Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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IronNeck
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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:18 am

Volante wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 pm

Now you're just TPHing a counter argument.

I don't know the book (nor am I omniscient) but I've got a pretty good grasp on the machinations of J! writers when they pitch the clue from the knuckles. They wouldn't have used the subtitle of the book the way they did and expect us to take it at face value. There was a subtlety they wanted us to latch on.

So nyah!
Yeah, this is unnecessarily rude and dismissive. Especially when your reasoning for guessing correctly on the coin flip is "I can read the minds of the Jeopardy writers!" ("I know how this particular coin will land!")

Props to those that got Switzerland, but short of reading the book, which I assume no one here did, you won a 50-50.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:22 am

hbomb1947 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:58 pm
Volante wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:41 pm
Volante wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:34 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:14 pm


How could you possibly "definitively rule out" Israel?
The pun was an obvious twist on "land of milk and honey," ergo it was -not- the land of milk and honey, i.e., Israel.
The fact that it was a twist in no way "rules out" Israel unless you're omniscient or already familiar with the book. The title could easily have been an updated take on "milk and honey" to take account of Israel's booming start-up economy. See, e.g., https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbeh ... 1305c1a519

A quote from this Forbes article: "Much has been made of Israel's status as 'Startup Nation.' Not even the size of New Jersey, with a population smaller than New York City's, Israel is home to more Nasdaq-listed companies than any country except the U.S. and China. On a per capita basis Israel boasts more venture capital, more startups and more scientists and tech professionals than any other country in the world."

So yeah, for those of us who had an inkling of Israel's pre-eminence in this area (which has a lot to do with "money"), that country could hardly be ruled out, to say the least.
Now you're just TPHing a counter argument.

I don't know the book (nor am I omniscient) but I've got a pretty good grasp on the machinations of J! writers when they pitch the clue from the knuckles. They wouldn't have used the subtitle of the book the way they did and expect us to take it at face value. There was a subtlety they wanted us to latch on.

So nyah!
Shame on you for dismissing the thought process of intelligent contestants and boardies as "TPHing a counter-argument." There's a reason Alex anticipated a "trap" in this neg-baity clue.
You asked, I answered. So maybe I can't explain it as (apparently) diplomatically or as clearly as I'd like, but I could still tell with absolute certainty from the writing it wasn't Israel.

And while I can't recall any specific examples, I'm also certain Alex has precalled FJ traps that contestants don't end up falling for.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:24 am

IronNeck wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:18 am
Volante wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 pm

Now you're just TPHing a counter argument.

I don't know the book (nor am I omniscient) but I've got a pretty good grasp on the machinations of J! writers when they pitch the clue from the knuckles. They wouldn't have used the subtitle of the book the way they did and expect us to take it at face value. There was a subtlety they wanted us to latch on.

So nyah!
Yeah, this is unnecessarily rude and dismissive. Especially when your reasoning for guessing correctly on the coin flip is "I can read the minds of the Jeopardy writers!" ("I know how this particular coin will land!")

Props to those that got Switzerland, but short of reading the book, which I assume no one here did, you won a 50-50.
If I could read their minds, I would've gotten it right, so I'm not that good...

...yet 8-)

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by floridagator » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:29 am

I'm with Volante that the clue was obviously not going for Israel. I recognize the sobriquet as referring to Israel, and that is exactly why a pun on it would not. I came up with Switzerland instantly, and even used the skip button on my DVR to go straight to the reveal.

My real question for the game is why no BMS on Daley. Richard M served longer than Richard J.
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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:47 am

I tried to focus on "milk" and think of countries known for their cows. India was all I could pull up, and I couldn't really find a reason for "money" to work except a very generic economic sense. Then I started thinking of offshore banking, but I could only specifically think of the Cayman Islands, which aren't a country. I couldn't imagine there was an island nation known for banks and cattle, but I couldn't get myself back to a mainland to find a banking country.

