Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

That is the first I ever heard that 1 is not prime. There are other problems with the wording of the FJ clue, but I think I at least figured out what they meant, even if I came up wrong.

Congrats Kristin!

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mxc_takeshi »

34 right.

Vene (3), Travel (5), Com (4), Ele (3), Rock (3), Party (4)
Salem (0), Star (2), North (2)- Great Bear or Great Slave toss-up- right one, Enter (4), Comedy (1), "Quad" (3)

Lach Trash: "Julie Bowen"

I went past the 10's into the 20's and 23 pretty quickly.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Category 13 »

jjwaymee wrote: I can never keep straight whether Great Slave or Great Bear was the biggest lake in Canada. That was a near-disasterous miss and rebound against Kristin.
Not to mention the Blight/Fungus clue, which was a $4000 swing in Colin's favor.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by zakharov »

Was "mold" acceptable for the fungus clue?
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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ElendilPickle »

What a great game! Congratulations, Kristin.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH »

Now that I saw the FJ: I loved the clue! Of course, there was no way that I wasn't going to blank on it; I guessed 33.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by evanakm »

Instaget, but they've overturned responses before after finding an old reference book that agrees with a player. Mathematicians disagreed on the primeness of 1 until relatively recently, and you can find math reference books from the 70s that call 1 prime.

While 1 is generally accepted to be nonprime, it's not as if there was a congress of mathematicians who set the rule. I'm sure you can still find a couple grey-haired mathematicians who are contrarians on this issue.

The writers may have been asking for a little bit of trouble with this one.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by doihavetoreally »

elijahjt wrote:
doihavetoreally wrote:
elijahjt wrote:
I wonder, does Jeopardy! have clues along the lines of "This is the X that also fits Y limitation", when the solution satisfies "This is the X" alone? I didn't think they went for such trick questions, but do they?
What?
The clue today was essentially [slight rewording here] This is the smallest two-digit prime number whose digits are themselves prime numbers.

If 11 were the answer (i.e. if 1 were a prime number), the clue could have just been "This is the smallest two-digit prime number". I'm curious if Jeopardy! has a habit of asking questions where the clue has an unnecessary limitation (in this hypothetical, "whose digits are themselves prime numbers").
Thanks for the example: much clearer. I guess most FJ clues try to balance obfuscation and TOM. Whatever works.
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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OSXpert »

evanakm wrote:Instaget, but they've overturned responses before after finding an old reference book that agrees with a player. Mathematicians disagreed on the primeness of 1 until relatively recently, and you can find math reference books from the 70s that call 1 prime.

While 1 is generally accepted to be nonprime, it's not as if there was a congress of mathematicians who set the rule. I'm sure you can still find a couple grey-haired mathematicians who are contrarians on this issue.

The writers may have been asking for a little bit of trouble with this one.
Just wait until they make a Final Jeopardy that assumes that the axiom of choice is valid!

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Linear Gnome »

I confess that I almost said 37. That would have been really silly.

I'm going to spoiler the next paragraph for graphic mathematical content.
Spoiler
While the prime factorization argument is compelling and doesn't require specialized knowledge, the best reason not to consider 1 to be prime is that it has a multiplicative inverse in the set. In the integers, it's useful to categorize elements as (1) zero, which always is special; (2) invertible elements, 1 and -1 in the integers; (3) prime, such as 3 or -5, which means that it's not in category (1) or (2) and the only factorizations are into 1 times the number or -1 times the negative of the number; and (4) composite numbers, for which there are other factorizations, such as -6 = 2 times -3. There are more general algebraic structures in which the elements can be categorized analogously. The elements in category (3) are building blocks, while the elements in category (2) lack any building blocks.
Back to grading Calc III tests. Go Kristin!

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Johnblue »

DBear wrote:
omgwheelhouse wrote:What a heartbreaker for Colin. Math terms... not high on most people's lists of study topics. Big congrats to Kristin for (probably) securing a tournament spot!
Nah, Colin would've had it won had he been more familiar with the Salem witch trials.

Nicely done! It seemed like Alex gave him a long time to get it so I came up with it. It's always nice to see a come-from-behind win! Congrats to Kristin. One thing among many I learned in my two trips to Australia last year is that Melbourne is their sport-capitol & it's also their second largest city.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

dhkendall wrote:I wonder if Alex's tie (and Kristin's top) colour was deliberate today ...
I assume some Wardrobe person chose Alex's tie and did so with the date in mind. Kristin has worn green for four of her five games.
Spoiler
She was wearing brown the day she missed with "Who is Mean Joe Browne?" If only that clue had come on any other day. :lol:

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

PlayerWM86 wrote:For the automobile racing fan I am, I got Melbourne in the J! round.
Sadly, for "second largest Aussie city" I guessed Salzburg. I kid you not. :oops:

Turns out the correct wrong response was Graz.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MDaunt »


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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

What I get from that is that a prime number is a number which has exactly one prime factor. 1 is not prime because it has zero prime factors. If it were prime, it would have exactly one prime factor.

