Friday, April 28, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[John Boy]

I got a phone call during the last commercial break and missed the sweepstakes password anyone want to share it with me?

You answer the phone during J!??? Where are your priorities, man?

[John Boy]

For Final Jeopardy I immediately thought of the Communist Manifesto and then realized the tone wasn't alarmist enough and changed it to the Wealth of Nations. I wasn't sure but I got it.

For the second time this week my coin-toss failed me on FJ. Passed on Wealth of Nations and wrote down Communist Manifesto. I need a new coin.

[twelvefootboy]

Way to go Alan!

While I appreciate his intellect and his gamecraft, I've been having trouble getting on the Alan train as a non-charismatic champion to me. I can't pinpoint it, but it kind of seemed like his trivia ability is too studied and artificial.

This is true of the vast majority of super-champions, especially younger ones. (6-day champion Pranjal, who I liked a lot, comes to mind) Even older contestants who genuinely know a lot of fields/categories from personal interest get the bulk of their trivia knowledge from heavy studying and memorization.

How does he know "I am the Walrus" for example?

This one he could well have known this outside of any study, given the popularity of the Beatles and works referencing theri songs.

I dunno. Of course it could be first hand knowledge, but this clue/answer coming clinically from a young whippersnapper who "probably" isn't into nostalgic music resonated with me. It's only fair play if he is stuck with "I Am the Walrus", and "I am the Egg Man" earworm for a few days. Of course, I don't get "Claire de Lune" or whatever stuck in my brain even though I might know it as a response. So, I would post again when I lose that earworm, but then that would just bring it back dammit...

[TenPoundHammer]

I've heard "I Am the Walrus" several times, but even with "I Am" staring me in the face, I couldn't pull it.

I swear, I'm having way too many brainfarts for someone who's only 30.

[brick]

I got a phone call during the last commercial break and missed the sweepstakes password anyone want to share it with me?

You answer the phone during J!??? Where are your priorities, man?

It was my only child. And it was during a commercial!

[brick]

In one of those weird coincidences that I think many Jeopardy watchers experience (see also "Slumdog Millionaire" moments) I am streaming old seasons of Amazing Race... and the contestants are bog snorkeling! What are the odds?

[hbomb1947]

If I had gotten The Call after early-June 2016 and for a tape date before Rachel's, she would not have been the first J! contestant who'd been to North Korea.

Congrats to Alan on locking up his TOC spot. Very impressive, especially to end up with a lock after his initial DD miss (not sure why he wagered $4K on that one instead of the full $4,400, BTW). Is it too early to start considering whether he's a "gold" or a "silver"? Acknowledging that his run is still ongoing, right now he looks to me like a gold.

I had Communist Manifesto for FJ after changing my response from The Wealth of Nations. Not having read the former since college, I didn't remember the tone or opening line to enable me to rule it out.

Paging MarkBarrett: Poll question(s) requested for those who responded with Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital.

I've lived in NYC for over 20 years and I NHO the Easter bonnet parade. Googling tells me it's relatively informal compared to the parades I'm familiar with like the Puerto Rican Day Parade and the St. Patrick's Day Parade. It has also declined greatly in attendance over the decades.

[brick]

If I had gotten The Call after early-June 2016 and for a tape date before Rachel's, she would not have been the first J! contestant who'd been to North Korea.

Congrats to Alan on locking up his TOC spot. Very impressive, especially to end up with a lock after his initial DD miss (not sure why he wagered $4K on that one instead of the full $4,400, BTW).

I had Communist Manifesto for FJ after changing my response from The Wealth of Nations. Not having read the former since college, I didn't remember the tone or opening line to enable me to rule it out.

Paging MarkBarrett: Poll question(s) requested for those who responded with Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital.

I've lived in NYC for over 20 years and I NHO the Easter bonnet parade. Googling tells me it's relatively informal compared to the parades I'm familiar with like the Puerto Rican Day Parade and the St. Patrick's Day Parade. It has also declined greatly in attendance over the decades.

As I understand it, it is not technically a parade in the traditional sense. It is, or at least was, the gathering of people along 5th Avenue to see what the wealthy and fashionable attendees of the big churches there wore to church on Easter Sunday.