One of the games I saw in the studio as an alternate had a final wager that the player made mistaking someone else's score for his. (However, he would have lost no matter what he wagered, and he would have finished in third place anyway if he had wagered what I would have in his position.) I wondered if that happened to Elspeth.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:49 am

Category 13 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:27 pm
So if the your in second place, and the leader has to bet xxxxx to lock you out, what makes you think you're going to beat him if you wager the exact same amount as him?
Witchcraft?
Deborah really fell behind in this game but recovered enough to be in striking distance at the last DD. Good thing she didn't use Iron Neck's wagering advice and bet it all. Now she gets to come back and play another game
As already stated, in this situation it's either $5 or everything dependent on category. $2000 is flat out bad strategy. And you know as well as any that the result of one trial means nothing, it's either a good or bad wager regardless of result.
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:47 am
One of the games I saw in the studio as an alternate had a final wager that the player made mistaking someone else's score for his. (However, he would have lost no matter what he wagered, and he would have finished in third place anyway if he had wagered what I would have in his position.) I wondered if that happened to Elspeth.
You know, that's a helluva good thought. I can see it due to the transposition of the leaderboard.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am

WLT Wells Fargoat $200?

Also, WLT river at $200? There are lots of things that you can't step into twice, and I saw nothing suggesting that it could even be a form of water.

Asking for the objective case of something was stupid-obscure for $200. I honestly didn't know "cases" were a thing in grammar, despite reading lots and lots of grammar books. Then I tried to learn them in German, only to realize I didn't know them in English. I still don't know what the cases are and I've looked them up.

NHO "Mont Blanc" either.

That "royal" category was completely arbitrary too.

That "giants" clue was also stupid obscure for $400. Can we poll it?

It would've been nice if Alex had EXPLAINED the "Hidden Legends" category so that $400 wasn't a stand and stare.

Lach trash: Hedgerow, clipper

No guess on FJ! None of the words in the clue seemed to point anywhere.
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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:32 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
Also, WLT river at $200? There are lots of things that you can't step into twice, and I saw nothing suggesting that it could even be a form of water.
There's only one famous quote saying "You can't step in the same ____ twice."
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
NHO "Mont Blanc" either.
Yeah?
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
It would've been nice if Alex had EXPLAINED the "Hidden Legends" category so that $400 wasn't a stand and stare.
He had.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:18 am

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:32 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
Also, WLT river at $200? There are lots of things that you can't step into twice, and I saw nothing suggesting that it could even be a form of water.
There's only one famous quote saying "You can't step in the same ____ twice."
But if you've never heard that saying before, then there are hundreds of things that you could theoretically not step in twice.
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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Kenny » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:22 am

The photo of a white, snow-covered mountain should've been an obvious clue for Mont Blanc (but I still didn't get it). I can't believe people are saying Switzerland was a 50-50 guess for FJ. Come on, cheese, milk chocolate, banks. It was pretty obvious. Why it was a TS baffles me.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:36 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:18 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:32 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
Also, WLT river at $200? There are lots of things that you can't step into twice, and I saw nothing suggesting that it could even be a form of water.
There's only one famous quote saying "You can't step in the same ____ twice."
But if you've never heard that saying before, then there are hundreds of things that you could theoretically not step in twice.
If you've never heard that saying before, then you are Not J! Contestant Material

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Robert K S » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:15 pm

Ignore lists don't work well with all this quoting going on. I thought we had agreed to keep all this stuff to a single thread.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ElendilPickle » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:57 pm

I thought of Israel right away because of the Bible verse, but realized that didn't make sense and went to the right answer within a couple of seconds.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:29 pm

I can't believe I'm the first to post this -
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/16/busin ... money.html
The phrase is also the title of a novel about Portuguese immigrant farmers in California, and an Economist story about tainted milk in China.
"Milk and Honey" is not just a Bible verse, it's an old Broadway musical that takes place in the modern state of Israel. So I thought the clue was just punning on that usage. Judging from some responses in the thread, it's not so known a phrase that I could discount that the pun's remove was only one level...I don't associate Switzerland with milk, myself. They have to process it first.... :D

