Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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OldSchoolChamp
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

TomKBaltimoreBoy wrote:[E]ven esteemed SHC champs do not gain ex cathedra status, my friend. We do not get to issue pronouncements, merely debate the finer points.
. . . which is exactly what I thought I was doing. No need to get ad hominem about it. (Well, OK, perhaps some of my earlier remarks might have sounded a bit ad hominem themselves, for which I hereby apologize and retract.)

Look, I really don’t want to get into a flame war with you over this, but can you show me where I tried to “issue pronouncements” or claim ex cathedra status? My friend? You must admit yours does seem to be a minority opinion here. Let’s just wait and see what the poll results show next week.
 
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TomKBaltimoreBoy »

Oh, I fully acknowledge I am in the minority here, which is why I've tried to seem less strident and more humorous as the debate has ground on. (SPOILER ALERT: I'm gonna lose on the poll.)

In re-reading some of my earlier posts, I fully admit that I seemed to be issuing edicts and judgments myself. Which is why I used "we" instead of "you"; heaven knows, my ego can use a good deflating every now and then. And, if the production crew relents and invites Scott back, I truly WILL be the only one still waiting for his serving of crow.

Although I am still slightly rankled at jeff presuming to speak for my mental state. Or maybe that's just because he uses an Abominations helmet for his avatar. In any case, I mean no ill will towards anyone, and have no desire to prolong any bitterness. Least of all to you, OSC, who I do consider a comrade in arms ever since the oldest Sony days.
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OldSchoolChamp
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

TomKBaltimoreBoy wrote:[H]eaven knows, my ego can use a good deflating every now and then.
Well, that certainly makes two of us.
In any case, I mean no ill will towards anyone, and have no desire to prolong any bitterness. Least of all to you, OSC, who I do consider a comrade in arms ever since the oldest Sony days.
OK, no harm, no foul. My friend. Nothing to see here, folks, move along.
Even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked.

—Bob Dylan

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr »

OldSchoolChamp wrote:
TomKBaltimoreBoy wrote:[H]eaven knows, my ego can use a good deflating every now and then.
Well, that certainly makes two of us.
In any case, I mean no ill will towards anyone, and have no desire to prolong any bitterness. Least of all to you, OSC, who I do consider a comrade in arms ever since the oldest Sony days.
OK, no harm, no foul. My friend. Nothing to see here, folks, move along.
Crud. Now what am I going to do with all these quatloos?

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

In my humble opinion, this is definite proof (as if there hadn't been an abundance of it before) that JBoard is the best place in the whole internet.

Brian
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Opal »

bpmod wrote:
Opal wrote:And sorry for posting the following unrelated content, but I couldn't get the search function to work to pull up the December 31, 2013 game. I wanted to post there that I found it odd that the weekend repeat this past Saturday showed Jerry, after his incident and him not being in the TOC as a result.

Again, very sorry but I couldn't find the thread... Feel free to move my post there.
There is a thread stickied to the top, titled "Looking for a particular discussion?" or something to that effect. I'm too lazy to link to it, after spending all of my energy creating and maintaining it.

Brian
Sorry, I'm stupid and didn't see that there... My apologies.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by goatman »

21 correct FJ in a row with this clue!
LT: billow, Dale Evans' horse = Buttermilk, Girls Scouts earn brownie points, Trebekistan population density, degree, 'Deep.'

IMHO champ was negged in error on this FJ. Sherazade is an acceptable alternate form of the girl in the title of the subject composition. That's a sloppy 'd'. :o
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett »

OldSchoolChamp wrote:
legendneverdies wrote:
OldSchoolChamp wrote:
floridagator wrote:The “Lucretia Garfield” that Brad beat me with in 2005 was a lot less legible than that . . . .
The correct response to the Lucretia Garfield clue was Crete, Garfield's nickname for his wife.
Yep, thanks for remembering my old game better than I did myself. I’ve edited my earlier post to correct.

