TD 142: A Touch of Classical

[opusthepenguin]

Would you have accepted Bertold Brecht?

Nope. The Wikipedia entry that I said I would use for edge cases, does not list him.

[xxaaaxx]

Berlioz (5)

......

UNUSED ANSWERS
Bach
......
Beethoven

Why do I ever expect anything other than complete nonsense from these reveals?

[opusthepenguin]

3. HE'S GOT A FEVER, AND THE ONLY PRESCRIPTION IS ... A BIGGER ORCHESTRA - 34 possibilities
Gustav Mahler famously said, "The symphony must be like the world. It must embrace everything." He pursued that idea in part by writing symphonies for large orchestras, often including unusual instruments. Name one of the instruments that Mahler called for in at least one of his finished symphony scores.
- I will borrow MFalk's rule for a similar question in TD 22: "Instruments with the same name but different tuning (for instance, soprano kazoo and alto kazoo) are considered one instrument. Also, multiple parts for the same instrument--first kazoo and second kazoo--are considered one instrument."

Well, it sheeped up ok in the end. For the longest time, every reply was a singleton. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have limited the possibilities--maybe to percussion, or to instruments that start with "t".

Oh, and welcome to the land of positive scores, RandyG! After three rounds and no drops, you finally have a point.



harp (3)
Turd Ferguson
Zee2
BigDaddyJ

human voice (3)
MarkBarrett
oddsox
cheezguyty

timpani (3)
ayeembored
econgator
HugoZ

violin (3)
Volante
hbomb1947
Bamaman

English horn (or cor anglais) (2)
Paucle
immaf

organ (2)
dhkendall
Samer

(MORE!) cowbell (1)
Spaceman Spiff

bass drum (1)
goforthetie

celesta (1)
RandyG

cello (or violoncello) (1)
xxaaaxx

flute (1)
billiej

glockenspiel (1)
Rackme32

hammer (1)
lasercats

post horn (1)
Woof

triangle (1)
Peggles

trumpet (1)
Vanya

viola (1)
barandall800

DROP
debramc
dmleach

INCORRECT ANSWERS (8)
piano (hard to believe, considering all the correct answers, I know.) - gamawire

UNUSED ANSWERS
bassoon (incl contrabassoon aka double bassoon)
clarinet
cymbals
deep bells
deep untuned steel rods
guitar
harmonium
horn (or French horn)
mandolin
oboe
piccolo
sleigh bells
snare drum
string bass (or double bass)
tam-tam
tenorhorn
trombone
tuba
tubular bells
xylophone

STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 3
RandyG 1 (-1+1+1)
lasercats 2 (0+1+1)
Spaceman Spiff 4 (2+1+1)
dmleach 4 (1+3+0)
debramc 5 (2+3+0)
Samer 5 (2+1+2)
Woof 6 (0+5+1)
billiej 6 (2+3+1)
goforthetie 6 (1+4+1)
cheezguyty 6 (1+2+3)
xxaaaxx 6 (0+5+1)
MarkBarrett 7 (2+2+3)
Rackme32 7 (2+4+1)
econgator 7 (1+3+3)
dhkendall 7 (2+3+2)
barandall800 7 (2+4+1)
immaf 8 (2+4+2)
HugoZ 8 (2+3+3)
Paucle 9 (2+5+2)
Zee2 9 (2+4+3)
oddsox 9 (2+4+3)
hbomb1947 10 (2+5+3)
Volante 12 (6+3+3)
ayeembored 12 (6+3+3)
Vanya 12 (6+5+1)
BigDaddyJ 12 (6+3+3)
Bamaman 12 (6+3+3)
Peggles 15 (11+3+1)
Turd Ferguson 17 (11+3+3)
gamawire 18 (6+4+8)

[opusthepenguin]

4. THE PLURAL OF OPUS - 52 possibilities
Plenty of composers wrote an opera or two, but let's set them aside. Others were more prolific, but only a handful of their operas--5 or fewer--have remained in the basic repertoire. Let's rule them out as well. And let's also rule out Baroque operas, which seem like a different animal. That leaves perhaps 3 heavy hitters with more than 5 operas in the basic repertoire--Wagner, Verdi, and Puccini. Name an opera by one of them.
- I want composer AND opera name, please
- English translations of the opera name are acceptable
- The opera needs to have been completed by the composer. Wagner, for example, abandoned some early works without completing them.

