. (Other than the taking a long time to pick the next category in the early going when she was competitive, which probably contributed to the overall experience from the viewer's perspective. Like watching one of those baseball games where the pitcher takes forever between pitches and throws to first anytime there's a runner there.)

Second, people who don't do anything in circumstances like this actually bother me more. It's one thing to get steamrolled by an all-time great performance, or simply bested by two really good players. What I judge harshest is a situation like this where you're standing between a champ clearly having an off night and a fellow challenger who flashed a few skills in the early going but self-destructed in the most epic fashion possible...and do that.

I guess because this message board is so full of people who think they've got the chops (some probably do) to get on the show for real, the really low Coryat games are the ones that get people's dander up the most.
I may be stating the obvious here, but being on Jeopardy! for real is not like playing it with your pretend signalling device in the serenity and comfort of your own home.

Most likely you've traveled a long way to get there. The night before you are jet lagged, excited and nervous and you don't sleep all that well. If you stay in the Doubletree Inn (most contestants do, since it offers a discount & a free shuttle to SONY studios) you're up and ready for the minibus at 7:30 AM, clutching your four changes of clothes. It's your big moment and you're running on adrenaline.

After the preparation in the green room and rehearsal, the games begin. The contestant coordinators draw names from a hat for the challengers. For me that was the most maddening part of the experience, because there is no guarantee that any contestant will be on the show. If you're taping on a Wednesday and your name isn't drawn, you go home and wait for them to call you back. They usually have contestants on hand from California for whom it's easier to make a return trip if they're not selected to play. However, that possibility looms over you--that you came all this way and you won't get on.

Stephanie and Brad waited for their names to be drawn three times. The they went to lunch at the SONY commissary and probably worried about getting mustard on their clothes. When they got on, it was mid afternoon after a long day of anxiously waiting and watching.

Finally, the categories you get are the categories you get. They can come up with some pretty obscure ones. For me it was "Canadian Maritime Provinces." For Brad and Stephanie it was "Phineas & Ferber."

We've all just watched one of the most disappointing, humiliating moments in their lives. Granted, most contestants don't implode like they did, but it could happen to anybody, regardless of their Coryat scores. So don't be so snarky and judgmental until you've stood under the lights and seen the minus sign on your score.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Caboom » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:31 am

Vanya wrote:
Caboom wrote:
Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: I said zipping, I wonder if that would be acceptable? I think the clue asked for something that unites parts of files that are stored separately (are the files stored separately, or are the parts stored separately?), zipping does achieve that.
Nope. Zipping is compression. It also makes the file unusable until you decompress it. It also leaves the original file scattered everywhere (unless you delete it, and until then it will take up more space)

What defragging does is it takes all the little bits of one file that are scattered all over the hard drive and lines them up in a row so the HD doesn't have to read little bits all over every platter and just zips through the file in one go. (Not applicable if you have a solid state drive.)

And apparently, defrag can free up space, though its more tangential to the process, so they lucked out on that part of the clue too.
I'm not saying zipping is the same as defrag. Whather the file is usable while zipped doesn't matter, as that wasn't specified in the clue.

What I'm saying is that for me zipping also fits the clue, which said: "this process that maximizes disk space is so named because it joins up pieces of files that were stored separately".

So the parts of the clue that need to match the answer (or the question), are:
1) process
2) maximizing disk space
3) named for a specific reason
4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
Since a zip file is unusable until it is expanded, it does not maximize disk space at all. In fact it will use more space unless you are constantly deleting the original files after zipping, or deleting the zip file after expanding, neither of which is a natural part of the zip process.
Since the compression makes the resulting zip smaller than the original file, I think an argument can be made it saves disk space. Obviously if you keep both files you end up losing space, but that would depend on the user. What's the point of keeping a zip file if you also keep the original? And I don't know about all archiving programs, I only checked winrar, but it does have an option to delete the original files after archiving.

Also, in the newer Windows systems you can use zip files just like normal files, no decompression needed. I suppose Windows does a temporary decompression to enable that. You can have files compressed, therefore saving space, and use them like normal files, while windows removes any temporary files afterwards. If you have a lot of compressed files, and only have to temporarily have windows decompress a few of them, the end result is certainly saved space.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Woof » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:34 am

Caboom wrote:
Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: I said zipping, I wonder if that would be acceptable? I think the clue asked for something that unites parts of files that are stored separately (are the files stored separately, or are the parts stored separately?), zipping does achieve that.
Nope. Zipping is compression. It also makes the file unusable until you decompress it. It also leaves the original file scattered everywhere (unless you delete it, and until then it will take up more space)

What defragging does is it takes all the little bits of one file that are scattered all over the hard drive and lines them up in a row so the HD doesn't have to read little bits all over every platter and just zips through the file in one go. (Not applicable if you have a solid state drive.)

And apparently, defrag can free up space, though its more tangential to the process, so they lucked out on that part of the clue too.
I'm not saying zipping is the same as defrag. Whather the file is usable while zipped doesn't matter, as that wasn't specified in the clue.

What I'm saying is that for me zipping also fits the clue, which said: "this process that maximizes disk space is so named because it joins up pieces of files that were stored separately".

