Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by skullturf » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:12 pm

xxaaaxx wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:34 pm
Shaka, when the walls fell? I wonder how many people at home got that reference. I was speechless watching it live :D
They also snuck the word "trek" into one of the Shaka clues, and I feel like that must have been deliberate.

I managed to get this FJ without too much trouble, but these "think on your feet" FJs can be very troublesome if your mind doesn't happen to wander the right way early, and I've definitely missed my share of similar clues.

It takes time to even process the clue in the first place. Once I had processed it, my thoughts were "Okay, I know Europe better than Africa, so I'll start there." I thought about Liechtenstein and Austria, but once I noticed that Switzerland ends in "land" I realized that was probably it.

Even though Europe has several other landlocked countries, the area around Switzerland is a pretty natural place to start.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Elijah Baley » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:16 pm

dhkendall wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:19 pm
"Doggie" for "dogie"? :evil: :evil: :evil: Was really expecting a neg on that one.
Elijah Baley wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 pm
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:55 pm
Elijah Baley wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:30 pm
Wait; so the Foreign Service guy missed a FJ based on geography?? Talk about someone who is going to have a rough day at the office tomorrow!

And it was pretty close to instaget on FJ - once you considered the possibilities for those last 4 letters.
Pat yourself on the back, then, because frankly, this was a TOUGH Final Jeopardy clue. Big kudos to Kelly for getting this. I thought it had a really good chance of being a Triple Stumper.
I think it looked like a devilish FJ clue, and I'm not saying that it was easy. In fact, it would have been pretty hopeless to try to think through the nearly 100 countries involved. It's really just a matter of whether it occurred to think about those last 4 letters and whether "land" was one of the first things that popped into mind. From the comments, I think it will poll fairly decently.
There aren't nearly 100 landlocked countries - a vast majority of the approximately 200 countries in the world have a coast. There are only approximately 50 landlocked countries (depending on your definition of country), for the purposes of this clue: 13 landlocked UN members are in Europe (excluding the Transcaucusus region) and 10 in Africa, so 23 to choose from to compare names with. For some reason I thought Europe had less, went there, started with Switzerland, and finished before Alex finished reading the clue. I think also my head being in the space of Southern Africa from the SHAKA category helped too.

I'll admit that luck was involved in my getting it, particularly in starting with Switzerland, but even if Switzerland was the last of the 23 I considered (or second last if Swaziland was last) I think I probably would have had time enough to get it, especially when thinking of countries with similar names, there aren't many (Australia/Austria, Malawi/Mali, Niger/Nigeria, Slovakia/Slovenia, Republic of Congo/Democratic Republic of Congo, Mauritania/Mauritius, Dominica/Dominican Republic, Guinea/Guinea-Bissau/Equatorial Guinea/Papua New Guinea/Guyana, and Switzerland/Swaziland. Let me know if I missed any).
Yes, if you have a map of Europe and Africa in your head and/or you can immediately call to mind just the landlocked countries, that would help considerably in trying to match them all up. I have a feeling that just going through the exercise of coming up with the landlocked countries would take most people at least the 30 seconds - and you've still got to write down two long country names. So, my point is really just that either you seize upon the last 4 letters and get it right away - or you're probably going to run out of time because of the number of countries on the two continents.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:23 pm

boson wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm
However, that seems like a really good reason to appeal the result and be brought back for another game. What does the boardie jury think?
This Boardie thinks that tonight's result is consistent with the rules as set out by the show and which all contestants agree to participate by. (Not that I personally agree with the rule and think this would be a perfect opportunity to change the rule, which is a different debate.)
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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:27 pm

xxaaaxx wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:34 pm
Shaka, when the walls fell? I wonder how many people at home got that reference. I was speechless watching it live :D
Temba, his arms wide.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:45 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:23 pm
boson wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm
However, that seems like a really good reason to appeal the result and be brought back for another game. What does the boardie jury think?
This Boardie thinks that tonight's result is consistent with the rules as set out by the show and which all contestants agree to participate by. (Not that I personally agree with the rule and think this would be a perfect opportunity to change the rule, which is a different debate.)
If anyone knows Scott then tell him to file an appeal since the worst the powers can do is deny it. Yes, by the rules Kelly did nothing wrong and won the game. That's all fine and I would not want to see the FJ! round begin with Scott getting his money back while Kelly loses her $1200. All of a sudden the game becomes a runaway when after the DJ! round there was at least a chance for all three players to win.

