Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Archivists » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:30 am

Game Recap for Show #7410, 2016-11-25

CONTESTANTS
Justin Bender, a technical engineer from Boulder, Colorado
Liz Hutchens, a registered nurse from Lake Wylie, South Carolina
Andrew Lee, an aspiring TV writer from West Hollywood, California (whose 2-day cash winnings total $40,002)

OPENING REMARKS
Alex: Thank you, Johnny. Hello, everyone. Because I want to get through all of the clues on the program today, I am going to limit my opening remarks to "Welcome." Justin, Liz, Andrew, let's go to work. Jeopardy! Round. And these categories now in play...

JEOPARDY! ROUND CATEGORIES
STATES' HIGHEST POINTS (5/5)
SLANG FOR LIQUOR (4/5)
THIRD IN THE MOVIE SERIES (5/5)
MAKE NO MYTHTAKE (5/5)
CEOs (5/5)
FEEL THE BURN (5/5, including 1 correct Daily Double)

THE RIGHTS & THE WRONGS
Justin: 13 R (including 1 DD), 0 W
Andrew: 9 R, 0 W
Liz: 7 R, 0 W

Clues revealed: 30
Triple Stumpers: 1
Jeopardy! Round Potential Lach Trash: $400



SCORES AT THE FIRST BREAK
Andrew: $5,000
Justin: $3,600
Liz: $2,000

CONTESTANT INTERVIEWS



Alex: Justin Bender is a technical engineer in languages who helped save a language.

Justin: Yeah.

Alex: Where? And what language?

Justin: Sure. So I worked with speakers of Amazigh, which is an indigenous language of Morocco. It's--it's not necessarily in danger of dying out, but it's very politically disfavored in Morocco. And I helped them not only to make the case that it should be taught and have equal status as a language, but also helped to develop some teaching materials to continue teaching the language.

Alex: Is it only oral? Or is it a written language as well?

Justin: No, it's a written language as well. They have a script called Neo-Tifinagh, which they got from stones in the desert, basically, and reinvented.

Alex: Neo-Tifinagh. Yes, I'm very familiar with that.

[Laughter]




Alex: Liz Hutchens. Registered nurse from South Carolina who didn't do a good job...

[Liz laughs.]

Alex: ...in her first experience with snowmobile. I'm going to make the assumption that it didn't happen in South Carolina.

Liz: No, I grew up in North Dakota.

Alex: Ah.

Liz: And my family decided to take some snowmobiles up to Bottineau, North Dakota. I was about 4 or 5. And at the end of the trip, my dad said, "Well hey, I'll let my 5-year-old daughter try to get this up on the trailer." So he's standing right next to me. I had my hand--he's like, "Just squeeze it. Just give it a little touch," and boy did I. We went off the trailer into a snowbank. I was fine, but the next thing I heard was my mom yelling for my dad, not in a good way.

[Laughter]

Alex: Yep. Dads do stupid things.

[Liz laughs.]




Alex: Andrew Lee is our champion. He was charged by some wild animals while on safari in Africa.

Andrew: Yes.

Alex: What are we talking about? Cape buffalo? Elephants? Rhinos?

Andrew: Nothing that exciting.

Alex: Aw.

Andrew: There were impalas. But their horns were, like, very big and sharp, so it was still scary.

Alex: I've seen the Chevrolet commercials. I know how their horns look.

[Laughter]

JEOPARDY! ROUND DAILY DOUBLE
Justin found the Daily Double on the 18th clue. Andrew had $5,000, Liz had $2,000, and Justin was at $4,600. Justin wagered $2,500.

FEEL THE BURN $800: Major nosebleeds? No problem with this procedure in which a laser or electric probe may be used to seal off a vessel

TRIPLE STUMPERS IN THE JEOPARDY! ROUND
SLANG FOR LIQUOR $400: Lewis Carroll coined chortle by combining chuckle & this word

SCORES AT THE END OF THE JEOPARDY! ROUND
Justin: $10,700
Andrew: $6,000
Liz: $2,600

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Double Jeopardy! Round

Post by Archivists » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:30 am

Placeholder for DJ! Round

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Final Jeopardy! Round

Post by theFJguy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:31 am

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
ENTERTAINERS

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
He won a Tony & later an Oscar for the same role & decades later, published a memoir called "Master of Ceremonies"

