Monday, May 9, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[cosmos]

Clue in Current Events: A letter of Feb. 23, 2016 let Obama know, "This committee will not hold hearings" until Jan. 20, 2017

Nitpicking here. I knew they were looking for the name of the committee. But by putting "This committee" as part of a quote from a letter they wrote, it doesn't seem like standard J! format for a clue. If you read it like a conventional clue it's not asking for anything.

[skullturf]

Speaking of world capitals, I never knew that Dhaka could be pronounced with an initial "T" sound.

Perhaps Kaberi, being Bong, pronounced it the authentic Bengali way! I think she did it tongue-in-cheek, knowing it was going to throw the judges into a minor tizzy.

Yeah, I was going to mention that I'm a bit of a language nerd, and although I don't speak any of the languages of India and Bangladesh (except for English), I know that several of those languages make a distinction between aspirated and unaspirated consonants that most English speakers are unaware of. So it's entirely possible that an authentic Bengali pronunciation of "Dhaka" is different from what English speakers are used to.

[John Boy]

Is there some reason we should know Norwegian political parties without the slightest bit of a hint?

Instaget FJ.

The 'Iron Lady' thing was a hint.

If by "Norwegian" they meant "British," so that "Iron Lady" was a Thatcher reference, I'd say "Iron Lady" was a hint. Otherwise I was totally as clueless as Econgater (and I suppose others) were.

[John Boy]

It was unfair they had a lion category in a game where one player spoke cat.

They're entirely different dialects.

Lions can't even purr

Actually they can. They're just so cool, they know they can choose not to, and no one will take them to task for it.

[John Boy]

I would have been alarmed to face that second-round DD in Mythology. Of all the categories that I routinely see on the show, I believe Greek Mythology has always been my Achilles elbow.

[MitchO]

I would have been alarmed to face that second-round DD in Mythology. Of all the categories that I routinely see on the show, I believe Greek Mythology has always been my Achilles elbow.

[Volante]

Is there some reason we should know Norwegian political parties without the slightest bit of a hint?

Instaget FJ.

The 'Iron Lady' thing was a hint.

If by "Norwegian" they meant "British," so that "Iron Lady" was a Thatcher reference, I'd say "Iron Lady" was a hint. Otherwise I was totally as clueless as Econgater (and I suppose others) were.

It was enough for me to pull the trigger. Seemed a straightforward TOM: She's Norway's Thatcher, ergo conservative.

[dhkendall]

NHO Hobson's choice, though I feel like I should have. Also NHO Styx as a mythological being, but I WAGged it since I had nothing better for mythology + river.

I also had never heard of it, and proverbs/sayings are something that I usually know. I've got trite covered! And I never would have gotten Styx, though of course, I know the river and the rock band.

And then, roughly a half-hour after I post that, I see this article in my Facebook feed: Trump or Clinton -- a Hobson's Choice? The Baader-Meinhof phenomenon is alive and well.

Similar to the G.I. Bill, it's not like "Hobson's Choice" hasn't come up before, and shouldn't have been familiar to people who've been watching the show since at least 2013:

http://www.j-archive.com/search.php?sea ... mit=Search

ETA: Here's a request to MarkBarrett to poll "Hobson's Choice."

You just *want* me to score a goose egg on Mark's poll, don't you? (NHO (or, I suppose, can't remember HO) Hobson's Choice, thought Sophie's Choice but can't remember if I rang in with it or not)

[jsterlacci]

Is there some reason we should know Norwegian political parties without the slightest bit of a hint?

Instaget FJ.

The 'Iron Lady' thing was a hint.

If by "Norwegian" they meant "British," so that "Iron Lady" was a Thatcher reference, I'd say "Iron Lady" was a hint. Otherwise I was totally as clueless as Econgater (and I suppose others) were.

It was enough for me to pull the trigger. Seemed a straightforward TOM: She's Norway's Thatcher, ergo conservative.

Exactly. That said, had that clue come up in my game, I'm not sure I would have buzzed in and risked it.

[Silverfox]

FJ-It came to me instantly. I used the GI Bill for college and a home purchase.
Thank you Uncle Sam!