So the parts of the clue that need to match the answer (or the question), are:
1) process
2) maximizing disk space
3) named for a specific reason
4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
A file is defined as a region of disk space with an entry in the directory block. Even if you split a larger document into smaller pieces, each is a separate file unless you do some really wacky file system voodoo. So, to me, zipping is a distinct activity. As Volante mentioned, defragging doesn't really free up much disk space. What it really does is maximize usable disk space as it creates large swaths of contiguous disk space. It may also reduce the number of directory entries, but that's unlikely to free up space.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:36 pm

Caboom wrote: 4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
If your disk is heavily fragmented, the zipped file will be just as fragmented as the source file. More likely it'd end up worse.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Caboom » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:49 pm

Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: 4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
If your disk is heavily fragmented, the zipped file will be just as fragmented as the source file. More likely it'd end up worse.
I'm not disagreeing with this. What I meant by joining files or joining pieces of files, is that after zipping, they're in one file, therefore joined together (well, you could have a multi part archive as well). I think it's a reasonable way to understand the clue, even though it's not what the writers meant originally.
Woof wrote: A file is defined as a region of disk space with an entry in the directory block. Even if you split a larger document into smaller pieces, each is a separate file unless you do some really wacky file system voodoo. So, to me, zipping is a distinct activity.
The reason I believe zipping fits the clue is that it can have multiple purposes. You can join multiple files into a single archive, you can split a single file into a multi part archive (with or without compression), and you can use it to just compress one or more files.

The compression part of zipping maximizes disk space, while combining multiple files into a single zip file fits with the "joining up files" part of the clue. Perhaps the only problem then is that it joins files, rather than pieces of files. And that's why I gave as an example the possibility of using zipping as a way to join together, in a zip file, parts of a larger file that was previously split (whether by zipping or by some other method). For example a lot of the pirated content, especially smaller programs, are first split into rars, and then put inside a single zip (or so I've heard ;) ).
Woof wrote:As Volante mentioned, defragging doesn't really free up much disk space. What it really does is maximize usable disk space as it creates large swaths of contiguous disk space. It may also reduce the number of directory entries, but that's unlikely to free up space.
I'm not sure I understand how maximizing usable disk space differs from freeing up space. As far as I know the disk space isn't really unusable, even if it's scattered around, the hard drive just operates slower. I've always had the impression that defrag doesn't really free up space (but I'll take your word for that it does to a small extent), instead making the hard drive read and write faster by rearranging the files (and the free space) so that they're complete blocks and not scattered around.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BigDaddyMatty » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:09 pm

I know both jack and squat about the technical aspects of the zip/defrag debate, but, at least according to Wikipedia, it appears that zip should be negged based on the "is so named because..." portion of the clue. Thus spake Wikithustra:
The .ZIP file format was created by Phil Katz of PKWARE. He created the format after his company had lawsuits filed against him by Systems Enhancement Associates (SEA) claiming that his archiving products were derivatives of SEA's ARC archiving system. The name "zip" (meaning "move at high speed") was suggested by Katz's friend, Robert Mahoney. They wanted to imply that their product would be faster than ARC and other compression formats of the time.
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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Caboom wrote:
Volante wrote:
Caboom wrote: 4) joining pieces of files that were stored separately

1 and 2 are given (2 more so than in defrag). For number 3 it seems plausible that zipping could have been named after a zipper as it can be used like a zipper, joining up two (or more) files together, just like a zipper joins up two pieces of cloth. Number 4 also comes pretty close. Whether zipping is used to join up files or pieces of files depends on the user, it's certainly possible to have a large file in multiple pieces that are then zipped into one archive.
If your disk is heavily fragmented, the zipped file will be just as fragmented as the source file. More likely it'd end up worse.
I'm not disagreeing with this. What I meant by joining files or joining pieces of files, is that after zipping, they're in one file, therefore joined together (well, you could have a multi part archive as well). I think it's a reasonable way to understand the clue, even though it's not what the writers meant originally.
But a file is already in one file, both inside and outside of a compressed package, according to the file system.
And the pieces of files aren't joined after you zip them on the hard disk itself; they're still stored separately.

Compression reduces space, it does not (by design) join disconnected pieces of a single file together.

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Caboom » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:18 pm

Volante wrote:But a file is already in one file, both inside and outside of a compressed package, according to the file system.
A file can be easily split into multiple pieces, whether by making a multi part archive (zip or another format) or by other means. You could say the original file is still one file inside those multiple packages, but you could also easily say that each package contains a separate part or piece of the original file.
Volante wrote:And the pieces of files aren't joined after you zip them on the hard disk itself; they're still stored separately.
If you mean they're still multiple files inside the package, true. I'd still consider it "joining" them though, if they're inside a single package. If you mean they'll still be scattered on the hard drive, that would depend on the fragmentation of your free space. As the zip file is a new file, it'll be put into the available space, so if the space is scattered, so will be the pieces of the files. I don't see that this has any relevance though, as the "joining" part of the clue doesn't necessarily have to refer to defragmentation.
Volante wrote:Compression reduces space, it does not (by design) join disconnected pieces of a single file together.
Again true, but it can be used to achieve this, at least if you consider putting the files inside a single package "joining" them, as I do.

These are obviously all mute points now that Matty pointed out the origin of the word zip, making it clear (for me at least, I suppose others were already convinced) zipping doesn't fit the clue. Thanks Matty, I tried wikipedia'ing it earlier but failed miserably. :oops:

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Re: Thursday, March 12, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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