You guys know a lot of operas! If I had it to do over again, I'd definitely limit the question to one of the three composers. And if I settled on Puccini, I wouldn't play that dirty trick. My apologies to the three of you who sheeped up with Turandot.

I'm not cut out to be an evil overlord, I'll tell you that. I thought I would laugh pitilessly when someone took that negbait. Instead, I just felt bad. But rules are rules, I guess. And Puccini died before completing Turandot's two final scenes--perhaps 10 to 20 minutes of music. Puccini's publisher commissioned Franco Alfano to complete the opera based on Puccini's sketches. Arturo Toscanini, who was to conduct the premiere, forced Alfano to rewrite his submission and follow Puccini's sketches with less embellisment. This reduced the completion's length by about 30 percent. Toscanini took the shorter version and made his own cuts. Alfano sarcastically suggested that he should resign his post as director of the Turin Conservatory and take composition lessons from Toscanini.

But Toscanini wasn't done making cuts. When the premiere day arrived, Toscanini conducted the opera only up to Puccini's last note. Then he laid down his baton. Turning to the audience, he said, "Here the opera ends, left incomplete by the death of the maestro." He never conducted Alfano's ending.

Toscanini's edited version of Alfano's completion is the one most commonly used today. To my ears, it is unsatisfactory. I can hear the exact moment where the music falls off a cliff. (And knowledge of the above facts did not prejudice my initial judgment. The first time I heard Turandot, I thought it was all Puccini. So I was quite puzzled when, right near the end, the music just stopped making sense to me.)

Anyway, sorry to you incorrect sheep. I'd be bitter if I were you.


Puccini - La Fanciulla del West (Girl of the Golden West) (2)
Spaceman Spiff
xxaaaxx

Puccini - Madama Butterfly (2)
debramc
Turd Ferguson

Verdi - La Forza del Destino (2)
lasercats
Samer

Wagner - Das Rheingold (The Rhinegold) (2)
oddsox
BigDaddyJ

Wagner - Die Walküre (The Valkyrie) (2)
ayeembored
dmleach

Wagner - Parsifal (2)
hbomb1947
RandyG

Puccini - Gianni Schicchi (1)
immaf

Puccini - La Rondine (1)
Zee2

Puccini - Manon Lescaut (1)
Paucle

Puccini - Suor Angelica (1)
cheezguyty

Verdi - Aida (1)
Peggles

Verdi - La Traviata (The Fallen Woman) (1)
MarkBarrett

Verdi - Rigoletto (1)
billiej

Wagner - Der Fliegende Holländer (The Flying Dutchman) (1)
Volante

Wagner - Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (The Mastersingers of Nuremberg) (1)
dhkendall

Wagner - Rienzi (1)
gamawire

Wagner - Siegfried (1)
HugoZ

Wagner - Tannhäuser (1)
Woof

Wagner - Tristan und Isolde (1)
goforthetie

DROP
econgator
Bamaman

INCORRECT ANSWERS (7)
Puccini - Turandot (Not completed) - barandall800, Vanya, Rackme32

UNUSED ANSWERS
Puccini - Edgar
Puccini - Il Tabarro
Puccini - La Bohème
Puccini - Le Villi
Puccini - Tosca
Verdi - Alzira
Verdi - Aroldo
Verdi - Attila
Verdi - Don Carlos
Verdi - Ernani
Verdi - Falstaff
Verdi - Giovanna d'Arco
Verdi - I Due Foscari
Verdi - I Lombardi alla Prima Crociata
Verdi - I Masnadieri
Verdi - Il Corsaro
Verdi - Il Trovatore (The Troubador)
Verdi - Jérusalem
Verdi - La Battaglia di Legnano
Verdi - Les Vêpres Siciliennes
Verdi - Luisa Miller
Verdi - Macbeth
Verdi - Nabucco
Verdi - Oberto
Verdi - Otello
Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
Verdi - Stiffelio
Verdi - Un Ballo in Maschera
Verdi - Un Giorno di Regno
Wagner - Das Liebesverbot (The Ban on Love)
Wagner - Die Feen (The Fairies)
Wagner - Götterdämmerung (Twilight of the Gods)
Wagner - Lohengrin


STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 4
RandyG 3 (-1+1+1+2)
lasercats 4 (0+1+1+2)
Spaceman Spiff 6 (2+1+1+2)
dmleach 6 (1+3+0+2)
debramc 7 (2+3+0+2)
Woof 7 (0+5+1+1)
econgator 7 (1+3+3+0)
billiej 7 (2+3+1+1)
goforthetie 7 (1+4+1+1)
Samer 7 (2+1+2+2)
cheezguyty 7 (1+2+3+1)
MarkBarrett 8 (2+2+3+1)
dhkendall 8 (2+3+2+1)
xxaaaxx 8 (0+5+1+2)
immaf 9 (2+4+2+1)
HugoZ 9 (2+3+3+1)
Paucle 10 (2+5+2+1)
Zee2 10 (2+4+3+1)
oddsox 11 (2+4+3+2)
hbomb1947 12 (2+5+3+2)
Bamaman 12 (6+3+3+0)
Volante 13 (6+3+3+1)
ayeembored 14 (6+3+3+2)
Rackme32 14 (2+4+1+7)
barandall800 14 (2+4+1+7)
BigDaddyJ 14 (6+3+3+2)
Peggles 16 (11+3+1+1)
gamawire 19 (6+4+8+1)
Vanya 19 (6+5+1+7)
Turd Ferguson 19 (11+3+3+2)

[barandall800]

Of all the operas I could have picked (well, maybe not THAT many operas... ), I had to go for the one the composer didn't finish. Figures...

[Vanya]

But rules are rules, I guess

It's your game and you can change them.

[opusthepenguin]

But rules are rules, I guess

It's your game and you can change them.

That's true, but in this case I won't. I have my own complicated and potentially neurotic reasoning behind that decision, I suppose.

By the way, you look ... different. I can't put my finger on it. Did you forget to shave?

[opusthepenguin]

5. SCHWARZENEGGER SAID HE'D MAKE THIS LIST SOMEDAY - more than 17 possibilities
If you say "Who is Bach?" to Alex, he'll probably tell you "Be More Specific". So be more specific. This time, first and even middle names matter. Or at least initials do. Name someone in the Bach Family, by blood or marriage, real or otherwise, who had a musical career. All Bachs with the same name will be lumped together.

Not a lot of choices here. Many of you picked up on the hint that the Bach in question could be "real or otherwise". A sheepish subset went with that answer choice. Fewer of you picked up on the hint that the person could be a Bach "by blood or marriage". Or at least it was fewer who both knew what to do with that hint and chose to do it. A few of you just knew some obscure Bachs.


P. D. Q. Bach (21st of Johann's 20 children) (6)
Volante
Woof
dmleach
barandall800
goforthetie
BigDaddyJ

Johann Christian Bach (son) (5)
Paucle
econgator
Spaceman Spiff
billiej
xxaaaxx

Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (son) (4)
MarkBarrett
debramc
Rackme32
HugoZ

Johann Sebastian Bach (The Man) (4)
ayeembored
gamawire
Turd Ferguson
Bamaman

Anna Magdalena Bach (2nd wife) (2)
lasercats
RandyG

Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (son) (1)
Vanya

Johann Nicolaus Bach (2nd cousin) (1)
Samer

Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (son) (1)
oddsox

DROP
Peggles
hbomb1947
dhkendall

INCORRECT ANSWERS (11)
Johannes Christian Emanuel Bach - immaf
Johann Friedemann Bach - Zee2
C.F. Bach - cheezguyty