The main point remains: everybody but a certain boy from Baltimore understands the clue to refer to the character for whom a certain orchestral suite is named, not to the title of the suite itself. (MarkBarrett, may I suggest a question on the next weekly poll?) Scott gave one of many plausible (transliterated) spellings of her name, and should have been credited with a correct response. He should have won this game.
Can I have a little more help in knowing what to ask on the poll as it seems like so much has already been covered on the Monday poll so far.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by goatman »

alietr wrote:
OldSchoolChamp wrote:
TomKBaltimoreBoy wrote:[H]eaven knows, my ego can use a good deflating every now and then.
Well, that certainly makes two of us.
In any case, I mean no ill will towards anyone, and have no desire to prolong any bitterness. Least of all to you, OSC, who I do consider a comrade in arms ever since the oldest Sony days.
OK, no harm, no foul. My friend. Nothing to see here, folks, move along.
Crud. Now what am I going to do with all these quatloos?
I'll wager 1000 quatloos on the newcomer! :shock:
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

gobobbygo wrote:The reason my appeal was turned down (http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3284) wasn't that "beneath the sea" wasn't a valid translation, but rather because the category was "literary translations" and there are essentially zero English translations that use "beneath" instead of "under."

Though, the magical thinking part of me is certainly abuzz with trying to find ways to argue that if Scott comes back, I should too.
For what it’s worth, Bobby, I think you had a case, too. The full, accurate title of the work in question is Vingt mille lieues sous les mers: Tour du monde sous-marin (“Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas: Underwater Tour of the World”). There’s nothing sacrosanct or “official” about any particular English translation of that title; different translators might render it differently. (Note that the commonly recognized English title changes “seas,” plural, to “sea,” singular.) If I were one of the Jeopardy! judges, I would accept any plausible English translation of the original French title.

Consider Marcel Proust’s seven-volume magnum opus, À la recherche du temps perdu (“In Search of Lost Time”). For decades, the canonical English edition was the translation by C. K. Scott Moncrieff, who chose to completely ignore the French title in favor of a phrase from one of Shakespeare’s sonnets, Remembrance of Things Past. Did that make Proust’s actual title (or the direct English translation thereof) incorrect? (Moncrieff also took liberties with several of Proust’s individual volume titles: rendering, for instance, À l’ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs (“In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower”) as Within a Budding Grove, Sodome et Gomorrhe (“Sodom and Gomorrah”) as Cities of the Plain, and Albertine disparue (“Albertine Vanished”) as The Sweet Cheat Gone.) It wasn’t until the 1990s that a new English translation was published under Proust’s original title, In Search of Lost Time. I would maintain that that should always have been an acceptable response to a Jeopardy! clue about the Proust work, with or without the new translation.

Now, having said all that, it’s also true that every Jeopardy! contestant signs a waiver acknowledging that all judging decisions are final and binding, and waiving any right to legal challenge. The show-runners are entirely within their rights to make any ruling they see fit, and immune from any legal action by a contestant who disagrees. But we also know that they make every effort to adjudicate fairly, and to offer redress to a legitimately aggrieved contestant. In your case, of course, I would think the statute of limitations has expired after 11 years (sorry!); but I do think Scott has a legitimate grievance, and in fairness I think he ought to be invited back to continue his run.
Last edited by OldSchoolChamp on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

gobobbygo wrote:The reason my appeal was turned down (http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3284) wasn't that "beneath the sea" wasn't a valid translation, but rather because the category was "literary translations" and there are essentially zero English translations that use "beneath" instead of "under."

Though, the magical thinking part of me is certainly abuzz with trying to find ways to argue that if Scott comes back, I should too.
Your case seems a little more iffy to me. I would have been fine with them accepting your response. (I'm sure you would have been too!) But I also understand their reasoning. The top clue in the category asks about "Im Westen nichts Neues" which literally translates as "In the West, Nothing New". If they accept that as a response, though, the category becomes "DO YOU KNOW THIS FOREIGN LANGUAGE?" The response they wanted and got was "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Still... man! That's a bitter pill, buddy. Sorry you had to go out that way. (Did you switch to Reeboks for life?) However Scott's case turns out, at least he gets to complain all the way to the TOC.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote:Can I have a little more help in knowing what to ask on the poll as it seems like so much has already been covered on the Monday poll so far.
If you put it in, I'd recommend something simple like "Scott's FJ response on Monday should have been judged correct." One could argue that my poll addresses this already. But here are two reasons I'd like to see it in yours: 1) Your poll is the poll of record for the JBoard. It's a great place to get a quick summary of This Week in Jeopardy!. A year from now, no one will remember my poll, so they won't search for it. They might look up yours, see the question about Scott's FJ, and decide to dig a little deeper to figure out what the kerfuffle was. 2) This is a complicated issue with various boardies announcing that they've changed their minds. We're still processing the info and the arguments. Your poll will give us a few days to contemplate and then push the button and say Final Answer, Regis.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey »

dhkendall wrote:
cosmos wrote:Alex apologized in the opening for his voice being hoarse, and then for the rest of the show his voice was dubbed later.
I noticed his voice was very much like what I hear on the Wii Jeopardy! game, so I figured it was dubbed, but then it was odd to hear the dubbed voice match up with his mouth on the times we saw him, particularly the player interviews. That's some good editing right there (but then, if the editing is that good, he could just have rerecorded the opening.)
Surely it's Alex who gets the credit for matching his words with his mouth movements. It's called looping, and movie and TV actors have to do it all the time. Couldn't say much for the creepy sound quality...

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mahatma »

davey wrote:
dhkendall wrote:
cosmos wrote:Alex apologized in the opening for his voice being hoarse, and then for the rest of the show his voice was dubbed later.
I noticed his voice was very much like what I hear on the Wii Jeopardy! game, so I figured it was dubbed, but then it was odd to hear the dubbed voice match up with his mouth on the times we saw him, particularly the player interviews. That's some good editing right there (but then, if the editing is that good, he could just have rerecorded the opening.)
Surely it's Alex who gets the credit for matching his words with his mouth movements. It's called looping, and movie and TV actors have to do it all the time. Couldn't say much for the creepy sound quality...
This is a very cool thing about our hearing. Although most of us couldn't quite describe the difference we're hearing, we know it's there. The acoustical environment of a soundstage sounds much more 'natural' to our ears/brains than the pure environment of a voiceover studio.

I've noticed this quite a bit on Project Runway and Top Chef. When they cut away from the host's face during a narration (of a challenge, or a prize package), they often switch to a dubbed vocal.

I wonder if we're more likely to pick up on this in a 'voiceover' situation, ie when we don't have a face to match up to the words.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vanya »

opusthepenguin wrote: I wonder if an argument from the Russian could be made as well. In that case, we wouldn't even have to worry about whether the clue is asking for the name of the character or the suite. Paging Uncle Vanya?
If this webpage
http://www.behindthename.com/name/shahrazad
is correct, then Scot definitely has an argument for coming back, unless you are TomK, in which case, the only correct answer is Shekherezada. Anyway, Sch... is wrong, imo, but not by Jeopardy standards. I suspect Russians added an a at the end because a d at the end of a word is pronounced like a t. Or because they wanted the name to be in the feminine gender.

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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

Vanya wrote:Anyway, Sch... is wrong, imo, but not by Jeopardy standards.
I suspect the Sch- spelling of the name has found its way into English by way of German transliterations, where that combination denotes the same sound as English sh. English speakers commonly make the mistake of misapplying the “sh” pronunciation to that letter combination in words and names from languages other than German, such as Italian bruschetta (properly pronounced “bru-sketta,” not “bru-shetta”) or Schiaparelli (“Skyap-a-rel-li,” not “Shap-a-rel-li”).

There may also be some confusion with the Cyrillic letter shcha (Щ), pronounced “shch” (actually a palatalized “st”), but in this case the Russian name doesn’t use that letter: it’s spelled with a sha (Ш), without the little tail on the end and pronounced like a straight English “sh.” The shcha letter can be seen, for example, in the former Soviet leader Khrushchev (Хрущёв)—pronounced, not “KROOSH-chev” but “Khroo-SHCHYOV.” The syllables divide before the “shch,” not between them (since the “shch” is actually a single letter), and the diacritic on the final vowel (don’t call it an umlaut, it’s not German!) makes it a “yo” (ё) rather than a short “e” or “ye” (е).
Last edited by OldSchoolChamp on Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, July 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett »

A neighbor across the street is having an estate sale (she's still living, but now moved to a care facility) and check out the item on the right. http://theyesco.info/#jp-carousel-20565

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