Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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naurae29
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by naurae29 »

IronNeck wrote:
skullturf wrote:
IronNeck wrote:I did. I even provided further reading for those wishing to learn about it, which you didn't bother doing.

Now, it's good to be skeptical about my (or anyone's) claims, but it makes no sense to make counterarguments on a subject you clearly don't know. Especially since you could have confirmed or debunked my claims in less than a minute on Wikipedia.

For instance, be so kind as to read the first line of the following article;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alekhine%27s_Defence
The first line of that article describes Alekhine's Defence as "an opening", but that doesn't mean that it's incorrect to call it "a strategy".
Read my edit above. Search for "strategy" on that page and tell me where you find it? Also, tell me if that subsection includes "opening" or not?

Your counterargument was an "opening is a type of strategy"! When it was pointed out that no, "chess strategy" has a very distinct, separate meaning from "chess opening", you continue on, unabated. On a subject you clearly don't know.

Are you a lawyer, by chance?
No, *I'm* the lawyer. The Wikipedia article on "chess strategy" - which you cited as an authority on the matter - has a subsection on "chess openings." If Wikipedia is prepared to discuss openings (including defences) as part of chess strategy, Jeopardy! should accept "chess strategy" as an accurate (if broad) description of a particular opening.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by brick »

skullturf wrote:
IronNeck wrote:Your counterargument was an "opening is a type of strategy"! When it was pointed out that no, "chess strategy" has a very distinct, separate meaning from "chess opening", you continue on, unabated. On a subject you clearly don't know.

Are you a lawyer, by chance?
The links you posted are consistent with the term "strategy" being a very broad term.

Your personal accusations about other people's level of knowledge is out of place.
But consistent.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck »

skullturf wrote:
IronNeck wrote:Your counterargument was an "opening is a type of strategy"! When it was pointed out that no, "chess strategy" has a very distinct, separate meaning from "chess opening", you continue on, unabated. On a subject you clearly don't know.

Are you a lawyer, by chance?
The links you posted are consistent with the term "strategy" being a very broad term.
A very broad term that is entirely distinct from the term "chess opening".

Did you do what I asked? Did you search for use of the word "strategy" on the page for Alekhine Defence? Did you notice how, at the bottom of the Wikipedia, page, "Strategy" and "Openings" are two entirely separate categories with no overlap? I've even attached a screenshot to help you out.

By your reasoning, perhaps the show should have accepted "Chess Endgames", "Chess clubs", and "Cheating in Chess", too?
skullturf wrote: Your personal accusations about other people's level of knowledge is out of place.
What would your reaction be to someone aggressively arguing that a tank is a type of Air Force while refusing to listen to any and all reason and read basic links? Would you think they were an expert on military matters?
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck »

naurae29 wrote: No, *I'm* the lawyer. The Wikipedia article on "chess strategy" - which you cited as an authority on the matter - has a subsection on "chess openings." If Wikipedia is prepared to discuss openings (including defences) as part of chess strategy, Jeopardy! should accept "chess strategy" as an accurate (if broad) description of a particular opening.
There is a subsection for chess strategy in the opening, as well as in the middlegame, and in the endgame. All are distinct phases of the chess game, in the same way the Tudor period is different than the Windsor period.

It's the same way that tanks are used in a regiment, although a tank is not itself a regiment.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

IronNeck wrote:
skullturf wrote:
IronNeck wrote:Your counterargument was an "opening is a type of strategy"! When it was pointed out that no, "chess strategy" has a very distinct, separate meaning from "chess opening", you continue on, unabated. On a subject you clearly don't know.

Are you a lawyer, by chance?
The links you posted are consistent with the term "strategy" being a very broad term.
A very broad term that is entirely distinct from the term "chess opening".
Strategy. Noun
a : a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem
b : the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal

Chess opening.
A chess opening is the group of initial moves of a chess game. Recognized sequences of initial moves are referred to as openings by White, or defenses by Black, but opening is also used as the general term.

A chess opening is a strategy.

I'd literally hate to see your reaction to someone causally using the word 'theory'...
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck »

Volante wrote:
IronNeck wrote:
skullturf wrote:
IronNeck wrote:Your counterargument was an "opening is a type of strategy"! When it was pointed out that no, "chess strategy" has a very distinct, separate meaning from "chess opening", you continue on, unabated. On a subject you clearly don't know.