Possibly I am the only one here who knows most of the score of the 1948 film by that name, starring Judy Garland and Fred Astaire. I am almost certain I am the only one who was singing it in their local pub last week.

[IronNeck]

I certainly do have sources...a number of Russian history books I've read on the subject!

I'd be happy with one specific source. I don't rely on my own memory, I'd rather not rely on yours.

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

I dunno. Of course it could be first hand knowledge, but this clue/answer coming clinically from a young whippersnapper who "probably" isn't into nostalgic music resonated with me. It's only fair play if he is stuck with "I Am the Walrus", and "I am the Egg Man" earworm for a few days. Of course, I don't get "Claire de Lune" or whatever stuck in my brain even though I might know it as a response. So, I would post again when I lose that earworm, but then that would just bring it back dammit...

Eh, I'm not that much older than Alan and I would have gotten that one easily enough. The Beatles are a band that even the young folks of today (and not just hipsters!) are perfectly familiar with.

[dhkendall]

I certainly do have sources...a number of Russian history books I've read on the subject!

I'd be happy with one specific source. I don't rely on my own memory, I'd rather not rely on yours.

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

I would think Russian books, especially ones from the Communist era, might have a bit of a bias to not present it as fact. To what end, I don't know, but combining their penchant for propaganda and their veneration of the work, I am more prone to go with the above quoted source. Could it be biased too? Possibly. But it'd be foolish to blindly think that because it's yours it isn't

[dhkendall]

...
The FJ! clue was a classic 50/50/90 for me as I thought of Rachel's incorrect response first and the correct response second. It's not as if I've read either thing, so that was not going to help in knowing the first line. Both responses are perfectly fair for the FJ! round, so no help there. I did not know how to properly tip the scale one way or the other, so I went with "nation" already in the wording to go the other and wrong way.

I started from the same initial spot, but changed it because of the tone of the quote. Only after the change did I get a whiff of confirmation from the spelling of the word "labour".

See, had I noticed that (my Canadian-ness probably had it sail over my head), I'd've dismissed WoN because for some reason I think if Smith (and his work) as American.

[davey]

I certainly do have sources...a number of Russian history books I've read on the subject!

I'd be happy with one specific source. I don't rely on my own memory, I'd rather not rely on yours.

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

I would think Russian books, especially ones from the Communist era, might have a bit of a bias to not present it as fact. To what end, I don't know, but combining their penchant for propaganda and their veneration of the work, I am more prone to go with the above quoted source. Could it be biased too? Possibly. But it'd be foolish to blindly think that because it's yours it isn't

Thanks, David. I'm more interested in evidence than what any of us "believes." A Soviet source would be better than none.

[IronNeck]

I certainly do have sources...a number of Russian history books I've read on the subject!

I'd be happy with one specific source. I don't rely on my own memory, I'd rather not rely on yours.

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

I would think Russian books, especially ones from the Communist era, might have a bit of a bias to not present it as fact. To what end, I don't know, but combining their penchant for propaganda and their veneration of the work, I am more prone to go with the above quoted source. Could it be biased too? Possibly. But it'd be foolish to blindly think that because it's yours it isn't

The "above quoted source" davey used is from from a Wiki on a small trivia website. Not only is not a serious source, it's a non-source. Which is partly why davey demanding serious historical sources from me was so utterly ridiculous.

Incidentally, said Wiki appears to simply be a copy-and-paste job from Wikipedia. Only it's interesting that davey left out a rather relevant portion;

Further, Engels himself wrote in 1883 that "The basic thought running through the Manifesto ... belongs solely and exclusively to Marx." Although Laski doesn't disagree, he suggests that Engels underplays his own contribution with characteristic modesty, and points out the "close resemblance between its substance and that of the [Principles of Communism]".

Hmmm...according to Engels himself, it was Marx's ideas (as I wrote originally), yet Engels is still credited as a co-writer. And a serious historian and Labor leader points out the similarity of The Communist Manifesto to one of Engel's own works.