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

evanakm wrote:Instaget, but they've overturned responses before after finding an old reference book that agrees with a player. Mathematicians disagreed on the primeness of 1 until relatively recently, and you can find math reference books from the 70s that call 1 prime.
If you can find one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I agree that Colin should be invited back if this is the case.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer »

Ran Elements, and 4/5 in Compound. I have NHO "buttonhole" in either of those contexts.

I can play piano, organ, mandolin, guitar, bass, and most forms of percussion.

What led to American Express on Brands for $600?

I said Con Ed on the DD since I didn't know what the Con stood for. I assume it would fly.

Brad Paisley and Lady Antebellum? Thanks for the easy $2,600.

Party was totally over my head. I somehow knew that $600 was Ventura but had no idea what party. Also, is there any reason I should know who Eric Cantor is? He seems really low on the political totem pole unless you're from Richmond, VA.

There's an Irish Sea?!? I was completely hopeless on that category. I guess you could say I was… at sea. YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!

I predicted that "college quad is short for this" would come up in "Quad"ruple, and I knew I was hosed since I had no idea what that was short for. I could've taken 400 guesses and never gotten quadrangle.

"Numbers, huh? Well, I've been making a ton of references to The Number 23*, so why not? Wait, smallest two digit prime... I know 1 isn't prime, so it's gotta be in the 20s. 21 and 22 are out… are you freaking kidding me?" Weirdest precall/instaget ever.

Holy CRAP was that a nail biter. Colin really put the pressure on, and I was worried Kristin was sunk with that lowball wager, but a misfire from Colin worked in her favor.

*Seriously, The Number 23 was not THAT bad. I liked it and know at least three other people who do. And yet it gets an 8% on Rotten Tomatoes?!
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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr »

It doesn't matter if 1 is a prime number or not; 11 can't be a right answer. The clue specified that "both themselves prime numbers" meaning it couldn't be the same digit. 13 would have been a much more problematic answer (which I almost fell for).

Congratulations once again, Kristin. Dodged a real bullet there, but I knew you could do it.

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

Great job, Kristin! Mrs Penguin and I cheered when we saw your wager. But I still figured we'd be saying good-bye to you. Couldn't believe Colin missed it. Poor guy. I kind of wish you'd missed it too, just so people could see how savvy your bet was. Only they would've called it luck or Voodoo as they shook their heads in disbelief.

Here's to tomorrow when you win $39,800! Right?

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Re: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by lieph82 »

OSXpert wrote:
evanakm wrote:Instaget, but they've overturned responses before after finding an old reference book that agrees with a player. Mathematicians disagreed on the primeness of 1 until relatively recently, and you can find math reference books from the 70s that call 1 prime.

While 1 is generally accepted to be nonprime, it's not as if there was a congress of mathematicians who set the rule. I'm sure you can still find a couple grey-haired mathematicians who are contrarians on this issue.

The writers may have been asking for a little bit of trouble with this one.
Just wait until they make a Final Jeopardy that assumes that the axiom of choice is valid!
Until we get Math Jeopardy, I wouldn't even hold your breath on hearing "axiom of choice" on the show.
Linear Gnome wrote:I confess that I almost said 37. That would have been really silly.

I'm going to spoiler the next paragraph for graphic mathematical content.
Spoiler
While the prime factorization argument is compelling and doesn't require specialized knowledge, the best reason not to consider 1 to be prime is that it has a multiplicative inverse in the set. In the integers, it's useful to categorize elements as (1) zero, which always is special; (2) invertible elements, 1 and -1 in the integers; (3) prime, such as 3 or -5, which means that it's not in category (1) or (2) and the only factorizations are into 1 times the number or -1 times the negative of the number; and (4) composite numbers, for which there are other factorizations, such as -6 = 2 times -3. There are more general algebraic structures in which the elements can be categorized analogously. The elements in category (3) are building blocks, while the elements in category (2) lack any building blocks.
Back to grading Calc III tests. Go Kristin!
This is a great argument for algebraists, but what's convenient for an algebraist is not necessarily convenient for other mathematicians!
Last edited by lieph82 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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