Are you a lawyer, by chance?
The links you posted are consistent with the term "strategy" being a very broad term.
A very broad term that is entirely distinct from the term "chess opening".
Strategy. Noun
a : a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem
b : the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal

Chess opening.
A chess opening is the group of initial moves of a chess game. Recognized sequences of initial moves are referred to as openings by White, or defenses by Black, but opening is also used as the general term.

A chess opening is a strategy.
No, it's not. Even cherry-pecking the normal definition of "strategy", which is rather different than a "chess strategy", in no way supports your conclusion.

I've already linked to a description of "Alekhine Defense" that mentions "opening" in the first line but contains the word "strategy" nowhere, and pointed out that "Chess Openings" and "Chess Strategy" are distinct categories with no overlap on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

Incidentally, a strategy is NOT a series of movies, whereas an opening IS. That's as simple an explanation as I can give.

If you insist on believing otherwise, well, I guess that's up to you.
Volante wrote: I'd literally hate to see your reaction to someone causally using the word 'theory'...
If they used "theory" within the context of a scientific discussion the way it's used in casual discussion (an "educated guess"), then yes, it would be wrong.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by skrambler »

Not to distract from the very fascinating pedantry going on here, but I'd just like to bring attention to my favourite French phrase "l'esprit de l'escalier", which translates roughly to "staircase wit", or the phenomenon of thinking of the perfect reply much too late to use it (like when you are in the staircase after leaving the conversation).

This did not at all help me at all in final because (appropriately) I only came up with the correct response after the time ran out.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by grindcore »

I have a grocery store strategy for when I first walk through the door - I go straight for the French bread, right by the pastry table.
I have a Jeopardy! watching strategy for when I watch the show on DVR - I hit the fast forward 30sec button twice right after I hit play, and it brings me straight to the contestant intros.
I have a chess strategy for playing as black - I use the what's-its-face defense.

+1 here for team skullturf
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by SBurrus »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Image
I have GOT to stop deleting episodes from the DVR before all the credits stop rolling. On the station that broadcasts Jeopardy in our market, they often don't show all of the credits and cut in for a newsbreak before Prime Time programming starts.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett »

SBurrus wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:
Image
I have GOT to stop deleting episodes from the DVR before all the credits stop rolling. On the station that broadcasts Jeopardy in our market, they often don't show all of the credits and cut in for a newsbreak before Prime Time programming starts.
Another thing I noticed from the screenshot I posted was the coil cord for Alex's ear-thingy. I can't remember the Hollywood techie term for it, but how long has Alex been using it? From my different times in the studio I don't recall seeing cue cards or teleprompter work either.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by chmmr »

Speaking of bad strategy, how about betting $5000 in a category in which you are shaky?
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OSXpert »

I play a lot of chess, teach a chess club, and was a tournament player for a short while. I said "chess opening" when the clue was revealed... and I 100% agree that "chess strategy" is fine as a response. Similarly, if he had said "chess tactic" I would be fine with that, even though "tactics" is something unrelated to opening theory. This is because words can have more than one meaning, and one of the meanings fits just fine.

I did escalier --> staircase --> nude descending staircase, and couldn't remember the name, so I said "Max Ernst" even though he is clearly not French. The NYT crossword puzzle had a good tribute to that painting fairly recently so I was a little bummed I missed this. I swept the TV show category though, so my appreciation of low art is still intact.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by pauerpoint »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Volante wrote:
MarkBarrett wrote:I wrote Marcel Duchamps and used a finger to cover and uncover the "s" trying to see if I could recall the correct spelling of the last name. I did it over again with both looking right and both looking wrong to me. As time ended I was still undecided and never made it Duchamp.
I'd accept Duchamps. French tends to drop the 's' on the end.
Seconded. I think it would fly.
It probably would, but since pedantry is the order of the day, I'll point out that if "champs" (fields) were plural, the (grammatically correct) name would be "Deschamps" (of the fields), not "Duchamps".