UNUSED ANSWERS
Christoph Bach (grandfather)
Georg Christoph Bach (uncle)
Gottfried Heinrich Bach (son)
Heinrich Bach (great uncle)
Johann Ambrosius Bach (father)
Johann Bach (great uncle)
Johann Christoph Bach (1. uncle, 2. first cousin once removed)
Johann Michael Bach (1. first cousin once removed and JSB's father-in-law, 2. nephew)
Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach (grandson)


STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 5
RandyG 5 (-1+1+1+2+2)
lasercats 6 (0+1+1+2+2)
Samer 8 (2+1+2+2+1)
dhkendall 8 (2+3+2+1+0)
Spaceman Spiff 11 (2+1+1+2+5)
debramc 11 (2+3+0+2+4)
billiej 12 (2+3+1+1+5)
oddsox 12 (2+4+3+2+1)
dmleach 12 (1+3+0+2+6)
MarkBarrett 12 (2+2+3+1+4)
hbomb1947 12 (2+5+3+2+0)
econgator 12 (1+3+3+0+5)
HugoZ 13 (2+3+3+1+4)
goforthetie 13 (1+4+1+1+6)
Woof 13 (0+5+1+1+6)
xxaaaxx 13 (0+5+1+2+5)
Paucle 15 (2+5+2+1+5)
Peggles 16 (11+3+1+1+0)
Bamaman 16 (6+3+3+0+4)
cheezguyty 18 (1+2+3+1+11)
Rackme32 18 (2+4+1+7+4)
ayeembored 18 (6+3+3+2+4)
Volante 19 (6+3+3+1+6)
Vanya 20 (6+5+1+7+1)
barandall800 20 (2+4+1+7+6)
BigDaddyJ 20 (6+3+3+2+6)
immaf 20 (2+4+2+1+11)
Zee2 21 (2+4+3+1+11)
gamawire 23 (6+4+8+1+4)
Turd Ferguson 23 (11+3+3+2+4)

[opusthepenguin]

6. WELL! THERE IT IS! - 27 possibilities on my short list. Many more on IMDB
Hollywood loves a biopic… but not if the subject is a classical composer. Of the few films about classical composers that have been made, only one has been particularly successful. You know which one I mean. It starred F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce. Name a movie that has been released in which at least one of those two has acted.

This was by far the most dropped question. 9 out of 30 of you didn't want to answer. What were you afraid of? Did you only know the sheep answer? Or did you not even know that? Lasercats took advantage of the drop to put herself in first place. But Samer and RandyG have yet to use their drops, so how long can she stay ahead?

Amadeus (F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce) (6)
ayeembored
hbomb1947
immaf
xxaaaxx
BigDaddyJ
Bamaman

Animal House (Tom Hulce) (4)
MarkBarrett
Volante
dhkendall
RandyG

Finding Forrester (F. Murray Abraham) (2)
gamawire
goforthetie

Parenthood (Tom Hulce) (2)
Paucle
barandall800

Star Trek: Insurrection (F. Murray Abraham) (2)
Peggles
econgator

The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Tom Hulce) (2)
Spaceman Spiff
dmleach

Mighty Aphrodite (F. Murray Abraham) (1)
billiej

Thir13en Ghosts (1)
Samer

DROP
Woof
Rackme32
Vanya
lasercats
Turd Ferguson
HugoZ
Zee2
oddsox
cheezguyty

INCORRECT ANSWERS (11)
Chariots of Fire (Ben Cross played a character named Harold Abrahams. Maybe that's the connection?) - debramc