J! needs to be played at proper pace as much as possible, so it would not be good to have many stoppages each time a contestant gives something unexpected. The judges check on such things as the game moves along and will stop at a DD point if need be or between rounds.

If Scott did show up in S34 we would know the reason why as it seems pretty clear that if his double envelopment was accepted without the rebound opportunity then that's the game for him.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:53 pm

I didn't know what "double envelopment" meant, but it sounded so specific and it looked like it fit the diagram, so I was surprised it was ruled wrong in the first place.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:57 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:23 pm
boson wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm
However, that seems like a really good reason to appeal the result and be brought back for another game. What does the boardie jury think?
This Boardie thinks that tonight's result is consistent with the rules as set out by the show and which all contestants agree to participate by. (Not that I personally agree with the rule and think this would be a perfect opportunity to change the rule, which is a different debate.)
This is one area where they've been consistent in applying rules through the years. (Unlike spelling). If a player is ruled wrong on an alternate response and another player grabs a rebound, the rebounder gets to keep the money after they credit the first person is ruled correct. But if a rebounder is just plain wrong, they get their money back.

I agree it is unfair and he has reason to appeal, but if Scott never returns, I wouldn't be surprised.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by hbomb1947 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:18 pm

Near-instaget FJ. It helped that Switzerland was one of my precalls during the commercial break. The first country that popped into my mind when the clue was revealed was Lesotho, but it was immediately clear that wasn't going to lead anywhere. Then I went to Switzerland, and Swaziland immediately followed.

I have long felt that the rule that people who got money on rebounds get to keep their money when a preceding neg is reversed is unfair. But I don't feel that's grounds for bringing Scott back, since it was an application of the show's long-standing rule that resulted in him not having a lock game. I do hope the rule gets changed going forward, though.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by morbeedo » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:35 pm

LT: Verdi, Gena Rowlands

I think I left a letter out of consanguinity

Missed Rossini and Vivaldi and no, I'm not happy about it

Rich upped his pocket square game tonight with a more relaxed fold. Fabric looked like a ball of flame tucked into his jacket pocket

3/3 DD and FJ in 90 seconds. Instead of trying to randomly match countries I shoulda focused on "last 4 letters"

I think it's weird to have Mozart come up in "OZ" when there's a separate composers category

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vowela » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:38 pm

I feel the situation is unfair no matter what they do. I understand the current rules are unfair to Scott in this situation, but penalizing Kelly when she'd done nothing wrong wouldn't've really been fair to her. Either way, someone's getting the short end of that stick. Just an unfortunate lose-lose situation however they handle it, barring a better third option I'm overlooking, at least.

For whatever it's worth, I didn't get FJ!. Pretty much agree that it would've been easy if I had like five minutes, but it's tricky to work out in thirty seconds if the right countries don't come to you fast enough.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Ironhorse » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:45 pm

I nearly instagot the FJ. I started mentally running through a map of Europe and the first landlocked country I thought of going left to right was Switzerland.

I second the questioning of what took so long to accept the answer of "Mozart".

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by hbomb1947 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm

Vowela wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:38 pm
I feel the situation is unfair no matter what they do. I understand the current rules are unfair to Scott in this situation, but penalizing Kelly when she'd done nothing wrong wouldn't've really been fair to her. Either way, someone's getting the short end of that stick. Just an unfortunate lose-lose situation however they handle it, barring a better third option I'm overlooking, at least.
It's not penalizing Kelly to take away money she never would have had a chance to ring in for if Scott's response, which the judges determined to be acceptable, had been credited initially. There's nothing unfair to the rebound beneficiary (or -ies) of changing the scores to be as if the player whose neg is overturned was given the money when first stating the response.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:52 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:35 pm
I think it's weird to have Mozart come up in "OZ" when there's a separate composers category
The nonzero number of confused viewers thinking that Mozart was now Italian is probably also proof that this was not the best idea.
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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Vowela » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm
Vowela wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:38 pm
I feel the situation is unfair no matter what they do. I understand the current rules are unfair to Scott in this situation, but penalizing Kelly when she'd done nothing wrong wouldn't've really been fair to her. Either way, someone's getting the short end of that stick. Just an unfortunate lose-lose situation however they handle it, barring a better third option I'm overlooking, at least.
It's not penalizing Kelly to take away money she never would have had a chance to ring in for if Scott's response, which the judges determined to be acceptable, had been credited initially. There's nothing unfair to the rebound beneficiary (or -ies) of changing the scores to be as if the player whose neg is overturned was given the money when first stating the response.
"If" is the important word. If Scott's response had been credited initially, she wouldn't have had a chance to ring in. But it wasn't, and she did. Whether or not she should've had the opportunity to ring in, she did have the opportunity to ring in, and it's not fair to penalize her after the fact.

