Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by astrohip » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:42 am

I don't think a BMS was called for on the Harry Potter clue. To me, a BMS is where you've given an answer that is somewhat correct, but simply needs more info to be exactly correct. The Harry Potter books are not numbered in the title, and are rarely if ever called by their sequence number. So the judges didn't need more info, they needed the correct info.

my .02

BTW, I have no problem with Pranjal's quick responses on DD. Alex often sets a snail's pace, and for those of us who like to see a complete game, the brief discourse he often says before allowing a contestant to actually wager is a waste of time. Maybe some contestants need the "you're only $8,000 off the lead..." blather, but if you don't, just let them get on with it.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:53 am

astrohip wrote:The Harry Potter books are not numbered in the title, and are rarely if ever called by their sequence number.
That last part is incorrect. I frequently see the books (or movie adaptations) referred to as "Harry Potter 7" in various quizzes, discussions, etc. Even typing "Harry Potter 7" into Wikipedia redirects you to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. So while not the most common usage, yes, it's used often enough.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:57 am

Incidentally, in this recent game, a contestant was ruled correct without even a BMS for saying "Star Wars Episode 7" when the expected response was "Star Wars: The Force Awakens". While yes, the former is more common for Star Wars than Harry Potter 7 is for HP, it's not that big of a difference.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by pauerpoint » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:18 am

IronNeck wrote:Incidentally, in this recent game, a contestant was ruled correct without even a BMS for saying "Star Wars Episode 7" when the expected response was "Star Wars: The Force Awakens". While yes, the former is more common for Star Wars than Harry Potter 7 is for HP, it's not that big of a difference.
Ha ha, thanks IronNeck, I was going to point this out. I remember Alex stared at the judges for the longest time before ruling me correct. FWIW, IMDb says the "original title" (whatever that means) was "Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens."

In the same game, I was BMS'ed for a first name when I answered "Cabot" and Sebastian was already in the clue. Go figure.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Elijah Baley » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:20 am

IronNeck wrote:Incidentally, in this recent game, a contestant was ruled correct without even a BMS for saying "Star Wars Episode 7" when the expected response was "Star Wars: The Force Awakens". While yes, the former is more common for Star Wars than Harry Potter 7 is for HP, it's not that big of a difference.
The Star Wars movies included the episode number in the title or subtitle. That was a George Lucas thing. They didn't do the same thing for the Harry Potter series.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MitchO » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:46 am

I haven't done the math but ... if they BMS'd Pranjal for "Harry Potter 7" (and I'm not saying they should have, just asking if they did), Monikka could have either clammed or rebounded (since she clearly knew "Deathly Hallows" was #7). Would that have affected her crush/non-crush scenario and changed the way Pranjal had to bet?

It's a real shame, she was clearly quite good and I enjoyed her. She's in that "if only they could have a Second Chance tournament" group for me.

EDIT: It was a $600 clue, so she would be at $8200 (clam) or $8800 (rebound). He got both DDs afterward, so there's also no way to tell if he would have adjusted his bets at all, but I believe he couldn't bet enough to cover Karen and still lock out Monikka.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Woppy T » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:23 am

I thought the waving at the judges over the Harry Potter ruling looked a bit awkward, but I can't blame him. Those who have been on the show: do they instruct you on how to ask the judges for a ruling? Also, do contestants ever ask the judges to review an opponent's response, saying that it was improperly accepted?

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by whoisalexjacob » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:37 am

Woppy T wrote:I thought the waving at the judges over the Harry Potter ruling looked a bit awkward, but I can't blame him. Those who have been on the show: do they instruct you on how to ask the judges for a ruling? Also, do contestants ever ask the judges to review an opponent's response, saying that it was improperly accepted?
Yes and yes, I have done both. That was a bit of a spaz out, as they are pretty clear in telling you not to make a scene like that. No offense intended towards Pranjal, seemed like a symptom of him being an intensely competitive player, which I can definitely appreciate.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by DBear » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:58 am

I would've been absolutely livid had they let "Harry Potter 7" slide. That's like calling Skyfall "James Bond 23 :geek: ".

