Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
trainman
Moderator Extraordinaire
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by trainman »

This Is Kirk! wrote:I'll take your word for it, but not sure I'd trust the captioning. If triceratops is in the captioners's dictionary it would probably come up automatically.
J! is not captioned in real-time -- the captioners are using a regular computer keyboard, and software that's a cross between a word processor and a video editor, so the "dictionary" concept doesn't really apply (nothing would automatically come up).
User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 6562
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! »

trainman wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:I'll take your word for it, but not sure I'd trust the captioning. If triceratops is in the captioners's dictionary it would probably come up automatically.
J! is not captioned in real-time -- the captioners are using a regular computer keyboard, and software that's a cross between a word processor and a video editor, so the "dictionary" concept doesn't really apply (nothing would automatically come up).
I know you've mentioned this before, but are you sure they're not using stenographers, though? That sure seems a lot easier then typing it in on a regular keyboard.
JyV92
Jeopardy! UTOCer
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by JyV92 »

Had to look this up
First response to 1900 book was "The wonderful Wizard of Oz. "

Wasn't sure Wizard of Oz was acceptable. Apparently it was reissued with the title. But the question asked about a book published in 1900 and they title in 1900 was the wonderful Wizard of Oz. should the Wizard of Oz as such have been an acceptable answer? Judgment call. I think I would not have accepted it. Dictated.
User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 10319
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

JyV92 wrote:Had to look this up
First response to 1900 book was "The wonderful Wizard of Oz. "

Wasn't sure Wizard of Oz was acceptable. Apparently it was reissued with the title. But the question asked about a book published in 1900 and they title in 1900 was the wonderful Wizard of Oz. should the Wizard of Oz as such have been an acceptable answer? Judgment call. I think I would not have accepted it. Dictated.
I believe the Jeopardy! rules specifically state that books about plucky heroines in wacky places may always be referred to by their shortened titles.
User avatar
Volante
Harbinger of the Doomed Lemur
Posts: 9254
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

OldSchoolChamp wrote:More to the point, the French title doesn’t fit the category. Swann’s Way is an instance of “Whose What?”; Du côté de chez Swann is not.
They didn't explicitly say "Each answer will follow the form..." There have been a few times when the given response didn't match the category, but as the category was not in quotes, the response stands.

Yes, it's a loophole, but they've also been consistent with it.
opusthepenguin wrote:For IF YOU WATCH THE MOVIE BACKWARDS..., I precalled a clue that said something like AFTER SOME ADVENTURES, DOROTHY ENDS UP SAFE AT HOME WITH HER LITTLE DOG. I think the writers missed a fun opportunity there. Maybe this category will come up again.

Another possibility: IRRITATING TIME LOOP TURNS NICE GUY INTO SELF-ABSORBED JERK BY FEBRUARY 1ST.
MAN AGES NORMALLY
The best thing that Neil Armstrong ever did, was to let us all imagine we were him.
Latest movies (1-10): Everything Everywhere All at Once (10), Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken (6), Black Sunday /1960/ (6), Marcel the Shell with Shoes On (7)
User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 10319
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin »

Volante wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:For IF YOU WATCH THE MOVIE BACKWARDS..., I precalled a clue that said something like AFTER SOME ADVENTURES, DOROTHY ENDS UP SAFE AT HOME WITH HER LITTLE DOG. I think the writers missed a fun opportunity there. Maybe this category will come up again.

Another possibility: IRRITATING TIME LOOP TURNS NICE GUY INTO SELF-ABSORBED JERK BY FEBRUARY 1ST.
MAN AGES NORMALLY
:lol:
User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 8980
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr »

Volante wrote: MAN AGES NORMALLY
I was going to mention that Seinfeld episode ...
User avatar
RoJo
Contributor
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:54 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by RoJo »

alietr wrote:
Volante wrote: MAN AGES NORMALLY
I was going to mention that Seinfeld episode ...
And I Memento...
davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 6030
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey »

Robert K S wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:I'll take your word for it, but not sure I'd trust the captioning. If triceratops is in the captioners's dictionary it would probably come up automatically.
They did get "capstone" wrong in the interview segment...
I find this interesting. I believe Jim said "capstone design class." But it's indistinct. The captions rendered that as CAPSO and design class. It so happens that CAPSO is a real acronym. It stands for California Advanced Propulsion Systems Operation, a place where jet engines are or were tested.
It seems to me that the captioner, unable to make out capstone, must have researched what it sounded like and decided that it was a reference to this CAPSO found on the internet that has a connection to airplane design. Most captioning would skip over an unfamiliar word, but this captioner took time to try to make sense of it. A failed attempt, but still more than a captioner usually does.
Lore
Valued Contributor
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:27 am
Location: What is the capital of Manitoba?