UNUSED ANSWERS
All the President's Men (F. Murray Abraham)
Dominick and Eugene (Tom Hulce)
Echo Park (Tom Hulce)
Fearless (Tom Hulce)
Frankenstein (Tom Hulce)
Last Action Hero (F. Murray Abraham)
Mimic (F. Murray Abraham)
Muppets from Space (F. Murray Abraham)
National Lampoon's Loaded Weapon (F. Murray Abraham)
Scarface (F. Murray Abraham)
Serpico (F. Murray Abraham)
The Big Fix (F. Murray Abraham)
The Bonfire of the Vanities (F. Murray Abraham)
The Bridge of San Luis Rey (F. Murray Abraham)
The Inner Circle (Tom Hulce)
The Name of the Rose (F. Murray Abraham)
The Prisoner of Second Avenue (F. Murray Abraham)
The Ritz (F. Murray Abraham)
The Sunshine Boys (F. Murray Abraham)
They Might Be Giants (F. Murray Abraham)


STANDINGS AFTER ROUND 6
lasercats 6 (0+1+1+2+2+0)
Samer 9 (2+1+2+2+1+1)
RandyG 9 (-1+1+1+2+2+4)
dhkendall 12 (2+3+2+1+0+4)
oddsox 12 (2+4+3+2+1+0)
Woof 13 (0+5+1+1+6+0)
Spaceman Spiff 13 (2+1+1+2+5+2)
billiej 13 (2+3+1+1+5+1)
HugoZ 13 (2+3+3+1+4+0)
econgator 14 (1+3+3+0+5+2)
dmleach 14 (1+3+0+2+6+2)
goforthetie 15 (1+4+1+1+6+2)
MarkBarrett 16 (2+2+3+1+4+4)
Paucle 17 (2+5+2+1+5+2)
Peggles 18 (11+3+1+1+0+2)
hbomb1947 18 (2+5+3+2+0+6)
Rackme32 18 (2+4+1+7+4+0)
cheezguyty 18 (1+2+3+1+11+0)
xxaaaxx 19 (0+5+1+2+5+6)
Vanya 20 (6+5+1+7+1+0)
Zee2 21 (2+4+3+1+11+0)
debramc 22 (2+3+0+2+4+11)
barandall800 22 (2+4+1+7+6+2)
Bamaman 22 (6+3+3+0+4+6)
Volante 23 (6+3+3+1+6+4)
Turd Ferguson 23 (11+3+3+2+4+0)
ayeembored 24 (6+3+3+2+4+6)
gamawire 25 (6+4+8+1+4+2)
immaf 26 (2+4+2+1+11+6)
BigDaddyJ 26 (6+3+3+2+6+6)

[Vanya]

But rules are rules, I guess

It's your game and you can change them.

That's true, but in this case I won't. I have my own complicated and potentially neurotic reasoning behind that decision, I suppose.

By the way, you look ... different. I can't put my finger on it. Did you forget to shave?

I guess that's fair since my Bach answer was a total guess .

I always get F. Murray Abraham mixed up with that other guy, so I dropped that one.

[Volante]

Animal House (Tom Hulce) (4)
MarkBarrett
Volante
dhkendall
RandyG

UNUSED ANSWERS
Scarface (F. Murray Abraham)

Should've gone with my first thought... F. Murray (and, well, the world,) learned he was going to be Salieri during the filming of Scarface.

[RandyG]

This was by far the most dropped question. 9 out of 30 of you didn't want to answer. What were you afraid of? Did you only know the sheep answer?

I only knew "Amadeus" and "Animal House" .... couldn't come up with the title "Echo Park," the only other film that I knew for sure one of them appeared in. I reasoned that this would probably be a heavily dropped question, so I took a gamble that though "Animal House" might sheep (or come close,) it still wouldn't be that bad. That way I could save my drop.

Animal House (Tom Hulce) (4)
MarkBarrett
Volante
dhkendall
RandyG

UNUSED ANSWERS
Scarface (F. Murray Abraham)

Should've gone with my first thought... F. Murray (and, well, the world,) learned he was going to be Salieri during the filming of Scarface.

I also think that would have been a dandy idea.

[cheezguyty]

This was by far the most dropped question. 9 out of 30 of you didn't want to answer. What were you afraid of?

Seeing as how I've never heard of either of those two actors before, I really didn't have a choice.

