Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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John Boy
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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by John Boy »

alietr wrote:
I said Benedict Arnold instantly and pressed skip on the DVR. Whoops! I knew there was something wrong with that because I thought he died in England, but I wasn't coming up with anyone else.

?
I wonder if it is widely known how Arnold and Andre died. I thought this was the hugest neg bait clue in a long time and I went for the same wrong answer as the three contestants.

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billiej
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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by billiej »

dhkendall wrote:
I don't mind knowing scores beforehand (but that's just me, I don't even mind knowing who wins beforehand - but I do care about getting spoiled on a correct response - but I know I'm in the minority here)
You have company in this regard - I watch more for the clues than to see who wins (although big winners like the current champ are exciting!).

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by oddsox »

Forgot to mention in my earlier post that I knew Benedict Arnold was never executed, so had to go with Nathan Hale as the only execution-ee in the Revolutionary War that I knew of.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by alietr »

It's a shame Carlo hasn't made the transition to here, but I wonder if the producers go to the writers and say, "We're doing a tie-in with the Young and the Restless" and the writers all go "Auuuuuuggggghhhh!" and begin rending their garments.

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jpahk
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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by jpahk »

thejeopardyfan wrote:BTW, Joon: Do you "study" to improve your crossword-puzzling time, and if so, do you think that studying has helped you on the show? (I'm talking rivers and other things that come up a lot in puzzles.) Has just solving that many puzzles helped?
it's mostly just solving tons and tons of puzzles. it's impossible to know what to study unless you do enough crosswords. i'm pretty good on bodies of water, but i never would've known all the 4-letter european rivers that show up only in puzzles (AARE, ELBE, OUSE, ORNE, YSER, AIRE, ODER, EDER, etc.; i'm not counting EBRO and ARNO because they're actually somewhat famous) except that i've seen them all in previous crosswords. if you're absolutely determined to be one of the fastest solvers on the planet, you could keep a record of clues and answers that come up that you don't know. putting stuff in there helps to cement new facts in your brain, even if (as in my case) you're too lazy to ever go back over it.

but the biggest benefit of solving so many puzzles is not the information content, but the training on general skills like pattern recognition and grid navigation. the fastest solvers can fill in an easy puzzle faster than most people could while looking at the answer grid. i'm not exaggerating. but that kind of speed takes a lot of training and muscle memory.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by Volante »

MarkBarrett wrote: As someone who mixed up Arnold and Andre on the show (only cost me 1600 game money/about $8000 real money and not the game) I can't fault the players for going 0/3 on the solve. At home with full thinking time it was not going to be missed. We've heard about Smith and Cornwallis. Did anyone try Nathan Hale? Any other possibles?
Another vote for Hale here. I knew 100% it wasn't Arnold (he died naturally in 1801, figure out how that one got stuck in long term memory...). I was also 100% certain it wasn't Hale (cause...why would they move him to a British church?) but if I'm getting it wrong I'm at least getting part of the clue right.
dhkendall wrote: What I didn't like about the Y&R category wasn't as much the speed of the reading, but the utter suckity of the acting! And they make their living acting??

My second thing I didn't like about it was the convoluted way the clues were constructed. (Those lines woudln't even be uttered in a soap opera universe, never mind the real one). Third was how they stopped "acting" to each other and turned, almost eerily, to the camera, to deliver the clue part of their lines. Both of these were even more reviled than the pace.
Someone here watches them and I'm occasionally inundated with scenes from them. Sounded dead on to me. *shrug*
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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

SkoolRN wrote:Insatget on FJ, probably because his trial took place a couple of miles from where I live and the tavern where he was held prisoner is one of my favorite places for Sunday brunch. Also the spot where he and Arnold exchanged the plans is a local kayak launch.
Good for you! It missed being a rare quintuple stumper--all three contestants plus the two of us on the couch--because Mrs Penguin guessed correctly. She wasn't sure, but she knew it couldn't be Benedict Arnold (my guess along with the contestants). She said he died later--19th century, she thought. Looking it up, I see Arnold died in 1801, so good if close call there. She said "It must be Major André, his British collaborator". The name didn't ring any bells for me.

She says she knew it because of a children's book she'd read--A Spy in Old West Point. Nice get.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

MDCSWildcats86 wrote:I was expecting TENNESSEE WILLIAMS to be people from Tennessee with first/last name "William"


At clue 0 on FJ. Guessed "Who was Cornwallis?"
That would have been a great one-two category. TENNESSEE WILLIAMS, the playwright, for Single, and TENNESSEE "WILLIAM"S, the category you describe, for Double.

I thought about Cornwallis once my wife informed me that Benedict Arnold was wrong. But it seemed odd to me that they would execute someone who was surrendering.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

jeff6286 wrote:Apparently I was all alone in somewhat enjoying the soap opera category, at least as a one-time thing. It was different, and it was humorous seeing the actors somewhat speaking in character, then suddenly turning toward the camera to give their clues. I found it far more interesting than the usual practice of whatever celebrities (i.e. Oprah) reading regular clues for no apparent reason. Certainly the fact that they still managed to get through all 60 clues played some part in my positive outlook on the category. They blew through the final category at a lightning-like pace, which I was grateful for, as I knew all 5 song titles. That may have been the fastest category in the history of Jeopardy!, although I doubt if anyone has ever made it a practice to watch the show with a stopwatch in hand.
Count me as another who kind of liked the soap opera category. I agree it should be a one-time thing, or quite rare anyway. I'm with you in finding it more entertaining than when regular celebrities (i.e. Clinton (either one)) read clues. When the regular celebrities sound stilted or mannered, it's just distracting. When soap opera characters sound that way, it's part of the fun.