Andrew Lee: 6600+5801=12401
Liz Hutchens: 6200-6200=0
Justin Bender: 20300-700=19600 (New Champ)

Correct response:
Spoiler
Show
Joey Grey (Liz – Jack Lemmon) (Justin – Marlon Brandon)

Daily Doubles
Justin: 4600+2500
Andrew: 12000-4000
Andrew: 9600-3000

Coryats
Andrew: 13600
Liz: 6200
Justin: 18600

Combined: 38,400
Last edited by theFJguy on Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:20 pm

Wow. Justin is one of those stealth champs. He didn't seem to be dominating, and then the camera pulled back and showed us the scores at the end of SJ.

Andrew Lee was a worthy opponent. But at least for this game, he just couldn't keep up. Liz seemed really good as well and had some decent gets. We've seen plenty of contestants that she would have walked over to an easy victory. Not today. Not with Andrew and Justin and these categories.

Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.

Proudest get from the fourth podium: canoodle/candle.

I would not have rung in on the clue asking for a Latin-derived word meaning to burn with hot liquids or steam. If it had been a DD, I'd have tried to think of ANY other plausible word besides "scald." Scald just seems so obviously Germanic--Anglo Saxon or Old Norse or something. (And indeed, "skald" is an Old Norse word for a Viking poet.)

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:50 pm

So was Alex saying his opening remarks deliberately offered a hint for FJ? He knew what FJ would be when he opened that way, right?

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:44 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.
Okay, I'll bite here. I didn't mind that wager nearly as much as you did. If he's wrong, it at least keeps him in second place going into Final. If he's right, he's still a 4-to-1 dog in Final, but he's got a chance -- and it sets him up for an all-in bet in Final that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do if he was in two-thirds, so maybe it was for the best in terms of maximizing winnings?

And, as it turns out, 3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong.
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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:11 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.
Okay, I'll bite here. I didn't mind that wager nearly as much as you did. If he's wrong, it at least keeps him in second place going into Final. If he's right, he's still a 4-to-1 dog in Final, but he's got a chance -- and it sets him up for an all-in bet in Final that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do if he was in two-thirds, so maybe it was for the best in terms of maximizing winnings?

And, as it turns out, 3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that angle. Personally, I'd never jeopardize a win to protect my chance at second place. But that's obviously a philsophical matter. If that was Andrew's game, I can respect that.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:21 pm

The scores when the last DD was played:

Andrew: 9600
Liz: 5800
Justin: 20300

There was just a $400 clue remaining. No matter what Andrew does (or what happens on the last clue), he cannot have the lead entering the FJ! round. Andrew has to have the DD right to have a chance to win the game.

From there I think there are plenty of defensible wagers that of course won't pass muster with the "have to bet the farm" crowd. I think it's reasonable to bet on what may happen with the last $400 clue and I did not get the sense from Alex that the round would end with the DD clue.

It will be interesting to see the opinions from the regular wagering quarterbacks.

I do think Alex was purposeful in saying, "Welcome" in his opening and was looking ahead to the FJ! clue in doing it. What I wonder is if he ran that opening by his superiors or went rogue?

To any board member or viewer who solved the FJ! clue aided by Alex's opening I applaud your perceptive instincts. I wrote Joel Grey in the tweenstaget range (after instaget and before 5 seconds were up) as the dots connected the right way for me.

Liz guessing Jack Lemmon has me thinking perhaps The Odd Couple?

Curious about other winners of the Oscar & Tony for the same role I found this on a Tony site:
Spoiler
Show
Eight performers have won the Tony and later the Oscar for the same role:
José Ferrer in Cyrano de Bergerac (Tony: 1947/Oscar: 1950)
Shirley Booth in Come Back, Little Sheba (1950/1953)
Yul Brynner in The King and I (1952/1956)
Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady (1957/1964)
Anne Bancroft in The Miracle Worker (1960/1962)
Paul Scofield in A Man for All Seasons (1962/1966)
Jack Albertson in The Subject Was Roses (1965/1968)
Joel Grey in Cabaret (1967/1973)
Lila Kedrova did it the other way around. She won an Oscar for Zorba the Greek, and 20 years later won a Tony for the same role in Zorba (1964 Oscar/1984 Tony). - See more at: http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/history ... VTktu.dpuf
Justin knew his GAME 7 PITCHERS well, so it was very refreshing to see a player handle that kind of material so successfully. Not that anything in there was hard, but it still required baseball knowledge that can sometimes be lacking on J! in the 21st c.