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Lore »

bomtr wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
Lore wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:Great game by Liz, but I could have sworn I heard her say "triceratop" rather than "triceratops." I expected a neg on that. Did anyone else hear that?
Does it really matter whether she used the singular or the plural? 8-)
It does because triceratop is not the singular form.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Whoosh and whoosh again, my friend.
Yes, I admit it. I was an idiot. My only excuse is my IV drip of caffeine had run out and I hadn't replaced it yet.
User avatar
trainman
Moderator Extraordinaire
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by trainman »

This Is Kirk! wrote:I know you've mentioned this before, but are you sure they're not using stenographers, though? That sure seems a lot easier then typing it in on a regular keyboard.
J! is probably the show least likely to use a stenographer to do the transcribing portion of the captions -- there's too much spoken material on the show that's not necessary to caption (i.e., most of the clues), or is potentially obscure enough that it might not be in the stenographer's dictionary (i.e., some of the responses).

The transcription is only one part of it, anyway -- there's also arranging the captions on the screen and timing when they'll appear.
User avatar
OldSchoolChamp
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

OrangeSAM wrote:
OldSchoolChamp wrote:
boson wrote:Rather generous of J! to accept the French title. To pick a nit, the French title wouldn't be for "Remembrance..." but for "à la recherche de temps perdu".
More to the point, the French title doesn’t fit the category. Swann’s Way is an instance of “Whose What?”; Du côté de chez Swann is not.
While it doesn't follow the pattern of the other responses in the category, the French title does contain a possessive phrase (chez Swann).
Chez is not a possessive in French, it’s a preposition.
Volante wrote:They didn't explicitly say "Each answer will follow the form..." There have been a few times when the given response didn't match the category, but as the category was not in quotes, the response stands.

Yes, it's a loophole, but they've also been consistent with it.
The category title “Whose What?” clearly implies that responses must be in that form. This is analogous to a contestant being ruled wrong in an “n-Letter Words” category for giving a singular instead of a plural (or vice versa) because the number of letters doesn’t match.
We shall not cease from exploration,
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
User avatar
OldSchoolChamp
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OldSchoolChamp »

OldSchoolChamp wrote:This was also a particularly egregious example of the unfair rule that re-crediting a response initially ruled incorrect doesn’t negate a subsequent correct rebound by another player. . . . I believe the question was worth $2000 and the score at the time was
  • Hunter: 18400
    Jim: 9800
    Liz: 16700
. . . [S]uppose it had been Liz who was initially ruled incorrect on the Swann’s Way question, and Hunter who followed up with a correct rebound? If her initial response had been accepted, the rebound would never have happened and she would enter FJ with the lead, 18700–18400. Belatedly accepting her response while allowing Hunter to keep his $2000 rebound reverses the lead, giving him a 20400–18700 wagering advantage. If they both then respond correctly in FJ (and assuming he makes the standard shutout bet), the outcome of the match is reversed.
Bamaman wrote:I think if it had happened as OSC described, the screwed over player would have had a major case to be brought back.
Unfortunately, as things stand, I’m afraid the case would be denied. The rules are thoroughly discussed in the green room the morning of taping, and all contestants sign a waiver acknowledging that the judges’ rulings are final and not subject to appeal. Appeals are nevertheless sometimes granted on the grounds that a plausibly correct response should not have been rejected, but not that the rules themselves are unfair. The rules are the rules. In this case I believe this particular rule is unfair and inconsistent and should be changed, but realistically that ain’t ever gonna happen. I do not believe a contestant’s protest would be upheld in these circumstances.
We shall not cease from exploration,
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
bpmod
Rank
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:26 pm
Location: Hamilton Ontario

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by bpmod »

That's the first I have ever heard of 'house' being a preposition (or at least part of one). The interwebs seem to agree with that, but, for corroboration, they use the French word only in an English sentence, which makes things ambiguous at best.

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.
davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 6030
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey »

bpmod wrote:That's the first I have ever heard of 'house' being a preposition (or at least part of one). The interwebs seem to agree with that, but, for corroboration, they use the French word only in an English sentence, which makes things ambiguous at best.

Brian
Maison means house. Chez means "at the house [or home, or place] of." There's no English preposition that's equivalent.
User avatar
OrangeSAM
(Unranked)
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OrangeSAM »

OldSchoolChamp wrote: Chez is not a possessive in French, it’s a preposition.
davey wrote:
bpmod wrote:That's the first I have ever heard of 'house' being a preposition (or at least part of one). The interwebs seem to agree with that, but, for corroboration, they use the French word only in an English sentence, which makes things ambiguous at best.