Now why would davey leave this out (he quoted the portions both before and after it) if he was genuinely interested in historical truth instead of an Internet argument? Then again, this is the same guy who extensively contended that Aretha Franklin, at 74 and in ill health, is as good a singer as she was in her 20s and 30s.

Which is the other reason I don't take his demands seriously.

On a separate note, it's laughable to claim Russian books are biased while believing Wikipedia editors (of which I am one myself) are shining, unimpeachable examples of virtue. At least I'm aware of the former's bias; you seem unaware of the latter's.

I would vastly prefer a Russian textbook from Soviet times on communist history over something that a random Wikipedia editor cooked up. (And make no mistake, coming to a topic with a ready-made viewpoint, finding 1 "source" that backs it up, while ignoring the 10 that don't is very easy. I see it all the time as an editor)

[Cat Hammarskjold]

I have a feeling that there have been contestants that have walked around the table at P'yanmunjom, which would technically put you in North Korea, right? If not, there would've probably been some veteran of the Korean War who was beyond the final DMZ when the UN forces made their big push.

[AFRET CMS]

Possibly I am the only one here who knows most of the score of the 1948 film by that name, starring Judy Garland and Fred Astaire. I am almost certain I am the only one who was singing it in their local pub last week.

Sorry I wasn't in the pub to join in. I was singing it in my living room while Rachel was thinking, hoping she'd heard me.

[davey]

I linked to that source because it is footnoted, but yes, it is a version of what's on Wikipedia, and no, I haven't consulted the underlying sources. I also looked at 2 Marx biographies and an Engels biography online without finding anything suggesting that the Manifesto was "actually written" by Engels, though his importance in it is not controversial, I think. I understand this is far from exhaustive.
Interesting that (if we're trusting the source now) Laski, in the part I didn't quote, says "substance" is indebted to Engels. I thought we were discussing "style." (Engels was the skillful, persuasive writer among the duo, while Marx was a poor author, but came up with more of the ideas.)
I have no ax to grind on this topic. I just continually wonder when people assert, while unwilling to bring evidence.

[AFRET CMS]

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

Might be a tad touchy -- I often ask for sourcing, not because I disbelieve the statement, but simply because I'm interested in learning more and would like to see what else the source has to say on the subject.

[IronNeck]

Then don't believe me. Treat it as a lie and continue believing Marx solely wrote The Communist Manifesto despite Engels being credited as a co-writer, it including all of Marx's own ideas, and the huge difference between the writing style for that and Das Kapital. I don't care.

Might be a tad touchy -- I often ask for sourcing, not because I disbelieve the statement, but simply because I'm interested in learning more and would like to see what else the source has to say on the subject.

One is typically a bit suspicious of such requests for evidence to begin with, this being an informal message board, not a scholarly journal, and the statement being a qualitative (not quantitative) one that no living human can possibly know for certain either way.

This is compounded when the person dishonestly quotes from a Wikipedia article, intentionally omitting a portion that casts doubt on their assertions. And is made worse when he hasn't bothered to read the two works in question, which have obvious differences in style. Or even mentions that aspect. And one can dismiss it with a clean conscience when recalling this same person argued a 74 year-old woman in poor health sings at a comparable level to what she did in her 20s and 30s.

Under different circumstances, however, I would extend an interlocutor the benefit of the doubt.

[hbomb1947]

I have a feeling that there have been contestants that have walked around the table at P'yanmunjom, which would technically put you in North Korea, right? If not, there would've probably been some veteran of the Korean War who was beyond the final DMZ when the UN forces made their big push.

That first part is likely (not sure how many Korean war vets would have made it onto the Trebek version of J!, and any of those would probably have been in the earlier years due to their ages, and in any case Alex I think was impliedly talking about people who've visited as a tourist); but Rachel (and I if I ever get chosen as a contestant) would apparently be the only 2 contestants who've actually visited DPRK outside of the DMZ.

[brick]

Possibly I am the only one here who knows most of the score of the 1948 film by that name, starring Judy Garland and Fred Astaire. I am almost certain I am the only one who was singing it in their local pub last week.

Sorry I wasn't in the pub to join in. I was singing it in my living room while Rachel was thinking, hoping she'd heard me.

That would have been great! Singing Chief Master Sgts are my favorite kind!