I would have gotten the clue about Bismarck if I'd ever heard "Chancellor" referred to as a "prefix" before...And I still don't know what the Royal Opera House had to do with that category... :?:

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by cheezguyty » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:53 pm

davey wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:29 pm
I would have gotten the clue about Bismarck if I'd ever heard "Chancellor" referred to as a "prefix" before...And I still don't know what the Royal Opera House had to do with that category... :?:
http://www.theartsdesk.com/opera/whats- ... pera-house

(I didn't understand the category either until I found this article — how silly of me to expect that the responses in ROYAL OPERA HOUSE TITLES would be titles of operas!)

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by theamazingchong » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:08 am

cheezguyty wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:53 pm
davey wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:29 pm
I would have gotten the clue about Bismarck if I'd ever heard "Chancellor" referred to as a "prefix" before...And I still don't know what the Royal Opera House had to do with that category... :?:
http://www.theartsdesk.com/opera/whats- ... pera-house

(I didn't understand the category either until I found this article — how silly of me to expect that the responses in ROYAL OPERA HOUSE TITLES would be titles of operas!)
I was similarly confused as well. Seems like the writers were getting cute. :roll:

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:10 am

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:36 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:18 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:32 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 am
Also, WLT river at $200? There are lots of things that you can't step into twice, and I saw nothing suggesting that it could even be a form of water.
There's only one famous quote saying "You can't step in the same ____ twice."
But if you've never heard that saying before, then there are hundreds of things that you could theoretically not step in twice.
If you've never heard that saying before, then you are Not J! Contestant Material
I'm with TPH here. I didn't know that quote.

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by twelvefootboy » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:42 am

Robert K S wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:15 pm
Ignore lists don't work well with all this quoting going on. I thought we had agreed to keep all this stuff to a single thread.
English, please. And yes, I quoted you because I think the little bubbles help keep the message coherent. I'm not good enuf to organize bubbles from different posts, and butcher them somewhat.

I watched this game just now. For the poll takers, as a non-trivia person, I was able to get to Switzerland with a ton of doubt. Everything else was 1.5 tons and even the USA was on the table because, well, Wisconsin, Wall Street, etc.. England was a contender, as was Holland, but then, why not France before I pivoted to Switzerland but never did make the banking connection until after time, but before the reveal. Israel and Middle East never entered the equation because, cows? in the desert - probably not so much.

Apologies, Robert K - I asked for explanation and rambled on to game discussion. I want to respect the etiquettes and protocols.
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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by hbomb1947 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:48 am

twelvefootboy wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:42 am
Israel . . . never entered the equation because, cows? in the desert - probably not so much.
http://www.israeldairy.com/cgi-webaxy/i ... dustry.htm

It's not like the entire country of Israel is desert ...

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Re: Friday, April 14, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:55 am

twelvefootboy wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:42 am
Robert K S wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:15 pm
Ignore lists don't work well with all this quoting going on. I thought we had agreed to keep all this stuff to a single thread.
English, please. And yes, I quoted you because I think the little bubbles help keep the message coherent. I'm not good enuf to organize bubbles from different posts, and butcher them somewhat.

I watched this game just now. For the poll takers, as a non-trivia person, I was able to get to Switzerland with a ton of doubt. Everything else was 1.5 tons and even the USA was on the table because, well, Wisconsin, Wall Street, etc.. England was a contender, as was Holland, but then, why not France before I pivoted to Switzerland but never did make the banking connection until after time, but before the reveal. Israel and Middle East never entered the equation because, cows? in the desert - probably not so much.

Apologies, Robert K - I asked for explanation and rambled on to game discussion. I want to respect the etiquettes and protocols.
Pretty sure Robert K was referring to people quoting TPH, who he likely has on ignore. Also, cows were not mentioned in the FJ clue.

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