[mxc_takeshi]

36 right.

Smithsonian (4), Author (2), Events (4), Bones (3), Horn (2), Silent K (5)
World (4), "A" "B" (4), Lion (2), Myth (0), Asian Capitals (5), Possessive (1)

Lach Trash: Conservative, Uzbekistan

Instaget FJ.

[BigDaddyMatty]

(NHO (or, I suppose, can't remember HO) Hobson's Choice, thought Sophie's Choice but can't remember if I rang in with it or not)

It was a DD, so you "rang in" whether you wanted to or not.

[kaberi]

Kaberi's wager and get on that 3rd Daily Double was at a Michael Jordan level of clutch performance. I fully expected her to settle with the lead she already had, but instead she just locked out Nicole and crushed Peter. Color me impressed.

Thanks, skrambler. That second wager was not as big of a deal for me. I was pretty comfortable with the category, since it was language and I'm a language person. And it was a mid-level clue, so I had a high degree of confidence. And I figured, even if I lost, I was going to leave myself with enough money to not embarrass myself too much. It all worked out better than I could have expected.

Also, for what it's worth, I find "Hobson's choice" to be one of those language things that I've only encountered in books and articles about "origins of odd phrases" or "weird language things". I don't recall ever having seen or heard anyone use that phrase in conversation or text.

[kaberi]

[quote="hbomb1947"]I liked the acoustics in the Constitution Hall.


Speaking of world capitals, I never knew that Dhaka could be pronounced with an initial "T" sound.

So, in a nutshell...I wasn't saying it with an initial T sound. In Bengali, the word starts with a "dh" sound, which is why the old spelling of Dacca, which reflected English mispronunciation, has been modified to Dhaka. The "dh" sound doesn't exist in English, so English speakers tend to hear it as a "T" sound. But the "Dh" sound uses your vocal cords (linguists call it a "voiced" consonant) and the "T" sound doesn't. My family is from Bengal, and I speak Bengali, so I said it the way it's supposed to be said. I don't think I could have mispronounced it even if they had asked me to.

[kaberi]

I didn't watch the show today since I saw it live, but yes, Dhaka caused the long stoppage. Instaget FJ, and it was cool to see Mrs. Biden.

That was the one. I thought it was close to a half-hour, but it was probably shorter than that. Hence why there was applause after that response.

Thanks, alietr, for giving me a good opening to provide the inside scoop. Here's what happened during the break, at least, from my perspective.


During my semifinal game, a question is asked about the capital of Bangladesh. After Pete buzzes in and gives an incorrect answer, I buzz in and say, "What is Dhaka?" using the correct Bengali pronunciation with the "dh" sound. Alex asks me to repeat myself and I do. Alex looks over at the judges, and after a brief moment, they give him the thumbs down. Alex says, "I'm sorry, the correct answer is Dacca with a D".

(At this point, I feel I need to point out that this story is much easier to tell in person, where someone can hear my pronunciation. But I will carry on the best I can in text.)

So, before I have a chance to think to myself, "Wait...what?", the director says, "OK, we're stopping." For about five minutes, no one knows quite what's going on. The contestants are all standing there, and I'm thinking, "I suppose they're reviewing what I said." At one point, Maggie, comes up to us and says, "What happened?" to which I respond simply, "Dhaka. D-h-a-k-a, Dhaka." After five minutes, someone says "They're researching." but we continue to stand there waiting. Meanwhile Glenn, who has been very kindly bringing me a chair to sit in during the commercial breaks, offers multiple times to bring me a chair while I'm waiting, but I politely refuse. It occurs to me that sitting down at this juncture would be some kind of signal of surrender. I am literally standing up for myself and my background.

Another ten minutes goes by.