And I understand that the current situation was unfair to Scott. I just don't think there is any way to resolve the situation that would been fair to both of them.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by hbomb1947 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:09 pm

Vowela wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm
Vowela wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:38 pm
I feel the situation is unfair no matter what they do. I understand the current rules are unfair to Scott in this situation, but penalizing Kelly when she'd done nothing wrong wouldn't've really been fair to her. Either way, someone's getting the short end of that stick. Just an unfortunate lose-lose situation however they handle it, barring a better third option I'm overlooking, at least.
It's not penalizing Kelly to take away money she never would have had a chance to ring in for if Scott's response, which the judges determined to be acceptable, had been credited initially. There's nothing unfair to the rebound beneficiary (or -ies) of changing the scores to be as if the player whose neg is overturned was given the money when first stating the response.
"If" is the important word. If Scott's response had been credited initially, she wouldn't have had a chance to ring in. But it wasn't, and she did. Whether or not she should've had the opportunity to ring in, she did have the opportunity to ring in, and it's not fair to penalize her after the fact.

And I understand that the current situation was unfair to Scott. I just don't think there is any way to resolve the situation that would been fair to both of them.
I don't think the word "penalize" means what you think it means. And yes, treating the situation as if Scott had been credited with the correct response in the first place, rather than allowing his opponent to benefit from the judging error, is fair to all players.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by nlw44 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:11 pm

As Elijah Baley discussed above, having time to write down - legibly - these two relatively long country names means you have significantly less than 30 seconds to actually come up with the answer. Anything that requires significant writing is, to my mind, a pretty tough FJ, regardless of subject. Being able to type the answer rather than having to hand-write it would help immensely. I get that TPTB obviously prefer the personal touch of handwriting, but I'd like to see them try some of these long ones themselves.

And as an aside, The NYT Clue of the Day never became available to me today, no matter what time of day I looked or how many times I reloaded the page, which means I had to play this one for "real,' meaning during the game. It was easy enough to run through most if not all of the landlocked countries during the commercial break, but even so, I only came up with the answer close to the end of the think music. And it was only because I was typing into my computer that I got it down. If I'd been a player in studio? I don't know.
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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Category 13 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:21 pm

I hate it when they come back from the last commercial break and announce a scoring change. It balls up my wagering tabulations so I have to watch the reveal before I know what each contestant needs to wager.
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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Category 13 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 pm

Vowela wrote:I just don't think there is any way to resolve the situation that would been fair to both of them.
My solution would be either:
a) allow him to be re-scheduled for another game
b) adjust his winnings to $21,400 as if he'd had a lock and bet zero
He chooses which settlement. Or maybe they need to combine both.
Last edited by Category 13 on Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:33 pm

nlw44 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:11 pm
And as an aside, The NYT Clue of the Day never became available to me today, no matter what time of day I looked or how many times I reloaded the page, which means I had to play this one for "real,' meaning during the game.
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Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:36 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:23 pm
boson wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm
However, that seems like a really good reason to appeal the result and be brought back for another game. What does the boardie jury think?
This Boardie thinks that tonight's result is consistent with the rules as set out by the show and which all contestants agree to participate by. (Not that I personally agree with the rule and think this would be a perfect opportunity to change the rule, which is a different debate.)
Absolutely, it's consistent. My issue with it is this: there was definitely a jump cut after his response. I'm guessing with near certainty that this was to review his response. If they didn't deem it acceptable then, why would they go check some more later? If you've ruled. stick with the ruling.

For FJ, I thought of Switzerland, but completely forgot about Swaziland, so I wasn't ever going to get this one.

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