LL66 (For the LLamas)

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jfrumkin
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by jfrumkin » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:41 am

This jew had no chance at the Catholic question. As far as I know, Kyrie whatever-it-was is an awesome point guard.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by alietr » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:24 am

jfrumkin wrote:This jew had no chance at the Catholic question. As far as I know, Kyrie whatever-it-was is an awesome point guard.
Nor I. Never heard of it.

I've given up all hope for Thorsten. I had "Farfegnugen" for the Kyrie question and Alfred Packer for the chef. I was sure I was going to get BWA for one of them. Nada.

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by mennoknight » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:34 am

I thought my ¡Ay Dios Mio! answer for Kyrie was pretty good too.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Coelacanth » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:05 am

alietr wrote:Alfred Packer for the chef. I was sure I was going to get BWA for one of them. Nada.
If it's any consolation, I think this is one of the best BWA candidates I've seen.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by BigDaddyMatty » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:55 am

Can't believe I didn't know kyrie eleison. Not Catholic, don't sing, but I am a huge '80s music fan. I know I've looked up the phrase in connection with the Mr. Mister song, but I guess it didn't stick.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by squizzle » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:55 am

I'd like to give myself a hearty pat on the back for my first 9(6) yesterday. I must thank the SHC for that, though, because I definitely wouldn't have known Fremont just a week ago. Everything else was instaget basically.

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Vanya » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:10 am

mennoknight wrote:I thought my ¡Ay Dios Mio! answer for Kyrie was pretty good too.
I wonder if my "Amen to that" counts as a most common wrong answer (which is just Amen, not even a phrase).

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Woof » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:12 pm

Although I've sat through many Catholic masses with my in-laws, I've rarely heard a response of Kyrie Eleison (plenty of "may the Lord have mercy," though). Fortunately, my opera singer mother sang Vivaldi's "Kyrie" enough that I knew the term and by process of elimination was left with it after discarding "amen" (which I knew meant "yep") and (h)aleluya (which I knew meant "whoopie!").

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by TheyCallMeMrKid » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:25 pm

Woof wrote:Although I've sat through many Catholic masses with my in-laws, I've rarely heard a response of Kyrie Eleison (plenty of "may the Lord have mercy," though). Fortunately, my opera singer mother sang Vivaldi's "Kyrie" enough that I knew the term and by process of elimination was left with it after discarding "amen" (which I knew meant "yep") and (h)aleluya (which I knew meant "whoopie!").
If you are old enough (Pre-Vatican II) or attend a church that still performs the mass in Latin, you would've heard it there. I don't know that I've ever personally heard it in mass either (grew up Catholic), but did know it. Surprisingly beat Boardie tjconn, thanks mostly to that answer.

See a few people talking about their first 9(6) and I can see how I might have been able to do that, had I been playing SHC this year and gotten 2 coin flips right. Oh, well, maybe someday.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by ElendilPickle » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:35 pm

For manzanas y naranjas, I thought Thorsten wanted the English version of the proverb and answered "six of one, a half-dozen of the other." I'm considering asking for it to be counted as right, though I don't know that it would affect my score.

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Bamaman » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:56 pm

I lost 4(3)-2(2). I got apples and oranges and Fremont. I would have noticed my opponent's best category was TV and 4th best was food/drink and I might not have given them three on Flay.

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Woof » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:58 pm

ElendilPickle wrote:For manzanas y naranjas, I thought Thorsten wanted the English version of the proverb and answered "six of one, a half-dozen of the other." I'm considering asking for it to be counted as right, though I don't know that it would affect my score.
Is that the colloquial meaning of the phrase? I was thinking it was a cognate for "comparing apples and oranges"

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Lampy » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:02 pm

Woof wrote:
ElendilPickle wrote:For manzanas y naranjas, I thought Thorsten wanted the English version of the proverb and answered "six of one, a half-dozen of the other." I'm considering asking for it to be counted as right, though I don't know that it would affect my score.
Is that the colloquial meaning of the phrase? I was thinking it was a cognate for "comparing apples and oranges"
Yeah, "apples and oranges" is saying "you can't compare these" whereas "six of one, half a dozen of the other" is saying things are equivalent.

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by dhkendall » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:10 pm

ElendilPickle wrote:For manzanas y naranjas, I thought Thorsten wanted the English version of the proverb and answered "six of one, a half-dozen of the other." I'm considering asking for it to be counted as right, though I don't know that it would affect my score.
I dunno, the English proverbs "apples and oranges" and "six of one a half a dozen of the other" mean separate, almost completely different, things. I am guessing the Spanish use "manzanas y naranjas" in the same way we use "apples and oranges", so asking for consideration of a phrase that means the near opposite won't get you far.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by Rex Kramer » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:14 pm

ElendilPickle wrote:
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by teapot37 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:12 pm