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by skullturf » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:08 pm

This was an odd FJ for me. This was one that I personally got quickly, but I also believed it to be on the difficult side.

I don't shy away from birth dates and death dates, so I knew 1849 = Poe (I also used to live in Newark, Delaware, where there's a stuffed raven in a local tavern that Poe has visited, and I have visited Baltimore a few times), but I also know that Jeopardy! doesn't really expect us to know very many exact years. Maybe the moon landing, the JFK assassination, Pearl Harbor, and a small handful of others. Exact death years of individuals? JFK, Abraham Lincoln, probably FDR and Hitler and Mussolini, but hardly anyone else. Probably no writers. Possibly Shakespeare = 1616.

I think it's perfectly acceptable just to know that Poe was "around the mid 19th century" and someone like Thoreau, for example, was also "around the mid 19th century".

I don't know much about the timeline of Poe's success, but I know that he died young and ill and unhappy, so it seems plausible that his acclaim or fame level as an author was much higher some time after his death than at the time he died.

But I also feel like this FJ didn't have a lot of concrete things to grab onto during those 30 seconds, if the exact year 1849 doesn't mean anything to you. I guess you just try to think of *some* American author from the first half of the 1800s who maybe wasn't fully appreciated in his own time... It makes sense in retrospect, but it would be so easy not to get there in those 30 seconds, and just randomly guess an American author who might have died around then.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:49 pm

omgwheelhouse wrote:
Woppy T wrote:I thought the waving at the judges over the Harry Potter ruling looked a bit awkward, but I can't blame him. Those who have been on the show: do they instruct you on how to ask the judges for a ruling? Also, do contestants ever ask the judges to review an opponent's response, saying that it was improperly accepted?
Yes and yes, I have done both. That was a bit of a spaz out, as they are pretty clear in telling you not to make a scene like that. No offense intended towards Pranjal, seemed like a symptom of him being an intensely competitive player, which I can definitely appreciate.
As a viewer, I was happy for the "behind the scenes" scene but was surprised it happened. It was interesting that Alex chose to address Pranjal about the assumed question on air. I don't think we've ever had any indication on the show that contestants can request a review. Reversals have always been presented as a decision the judges came to without prompting. I assume that's true of SOME reversals.

I wonder how the scene would have played out if Alex hadn't drawn attention to Pranjal's gesture. Would they have edited it out, not showing us the traditional wide shot of all three contestants as we went to commercial? That would've been awkward. Still, this seems as much on Alex as it is on Pranjal. Alex is the one who brought the issue front and center. And, as I say, I'm glad he did.

Anyone know what the ignorami of Facebook and Twitter are saying about this? I'm betting they've got opinions.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:50 pm

DBear wrote:I would've been absolutely livid had they let "Harry Potter 7" slide. That's like calling Skyfall "James Bond 23 :geek: ".
Not quite as "James Bond" isn't in the title of Skyfall or any other movie starring the Bond character like it is in Harry Potter or Star Wars or Star Trek or the Bourne movies, the number, whether it's an official part of the movie title (Star Wars, Star Trek) or not (Harry Potter, Bourne) can be used to distinguish between titles that have the same word in them.
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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by harrumph » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:35 pm

Poe's reputation was sullied to this day by that obituary writer (from Wikipedia) After Poe's death, Rufus Wilmot Griswold wrote his obituary under the pseudonym "Ludwig". Griswold, who became the literary executor of Poe's estate, was actually a rival of Poe and later published his first full biography, depicting him as a depraved, drunk, drug-addled madman. Much of the evidence for this image of Poe is believed to have been forged by Griswold, and though friends of Poe denounced it,[4] this interpretation had lasting impact.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Woppy T » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:55 pm