Finally I am approached at my podium by Harry Friedman and the attorney lady.
HF: We've looked at a number of sources that give us a few different responses, but none of them start with a T. The T is for the currency.
(I think, "Aha. They are mishearing what I said because English has no "dh" sound. In the same way that they say "Daka" because they can't pronounce "dh", they hear me saying "Thaka" because they can't identify the "dh" sound when they hear it.)
Me: But I didn't say T. I said "Dhaka" with a "dh" sound. English speakers don't recognize it because they don't have that sound in English. BuI t my family is from that part of the world and I speak the language and I assure you that I know how it's pronounced.
HF: Well, we are an English program and we go out to an English speaking audience, so...
(I think, "Wait, is he suggesting that I can only get credit by mispronouncing words in an English way rather than saying them correctly? That seems fundamentally wrong, almost racist. I should raise a firm objection. But...in the paperwork you sign before you go on the show, it says very clearly, "Producers' decisions are final." So I'm not going to win this argument.
Me: (after about a minute of silence while I debated what to say) I guess I can't do anything about it.
I was very upset, but what could I do? The producer walked back to his seat, and I resigned myself to having lost the battle. They started preparing to continue taping.
"In 5...4...3..." All of a sudden we stopped again. More silence. More standing around.

Another 5 minutes go by.

Mr. Friedman and the attorney lady come back to my podium. HF says, "We have news for you. We found sources that confirm what you said. So we're going to give you credit for answering the question correctly." I said, "Thank you, I appreciate that." Then they do what's called a "hot edit", where they run the tape back to the moment where they're going to edit, and Alex rerecords a new response over what he said before. And we continue with the show.

And now you know....the rest of the story.

[hbomb1947]

Speaking of world capitals, I never knew that Dhaka could be pronounced with an initial "T" sound.

So, in a nutshell...I wasn't saying it with an initial T sound. In Bengali, the word starts with a "dh" sound, which is why the old spelling of Dacca, which reflected English mispronunciation, has been modified to Dhaka. The "dh" sound doesn't exist in English, so English speakers tend to hear it as a "T" sound. But the "Dh" sound uses your vocal cords (linguists call it a "voiced" consonant) and the "T" sound doesn't. My family is from Bengal, and I speak Bengali, so I said it the way it's supposed to be said. I don't think I could have mispronounced it even if they had asked me to.

Thanks for the explanation, Kaberi, and props again for a well-played game. I look forward to watching you in the finals!

[kaberi]

NHO Hobson's choice, though I feel like I should have. Also NHO Styx as a mythological being, but I WAGged it since I had nothing better for mythology + river.

I also had never heard of it, and proverbs/sayings are something that I usually know. I've got trite covered! And I never would have gotten Styx, though of course, I know the river and the rock band.

I covered "Hobson's choice" in another post, but I just thought I would mention that the whole Styx thing...Styx was the first thing that occurred to me, for the same reason as BigDaddyMatty had it, but the difficulty level of the clue had me second guessing myself. Styx? Charon? Wait, are there other Greek mythological rivers that would qualify? But in the end, I had to go back to my first instinct. Thank goodness.

[opusthepenguin]

Me: But I didn't say T. I said "Dhaka" with a "dh" sound. English speakers don't recognize it because they don't have that sound in English. BuI t my family is from that part of the world and I speak the language and I assure you that I know how it's pronounced.
HF: Well, we are an English program and we go out to an English speaking audience, so...

https://youtu.be/9lXmvunn7XI

[floridagator]

When it comes to native city pronunciations, we don't have to go far beyond our own borders. Canadians pronounce the name of their second largest city MUN-tree-all, while Americans say MON-tree-all. (The French, of course, call it MOAN-ree-all, except for Brett Favre, but that's another story.) Canadians pronounce the name of their largest city as if it were spelled Turronno. Americans not only overpronounce the initial Tor but also vocalize what Canadians regard as a silent t near the end. The second largest city in Quebec, the Quebecois just call Quebec (and seem to know what they're talking about), while English speakers call it Quebec City.

Then of course, there are Paris/Paree, Mexico/Mayhico, and the rest.

And don't get me started on New Orlins.

[CailinGaoilge]

Thank you for the explanation, Kaberi, and well done for standing up for yourself! (I do occasionally wonder what would happen were I on the show and a British or Irish placename whose pronunciation Americans - from my perspective - murder came up. ) Good to know that they will research and verify.

As for Hobson's choice, it may be a cultural thing as I am very familiar with the expression - instaget for me - and have heard it used in speech in the UK, though not with huge frequency.