Woof wrote:Although I've sat through many Catholic masses with my in-laws, I've rarely heard a response of Kyrie Eleison (plenty of "may the Lord have mercy," though). Fortunately, my opera singer mother sang Vivaldi's "Kyrie" enough that I knew the term and by process of elimination was left with it after discarding "amen" (which I knew meant "yep") and (h)aleluya (which I knew meant "whoopie!").
When I used to accompany my mom to mass, her church had a hymn they would sing every week where the words were "Kyrie Eleison / Christe Eleison / Kyrie Eleison". That and Mr. Mister got me that one.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by tjconn728 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:36 pm

TheyCallMeMrKid wrote:
Woof wrote:Although I've sat through many Catholic masses with my in-laws, I've rarely heard a response of Kyrie Eleison (plenty of "may the Lord have mercy," though). Fortunately, my opera singer mother sang Vivaldi's "Kyrie" enough that I knew the term and by process of elimination was left with it after discarding "amen" (which I knew meant "yep") and (h)aleluya (which I knew meant "whoopie!").
If you are old enough (Pre-Vatican II) or attend a church that still performs the mass in Latin, you would've heard it there. I don't know that I've ever personally heard it in mass either (grew up Catholic), but did know it. Surprisingly beat Boardie tjconn, thanks mostly to that answer.

See a few people talking about their first 9(6) and I can see how I might have been able to do that, had I been playing SHC this year and gotten 2 coin flips right. Oh, well, maybe someday.
Despite having been an altar boy for a few years, I couldn't come up with anything and was sure that I would instantly recognize the answer once submitted, but was glad to see I never would have gotten that. I think it "Kyrie Eleison" may be something the priest chants at some point, but I've never been able to make any sense of that part of the mass. Either way, congrats on the well-earned win!

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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by RandyG » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:09 pm

tjconn728 wrote: Despite having been an altar boy for a few years, I couldn't come up with anything and was sure that I would instantly recognize the answer once submitted, but was glad to see I never would have gotten that. I think it "Kyrie Eleison" may be something the priest chants at some point, but I've never been able to make any sense of that part of the mass. Either way, congrats on the well-earned win!
I recognized the phrase from having gone to many choral concerts over the years, but no way was I able to connect it to the question.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:14 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:Surely you will. Each of us faces a clear moral choice.
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Re: LL66 (For the LLamas)

Post by gobobbygo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:42 pm

schoe wrote:
gnash wrote:
schoe wrote:
gnash wrote:
seaborgium wrote: As far as I can tell, DE is calculated with a denominator of the total amount of match points possible beyond the minimum points for the given number right. For example, if your opponent scores 2(2), your DE for that match is .750. But if your opponent scores 3(3), your DE is .800 even though you gave up the same number of points beyond the minimum. And your DE for the two matches is .778 (of 9 extra points available in those two matches, you denied your opponents 7 of them).

Edit: And because 9(6)s and 0(0)s have no extra points possible, they don't affect DE; they add 0 to the numerator and the denominator.
I once looked at some alternative measures based on combinatorics, that would take into account the number of possible defenses that were better, equal, and worse. I'll have to dig that out sometime. I think the bottom line was that it wouldn't make much difference for most players.
I haven't thought through all the math, but at first blush, would a way of calculating DE that takes into account difficulty just be to keep a running total of how many points you deny your opponent, without doing the dividing? The difference between perfect defense and potential maximum is greatest at 3/6 right and least at 0/6 and 6/6, which correlates with the difficulty of defense. It would in some ways be the inverse of TMP, which similarly is not a percentage stat. (UfPA sort of tracks this, but UfPA, like DE, again weighs in favor of people who play 0(0) or 9(6) opponents who therefore have no unforced points to give; a stat that tracks how many points you block seems like a better measurement of defense to me.)
That would be a terrible measure, as it would obviously favor players in rundles where the average get rate is close to 50%. A good measure of defensive strength should depend as little as possible on the offensive strength of opponents.
Am I missing something? To me, that doesn't mean it favors people who play 0 or 6 opponents (not using pts here because they're not assigned yet), so much as it magnifies the decisions they do make. To put it another way, I don't think it changes rates, so much as it just reduces sample size (and, thus, increases variability).

But DE as it stands already depends on the offensive strength of opponents; as it's set up, DE favors players in rundles where the average get rate is close to 0% or 100%. The extreme example of course is a player who plays 24 opponents who each all get six right (or zero right) and a 25th opponent who gets five right (or one right) - that player need make only one right defensive decision the entire season to get a perfect 1.000 DE. Is there a way to do a DE where all rundles and all players have an equal chance of scoring/equal distribution of scores? If not -- if defensive stats have to favor some rundles over others -- I wouldn't mind such stats (whether DE or a new separate block stat) favoring the middle rundles where the average get rate is closer to 50% -- which means that more defensive decisions have to be made over the course of the season -- over the top and bottom.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how any of this gives any advantage to people who face 0(0) or 9(6) opponents. It's a rate stat. So people who face the 0-right or 6-right opponents will have smaller sample sizes, and thus higher variability, but it should neither help nor hurt their rates.

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