I think the main thing I didn't like about the category was that the clues took so long. If I'd known ahead of time that the board would get completed, I would have relaxed and enjoyed the ride.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

MarkBarrett wrote:As someone who mixed up Arnold and Andre on the show (only cost me 1600 game money/about $8000 real money and not the game)
That's an intriguing statement. How did you make that calculation?

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

Roadgeek Adam wrote:Up to 8th all time. I need to mention though. In the time since Brian Weikle's run in 2003, he's always been in the Top 10 in winnings all time. Joon, you have demoted him out of the Top 10 to 11th. Congrats. :)

As for the Daily Double, ballsy wager in such an easy category. Paid off wisely, considering Hannah was right behind you most of the game. Due to his silence at the beginning I was a bit worried that Jared wouldn't fare well by the end. However, he showed he was a worthy competitor.
Yes indeed. Kudos, Joon.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

StevenH wrote: I am glad that I knew The Rose Tattoo but I thought that it was a wicked tough clue, even for $2000. I remember a factoid in quiz bowl coming up about it that mentioned that it is Williams' only play with a happy ending.
When the correct response came up, I had a feeling of Déjà vu. I knew this wasn't the first time I'd been caught short by not knowing that title. Looks like The Rose Tattoo has come up 8 times in the archived games, including once a year since 2007.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by chuck5982 »

With six wins and $169,900, Joon Pahk moves into third place in the ToC standings.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by reddpen »

Worst. Category. Ever. By the time they finished, I was older and restless and stockpiling adjectives. Amazing the board got cleared. Props to all three contestants for steering around it and darting through the others.

Loved the audience gasp on the TDD, Joon, but at this point I wasn't surprised either that you went for it or that you nailed it.

As for FJ, another Arnold here. It didn't feel quite right, but André wasn't coming to me in time--sorry, OSC.

StevenH, I agree: Joon goes in the Gold group. Can hardly wait to handicap this year's ToC. My anticipation has never been greater.
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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by boson »

Congrats again Joon!

As a fellow physicist, I realize that a Jeopardy math category is easy and worth using as a chance to bet big on a DD. However, math terminology is not as cut-and-dried as arithmetic. I don't know if I would have had the guts to do a true DD on a bottom row math terminology clue, even though I have very good (at the J! level) math knowledge. I've seen too many vague or poorly written science clues, or have the word stuck on the tip of my tongue and not come out. I'm glad you were more confident than I would have been, and enjoy on the big payoff!

I guessed Cornwallis at home, but toyed with Arnold. I had never heard of Andre... have read the Wiki now, and I'm ready for next time.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by debramc »

dhkendall wrote: I don't mind knowing scores beforehand (but that's just me, I don't even mind knowing who wins beforehand - but I do care about getting spoiled on a correct response - but I know I'm in the minority here), but I think it's more easily knowing if the champ of today will be there later in the week by seeing who is in the champion's slot. TPTB were really concerned about letting Ken's loss slip out so I believe the trailer that week didn't give it away. Why can't they use that logic for everyone?
I'm with you on that.

I never heard of Andre either. It seems like most here who did know him learned it in a manner other than history class. Does anyone remember it from class?

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by pinkfreud »

I knew "The Rose Tattoo" only because it was parodied in Mad in the 1950s. I was a huge Mad fan in those days, and I picked up a lot of trivia that has stuck in my mind like gum under a theater seat. The Mad tagline was something like "He sat on a ballpoint pen and... HE ROSE TATTOOED."

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by seaborgium »

opusthepenguin wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:As someone who mixed up Arnold and Andre on the show (only cost me 1600 game money/about $8000 real money and not the game)
That's an intriguing statement. How did you make that calculation?
If he clams (rather than replacing Arnold with Andre, which would be a $3,200 difference), he hits the final DD with a $1,400 lead. There's still one clue unrevealed at that point, for $2,000, so I assume he bets more than $600 but less than $1,400, so as to still have the lead if he's wrong, and guarantee himself the lead in FJ if he's right. He's wrong, that $2,000 clue is never revealed, and he has to guard against second place's $12,400. Only Mark would get FJ right, so he would have bumped himself up to at least $24,800.

As it was, he hit that last DD $200 behind first place. He wagered $2,300, got it wrong, and made $16,000 guarding against third place's $8,000.

(If you want, I can also tell you how two occasions of being beaten on the buzzer in the last clue before FJ have cost me a total of $215,601!)

I got Andre last night. I didn't know enough about Benedict Arnold to be totally sure it wasn't him, but he just didn't feel right to me. As StevenH did, I remembered Andre's name from the UToC, was sure he was executed, and was pretty sure he was working for the British the whole time. Here's how little I actually knew: when Alex told Jared that the man in question negotiated with Benedict Arnold, I still wasn't sure I was right.

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by heelsrule1988 »

That Young and Restless category... oh dear. Totally unlike Jeopardy to do something so lame. :roll:

And of course... JOOOOOOOOOOON!!! :D

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Re: Monday, October 10, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by whoisalexjacob »

I'm impressed at the people who came up with Andre, as my instinct was that 99 out of 100 contestants would miss this one. (I knew the name John Andre, but my surface-level knowledge didn't have anything in the clue disallowing Arnold). Hey, why not a FJ/tough clues poll in this thread? I often forget about the separate poll thread, and it would be kinda cool to be able to look at the current post and see how everyone did on FJ rather than having to wait for the end of the week.

With a TOC slot locked up and a physics background, the true DD had to be a no-brainer (and how lucky to get 2 math DDs in his run! how many math DD's does the show average per season? Less than 0.5?). I kinda disagree with whoever said it could be a tricky question or an obscure term. Very unlikely IMO.

Joon has been awesome and assuming he's in the next TOC, I wonder if he will suffer from having less time to study than the other guys. On the other hand, he'll also be more J!-fresh. Hmm.

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