dhkendall wrote:
DBear wrote:I would've been absolutely livid had they let "Harry Potter 7" slide. That's like calling Skyfall "James Bond 23 :geek: ".
Not quite as "James Bond" isn't in the title of Skyfall or any other movie starring the Bond character like it is in Harry Potter or Star Wars or Star Trek or the Bourne movies, the number, whether it's an official part of the movie title (Star Wars, Star Trek) or not (Harry Potter, Bourne) can be used to distinguish between titles that have the same word in them.
I don't think it's enough to make a response of "Harry Potter 7" correct, but each of the books is labeled as being a different school "year," with Deathly Hallows being "Year 7." I'm guessing he relied on that in his conversation with the judges.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:46 pm

astrohip wrote:I don't think a BMS was called for on the Harry Potter clue. To me, a BMS is where you've given an answer that is somewhat correct, but simply needs more info to be exactly correct. either a.) only vaguely connected to the correct response in the most tenuous way, thus causing the contestant to become a total deer in the headlights, or b.) for something already specific enough that no specificity is needed to define what you're saying (cf. "presidents named Kennedy").
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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by chmmr » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:27 pm

I also disagree with the ruling, since I think "Harry Potter Book X" is a common enough way to refer to them. If I were on the show I would have to take a second to remember which one Book X was, since that's how I refer to them in my memory.

However, I believe it's Jeopardy canon that they only accept the full Harry Potter title, so at least they're consistent.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:01 pm

John Boy wrote:
JemRiffster wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:WLT Don Quixote at $200?
It makes sense that a chapter about a man confusing an inn for a castle would be in a novel about a man with delusions of knighthood.
TenPoundHammer wrote: The "Harry Potter 7" ruling was interesting. It was obviously an HP book, but I had no idea which, and saw no way to narrow it down without knowing the series inside-out.
The Battle of Hogwarts is essentially the climax of the series, so it's most likely in the final book. Of course, if you don't know the titles, you're out of luck.
I heard that the next in the series is to be called "Harry Potter and the Barrel of Cash," since Harry has made J. K. Rowling wealthier than the queen. OK, maybe not quite, but....
Maybe it should be mentioned here that next one in the series has arrived...It's a 5-hour play called Harry Potter and the Cursed Child and it just opened in London to sellout crowds and is sure to be on j! before long...and to be the next Hamilton when it makes it to these shores...

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/ ... tre-london

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:15 pm

John Boy wrote:I heard that the next in the series is to be called "Harry Potter and the Barrel of Cash," since Harry has made J. K. Rowling wealthier than the queen. OK, maybe not quite, but....
If you're just talking personal wealth, then yeah, Rowling is MUCH wealthier than the Queen.

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:52 am

pauerpoint wrote:I was BMS'ed for a first name when I answered "Cabot" and Sebastian was already in the clue. Go figure.
Here's my justification for that: when a clue names a famous person's relative, omitting their shared last name, they're looking for a full name. They're not going to let someone who only knows the name of the person mentioned in the clue get away with a last-name-only response.

(I'm convinced all of us had this in mind in my ToC semifinal, when a clue was about a British author and "his author-father Kingsley"; I believe we all knew Kingsley's last name, but were afraid of a BMS for his son's first name.)

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Re: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:18 am

seaborgium wrote:
pauerpoint wrote:I was BMS'ed for a first name when I answered "Cabot" and Sebastian was already in the clue. Go figure.
Here's my justification for that: when a clue names a famous person's relative, omitting their shared last name, they're looking for a full name. They're not going to let someone who only knows the name of the person mentioned in the clue get away with a last-name-only response.

(I'm convinced all of us had this in mind in my ToC semifinal, when a clue was about a British author and "his author-father Kingsley"; I believe we all knew Kingsley's last name, but were afraid of a BMS for his son's first name.)
That's a good point. What about the edge case where they DON'T give the first name of the more famous person but it's obvious who it is? E.g.:

OUR FIRST DIVORCED PRESIDENT BROUGHT THIS SECOND WIFE TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH HIM

You'd better not count on getting away with "Who is Reagan?" ("Be more specific." "Who is MRS. Reagan?")

On the other hand:

THIS WOMAN DIED IN 1828 AFTER HER HUSBAND WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT BUT BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE

This is the exact same issue in principle, but somehow I think giving a last name only would be less likely to get a BMS.

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