I wonder if Andrew would have been aided by rereading his first DD and taking the extra thinking time allowed. Guessing Grapes of Wrath is understandable while Of Mice and Men seems like it is there for the solving with a little more thought.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:28 pm

Total WAG, but I'll take it.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:28 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.
Okay, I'll bite here. I didn't mind that wager nearly as much as you did. If he's wrong, it at least keeps him in second place going into Final. If he's right, he's still a 4-to-1 dog in Final, but he's got a chance -- and it sets him up for an all-in bet in Final that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do if he was in two-thirds, so maybe it was for the best in terms of maximizing winnings?

And, as it turns out, 3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that angle. Personally, I'd never jeopardize a win to protect my chance at second place. But that's obviously a philsophical matter. If that was Andrew's game, I can respect that.
Well, he's not jeopardizing the win in this specific case. There is no way he could hold the lead going into Final.

I don't think a wagering model currently exists that can properly qualify or quantify what the best play is here for Andrew.
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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:53 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.
Okay, I'll bite here. I didn't mind that wager nearly as much as you did. If he's wrong, it at least keeps him in second place going into Final. If he's right, he's still a 4-to-1 dog in Final, but he's got a chance -- and it sets him up for an all-in bet in Final that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do if he was in two-thirds, so maybe it was for the best in terms of maximizing winnings?

And, as it turns out, 3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that angle. Personally, I'd never jeopardize a win to protect my chance at second place. But that's obviously a philsophical matter. If that was Andrew's game, I can respect that.
Well, he's not jeopardizing the win in this specific case. There is no way he could hold the lead going into Final.

I don't think a wagering model currently exists that can properly qualify or quantify what the best play is here for Andrew.
Are you sure we're watching the same game?

Mark says these were the scores when that last DD came up:

Andrew: 9600
Liz: 5800
Justin: 20300

There was $400 left on the board.

So we agree that he can't put himself in the lead for FJ, regardless. Not even if he bets it all and Justin gets the final $400 clue wrong before Andrew gets it right. The lead is out of the question.

But I'm not following your statement that "3,000 is the most [Andrew] can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong." With those numbers, he can't get the DD wrong and guarantee second place period. Not if he bets $3,000. Not if he bets $5. He's got less than double what Liz has. Right?

And how is he not jeopardizing his chance at a win by betting only $3000? If he gets it right (which he HAS to do to have any real chance at winning the game), he's still in a position where he has to get FJ right as well. Wouldn't it be better to be within two-thirds of Justin so he could win on a miss? That means he should bet at least $4,201, which accounts for the possibility that Justin will pick up that final $400. Anything less statistically decreases his chance of winning, yeah?

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:15 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
opusthepenguin wrote:Ok, get it out of the way. Andrew! Buddy! What was with that last DD wager?!?!!?? You're locked out. The one clue left on the board CANNOT get you back in the game. You HAVE TO get this DD right. You CANNOT win unless you do. WHY DIDN'T YOU BET IT ALL?!!???!!! I mean, yeah, bet everything but a buck if you want to play FJ for old times' sake. I wouldn't chide you for that. But $3,000?!??! That wasn't enough to even put you within two-thirds.
Okay, I'll bite here. I didn't mind that wager nearly as much as you did. If he's wrong, it at least keeps him in second place going into Final. If he's right, he's still a 4-to-1 dog in Final, but he's got a chance -- and it sets him up for an all-in bet in Final that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do if he was in two-thirds, so maybe it was for the best in terms of maximizing winnings?

And, as it turns out, 3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that angle. Personally, I'd never jeopardize a win to protect my chance at second place. But that's obviously a philsophical matter. If that was Andrew's game, I can respect that.
Well, he's not jeopardizing the win in this specific case. There is no way he could hold the lead going into Final.

I don't think a wagering model currently exists that can properly qualify or quantify what the best play is here for Andrew.
Are you sure we're watching the same game?

Mark says these were the scores when that last DD came up:

Andrew: 9600
Liz: 5800
Justin: 20300

There was $400 left on the board.