[dhkendall]

6. WELL! THERE IT IS! - 27 possibilities on my short list. Many more on IMDB
Hollywood loves a biopic… but not if the subject is a classical composer. Of the few films about classical composers that have been made, only one has been particularly successful. You know which one I mean. It starred F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce. Name a movie that has been released in which at least one of those two has acted.

Animal House (Tom Hulce) (4)
MarkBarrett
Volante
dhkendall
RandyG

I have Homer Simpson to thank for my correct answer. When Marge and Lisa (?) were getting into a discussion about the movie Amadeus, Homer interrupts them by saying "All *I* know is that the guy that was in that was also in Animal House. Now *that* was a movie!" I was hoping that "the guy" was either Abraham or Hulce (plus, I knew Amadeus itself would sheep.)

[opusthepenguin]

I guess that's fair since my Bach answer was a total guess .

You cost me a bit of time on that one, my friend. I would have simply marked "Friedrich Bach" as wrong. But I'd already had a situation where Mark Barrett had submitted "Emmanuel Bach". And further research in that case indicated that Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach was commonly referred to without his first two names. So I credited Mark with a correct answer.

Your situation was dicier. I could find only one indication that Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach is "generally referred to as Friedrich." I mean, there were a dozen different web sites that made the claim, but they were clearly all quoting the same source. Furthermore, most of the online sources that quoted that source (almost always without attribution) never took themselves up on that shortcut. Their articles, before and after the quote, continued to refer to old Friedrich by all four names. And I couldn't find a second, independent source that made the claim that "Friedrich Bach" was the usual way to refer to JCF.

Further complicating my decision was that "Friedrich Bach" had a second possible referent . With "Emanuel Bach", there was only one music-making Bach to whom that designation could plausibly apply. None of the others had an "Emanuel" in their name. But who's to say that "Friedrich Bach" doesn't refer to Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach? Again, only that single source made the claim.

The source was The All Music Guide to Classical Music. Their article on JCF Bach did what the articles that quoted them hadn't: it consistently referred to JCF simply as "Friedrich" or "Friedrich Bach". Maybe they're wrong, but they have the courage of their convictions. And it's a published book that seems to be reliable. So I gave them, and consequently you, the benefit of the doubt.

Congratulations on your singleton.

[immaf]

For me, getting the Bach question wrong was a classic case of "RTFQ, stupid". Plus, trying to be clever. So now I'm tied for last. Sigh,

[debramc]

6. WELL! THERE IT IS! INCORRECT ANSWERS (11)
Chariots of Fire (Ben Cross played a character named Harold Abrahams. Maybe that's the connection?) - debramc

Of all the questions here, this is one that I was positive, absolutely positive, about having a right answer. I really hate being wrong on these the most. If I'm making a WAG and I'm wrong, fine, well I was guessing anyway. But when I've been certain of a "fact" for over 25 years and it turns out to be wrong, it really disturbs me...
You're right, apparently I confused the character named "Abrahams" with the actor named "Abraham". I did this way back when I saw Amadeus, in '84 or '85, and have never had a reason to be corrected until now. Grr. The only other films I even saw here were Animal House (Tom Hulce was in it? Really?) and Star Trek: Insurrection (which I sadly don't even remember, but I know I've seen all the Star Trek films), but I could have dropped this one - I had a correct answer (a singleton, even!) to the one I did drop.
Ah, the thrills of of TD. I knew it was too much to hope for 6th place to last...

[RandyG]

.... The only other films I even saw here were Animal House (Tom Hulce was in it? Really?)...

And when Tom Hulce was announced for Amadeus people were asking "Tom Hulce? You're talking about Animal House's Tom Hulce? Really?"

[lasercats]

I'm going to take this time to admit that despite having a degree in Film Studies, the only movie I have ever seen featuring F. Murray Abraham or Tom Hulce is Amadeus. I focus on Studio-era Hollywood, okay?!

[Peggles]

6. WELL! THERE IT IS! - It starred F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce. Name a movie that has been released in which at least one of those two has acted.




Star Trek: Insurrection (F. Murray Abraham) (2)
Peggles
econgator

Great minds...