I said "chess move" for Alekhin defense and gave myself credit.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by pauerpoint »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Another YouTube moment was lost with No.2 leading to the pencil skirt and not the poop skirt. :)
I totally went there. It even rhymes with hoop skirt! We'll never know if I would have rung in to say it.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck »

pauerpoint wrote:
I said "chess move" for Alekhin defense and gave myself credit.
Technically correct, since the Alekhine Defense is achieved with black's very first move. (1. e4 Nf6)

As for "P in Fashion", I only got "pixie". On the flip side, both my girlfriend and another girl who works as a fashion model both got the first 4 instantly when I quizzed them.

I can't figure out if that's more a reflection of how little I know about fashion, them being knowledgeable in the category, or both.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by doihavetoreally »

:roll: on strategy vs. opening discussion.

IMO For J, any word with "chess" would work - chess strategy, tactic, move, etc.
Source: watching enough J!
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by John Boy »

Leander wrote:
econgator wrote:I even remembered Nude Descending a Staircase, but couldn't think who did it, so I fell back to Escher.
I made the connection to the right painting too, but for some reason thought Picasso painted it.
I don't know more than about three words of French, and two of those are Charles DeGaulle. But "escalier" just led me (linguistically) to "escalator," then to "stairs." "Staircase" came immediately afterword, and another nanosecond led to "Nude Descending a Staircase."

The tricky part, after all that, was the final connection. Who the heck did it? Picasso? No, but one of his contemporaries. Mondrian? No, get serious...wrong style altogether.

Took every bit of the 30 seconds to get to Duchamp, but I managed. What's the opposite of Instaget?

I can't say this was a terribly competitive game, as I got more in Lach Trash ($7,000) than Riley's entire score and almost as much as Dan's Buzzy has had the benefit of several games like this, I think, with, um, not the strongest competition. But give him credit, he had as much going into FJ as his two opponents plus my Lach Trash combined. He doesn't need to be a juggernaut every day as long as he keeps winning like this.

Many congrats on another fine win, and making it into the Top Twenty All-time on the list of greatest money winners in regular season J!

PS once again it helps to be "of a certain age," to get the correct answers to clues that stumped the youngsters: Burt Young, Loretta Young, horse opera, etc.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by John Boy »

Leander wrote:
econgator wrote:I even remembered Nude Descending a Staircase, but couldn't think who did it, so I fell back to Escher.
I made the connection to the right painting too, but for some reason thought Picasso painted it.
I don't know more than about three words of French, and two of those are Charles DeGaulle. But "escalier" just led me (linguistically) to "escalator," then to "stairs." "Staircase" came immediately afterword, and another nanosecond led to "Nude Descending a Staircase."

The tricky part, after all that, was the final connection. Who the heck did it? Picasso? No, but one of his contemporaries. Mondrian? No, get serious...wrong style altogether.

Took every bit of the 30 seconds to get to Duchamp, but I managed. What's the opposite of Instaget?

I can't say this was a terribly competitive game, as I got more in Lach Trash ($7,000) than Riley's entire score and almost as much as Dan's Buzzy has had the benefit of several games like this, I think, with, um, not the strongest competition. But give him credit, he had as much going into FJ as his two opponents plus my Lach Trash combined. He doesn't need to be a juggernaut every day as long as he keeps winning like this.

Many congrats on another fine win, and making it into the Top Twenty All-time on the list of greatest money winners in regular season J!

PS once again it helps to be "of a certain age," to get the correct answers to clues that stumped the youngsters: Burt Young, Loretta Young, horse opera, etc.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Linear Gnome »

John Boy wrote:PS once again it helps to be "of a certain age," to get the correct answers to clues that stumped the youngsters: Burt Young, Loretta Young, horse opera, etc.
I got horse opera but not Burt Young (no clue, would have guessed Gig Young on a DD) nor Loretta Young (probably should have had that one).

Art is one of those categories for which the only reason I know anything whatsoever is watching game shows and attending quiz bowl practices, so I was very proud of myself for getting Duchamp about 15 seconds in.
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Re: Thursday, May 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett »

OSXpert wrote: The NYT crossword puzzle had a good tribute to that painting fairly recently so I was a little bummed I missed this. I swept the TV show category though, so my appreciation of low art is still intact.
The NYT puzzle was 3/25/15: http://rexwordpuzzle.blogspot.com/2015/ ... -food.html

It added the "No. 2" to complete the title of the painting making the solver complete a cross of REDNO2 & H2O.
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