Brian
Maison means house. Chez means "at the house [or home, or place] of." There's no English preposition that's equivalent.
So the title Du côté de chez Swann has a preposition followed by a preposition?? Mon Dieu. I don't know what to think of about that. Back to at you.
OCSam
User avatar
buckeyebrain
Valued Contributor
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:42 am

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by buckeyebrain »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
trainman wrote:
This Is Kirk! wrote:I'll take your word for it, but not sure I'd trust the captioning. If triceratops is in the captioners's dictionary it would probably come up automatically.
J! is not captioned in real-time -- the captioners are using a regular computer keyboard, and software that's a cross between a word processor and a video editor, so the "dictionary" concept doesn't really apply (nothing would automatically come up).
I know you've mentioned this before, but are you sure they're not using stenographers, though? That sure seems a lot easier then typing it in on a regular keyboard.
Stenographers/Real Time Captioners are used for live telecasts (such as news, sporting events); as well as in the courtroom, in the classroom and in other non-media uses and they use a steno machine, able to transcribe at upwards of 225 words per minute (or even more). These use the scroll type of captions, since it's live. And because it's live, one typo or mis-hear can throw the accuracy into chaos.

Pop-In Captions are used for pre-recorded shows (such as 'Jeopardy!', movies, sitcoms, etc.), as well as DVD's, and can be added and edited in advance. The captions pop in where appropriate, and if there are two or more people having a dialogue, the captions can be shifted under one person or another, or moved to the top of the screen if there is something important on the bottom at that moment. There are almost no errors on this.

There's also a third option, where shows are recorded in advance, but there isn't enough time to add the scripted dialogue to a show before its broadcast (such as late-night shows that are taped that afternoon). Those can be edited somewhat, but use a scroll-style caption and some errors can occur. The other problem is that the timing of the scroll can be thrown off and be too slow or too fast. For example, 'The Price Is Right' uses this technique and sometimes the captions jump ahead and a win or loss is revealed prematurely (or the contestant reacts first when the captions are too slow).
User avatar
jeff6286
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 5228
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jeff6286 »

opusthepenguin wrote:For IF YOU WATCH THE MOVIE BACKWARDS..., I precalled a clue that said something like AFTER SOME ADVENTURES, DOROTHY ENDS UP SAFE AT HOME WITH HER LITTLE DOG. I think the writers missed a fun opportunity there. Maybe this category will come up again.

Another possibility: IRRITATING TIME LOOP TURNS NICE GUY INTO SELF-ABSORBED JERK BY FEBRUARY 1ST.
My pre-call was "Brad Pitt ages normally".

*Edit* Gah, reading this thread 3 days late and I make the classic blunder of responding before reading through to the last page.
User avatar
Volante
Harbinger of the Doomed Lemur
Posts: 9254
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante »

jeff6286 wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:For IF YOU WATCH THE MOVIE BACKWARDS..., I precalled a clue that said something like AFTER SOME ADVENTURES, DOROTHY ENDS UP SAFE AT HOME WITH HER LITTLE DOG. I think the writers missed a fun opportunity there. Maybe this category will come up again.

Another possibility: IRRITATING TIME LOOP TURNS NICE GUY INTO SELF-ABSORBED JERK BY FEBRUARY 1ST.
My pre-call was "Brad Pitt ages normally".

*Edit* Gah, reading this thread 3 days late and I make the classic blunder of responding before reading through to the last page.
I'm used to it by now :lol:

Yours probably keys it better though, considering the comments.
The best thing that Neil Armstrong ever did, was to let us all imagine we were him.
Latest movies (1-10): Everything Everywhere All at Once (10), Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken (6), Black Sunday /1960/ (6), Marcel the Shell with Shoes On (7)
User avatar
trainman
Moderator Extraordinaire
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: Thursday, June 16, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by trainman »

buckeyebrain wrote:There's also a third option, where shows are recorded in advance, but there isn't enough time to add the scripted dialogue to a show before its broadcast (such as late-night shows that are taped that afternoon). Those can be edited somewhat, but use a scroll-style caption and some errors can occur. The other problem is that the timing of the scroll can be thrown off and be too slow or too fast. For example, 'The Price Is Right' uses this technique and sometimes the captions jump ahead and a win or loss is revealed prematurely (or the contestant reacts first when the captions are too slow).
Back in my captioning days, the scroll was being timed manually -- the captioner, dialed in via modem to an encoder at the network, would be pressing a key on the computer keyboard, sending the file out one line at a time. So I can't explain why, or how, that could be happening to the "TPIR" captions.
Post Reply