So we agree that he can't put himself in the lead for FJ, regardless. Not even if he bets it all and Justin gets the final $400 clue wrong before Andrew gets it right. The lead is out of the question.

But I'm not following your statement that "3,000 is the most [Andrew] can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong." With those numbers, he can't get the DD wrong and guarantee second place period. Not if he bets $3,000. Not if he bets $5. He's got less than double what Liz has. Right?

And how is he not jeopardizing his chance at a win by betting only $3000? If he gets it right (which he HAS to do to have any real chance at winning the game), he's still in a position where he has to get FJ right as well. Wouldn't it be better to be within two-thirds of Justin so he could win on a miss? That means he should bet at least $4,201, which accounts for the possibility that Justin will pick up that final $400. Anything less statistically decreases his chance of winning, yeah?
1) $3,000 guarantees me second place going into Final. That there is a positive.

Most importantly:

2) $3,000 gives me a chance to win if I am right. Considering I must then go all-in in Final, my potential winnings here are now at $25,200.

3) If I bet $4,300, that puts me at $13,900 if I'm right - and I'm likely not winning much more than $14,000.

Considering a win on Jeopardy! is usually worth about $20,000 - a difference of $11,000 would be tantamout to 55% of a win. And this bet doesn't drop his chances of winning 55%. Your chances of winning at the wrong end of a crush game is about 20% - you're not 75% to win the trailing end of a two-thirds.

(also note, most importantly: you are not 0% to win if you get the Daily Double right on either bet, so saying he is jeopardizing his chance at a win is horribly wrong.)
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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by DBear » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:29 pm

NHO John Gray & probably never will again.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by StevenH » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:32 pm

I have also never heard of Joel Grey.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:41 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:1) $3,000 guarantees me second place going into Final. That there is a positive.

Most importantly:

2) $3,000 gives me a chance to win if I am right. Considering I must then go all-in in Final, my potential winnings here are now at $25,200.
I feel as though we're talking past each other, but I can't figure out how. I don't think anyone is saying $3,000 gave him no chance to win, even if he got the DD right. Of course it gave him a CHANCE, and I said so. I was responding to your statement that "3,000 is the most he can bet while still absolutely guaranteeing second place if he is wrong." I took that to mean that he could get the DD wrong and still guarantee second place. I don't think the above numbers bear that out.
OntarioQuizzer wrote:(also note, most importantly: you are not 0% to win if you get the Daily Double right on either bet, so saying he is jeopardizing his chance at a win is horribly wrong.)
To me "jeopardizing" means "putting at risk," "reducing his chance." Is that not how you took it? Again, I get the feeling that you think I said his wager gave him zero chance of winning.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:54 pm

Belt is slang for liquor? Between that and temporarily failing to process "sander" as a word, I was lost.

WLT King Arthur or cloned in the top box?

I couldn't think of a word to pair with chortle because I was wondering what word ended in -ortle.

Game 7 was an absolute YEKIOYD category. Map of Science seemed pretty TOM-free too.

Haggis is a pudding?!

Canoodle was a NHOI, so I was 4/5 in the OO.

No guess on FJ! This seemed way too wide open to tackle. NHO the correct response.
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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:16 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:No guess on FJ! This seemed way too wide open to tackle. NHO the correct response.
This time I'll allow your usual verbiage, as it did seem to be an obscure clue, I"m guessing under 25% get rate on this one.
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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Category 13 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:24 pm

No chance for me on this FJ. Never been a fan of theatre, and Cabaret is at or near the top of the heap for shows I would have absolute zero interest in watching.
I guessed Yul Brynner 'just to have something'.

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Elijah Baley » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:46 pm

Category 13 wrote:No chance for me on this FJ. Never been a fan of theatre, and Cabaret is at or near the top of the heap for shows I would have absolute zero interest in watching.
I guessed Yul Brynner 'just to have something'.
Other than being one of the best musicals ever made, I can see why it would have no interest.

Unless one really hates musicals, I guess. :D

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Re: Friday, November 25, 2016 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:52 pm

dhkendall wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:No guess on FJ! This seemed way too wide open to tackle. NHO the correct response.
This time I'll allow your usual verbiage, as it did seem to be an obscure clue, I"m guessing under 25% get rate on this one.
If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly it's 3/8 so far on posts here for 37.5% so I'll bet the over.

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