Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, econgator, dhkendall, trainman

User avatar
Volante
Harbinger of the Doomed Lemur
Posts: 5063
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:42 pm

Golf wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:18 pm
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:55 pm
Pat yourself on the back, then, because frankly, this was a TOUGH Final Jeopardy clue. Big kudos to Kelly for getting this. I thought it had a really good chance of being a Triple Stumper.
Well, it's actually a very easy clue given 5 minutes. But yeah, it's not that easy in 30 seconds.
You don't get five minutes for FJ! so...unsure why this had to be pointed out? I mean, writing the alphabet in order five times in five minutes would also be very easy; not so much in 30 seconds.

I figured it out around the 10 second mark, had about 5 to spare after the scribbling.

MattKnowles
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:33 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MattKnowles » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:54 pm

Final Jeopardy was an instaget. As long as the rules are clear and applied consistently there is nothing unfair. It would be unfair to inconsistently apply the rules to alleviate some perceived wrong.

I got 31R. I said "bella canto" instead of "bel canto." I'll do better on that one next time. I missed Masada completely even though I had read about that before. I missed Jericho too, that was an easy one.

There were a lot of tough clues on today's show and the contestants ran through everything. They all knew a lot of stuff and played really well. The Woman in the Movie category was pretty bad for me. I need to work on that. I think I'll be ok if they have the category: Movies with Robots and Explosions.
I had a dream that I was asleep and then I woke up and Jeopardy! was on.

Golf
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1305
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:59 pm

xxaaaxx wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:34 pm
Scott should've bet more on his DD. He also should've had a lock, if they hadn't negged him and given Kelly the chance at the rebound. I'm annoyed.

Shaka, when the walls fell? I wonder how many people at home got that reference. I was speechless watching it live :D
I picked myself up off the floor about 3 questions in, have no clue what they were nor do I care. Still laughing. And sadly, have answered many trivia questions regarding Gilgamesh and Inkydu over the years solely from Darmok. Most recently in Buzztime about a month ago regarding what tome the great bull of heaven appeared.

Since others have discussed it, I approached FJ a bit differently than others. Many years back memorized the 14 landlocked African countries from North to South. Since then Ethiopia and South Sudan have been added to the list to get 16 total. Since Swaziland is basically the southernmost it took 10 seconds or so to get there, then make the connection and write both down in less than 20 seconds. Some could have answered quicker than this, but I knew it was a foolproof way for me to get to the answer.

I've always disliked the fact that when a ruling is reversed, it truly is not if somebody gets a rebound from a wrong answer that turns out to be correct. Granted it's the rules, and it's consistent, but that doesn't make it right. It shouldn't make a difference if it changes the game result, but it makes it more pronounced and shows it's failings.

Temba, at rest. For tonight anyway. :D

nlw44
Swimming in the Jeopardy! Pool
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:30 pm
Location: Harwich, MA

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by nlw44 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:13 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:33 pm
nlw44 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:11 pm
And as an aside, The NYT Clue of the Day never became available to me today, no matter what time of day I looked or how many times I reloaded the page, which means I had to play this one for "real,' meaning during the game.
Does The Jeopardy! Fan link work for you? https://thejeopardyfan.com/

That has the category, clue and correct response available each game morning with player results & stats posted later.

The Reddit guy has video links: https://www.reddit.com/user/jibjabjrjr

Those appear at varying times.

On this board TheFJGuy posts FJ! category, clue, correct response, player results, and a few stats in the third box of each game thread with it usually appearing shortly after the Archivists begin the daily thread.
I didn't think about those two websites, although I have used reddit a couple of times to watch the game when I've missed the broadcast for some reason or other. Usually using the Jeopardy! official site is fine, since I also play J6 in the mornings and look at the old FJ! loop for a few clues. Honestly, it's better for me to have to actually play FJ in real time now and then, if only to prove to myself that I still can do it.
"And has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

Lewis Carroll, "Jabberwocky"

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2467
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm

Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:45 pm
I nearly instagot the FJ. I started mentally running through a map of Europe and the first landlocked country I thought of going left to right was Switzerland.

I second the questioning of what took so long to accept the answer of "Mozart".
Some bozo put Berlioz on Alex's card... ;)

If I'd thought of land for the last 4 letters I would probably have headed right. Otherwise, not getting it. I don't have landlocked countries memorized... :roll:
Never thought I'd sweep a category on Shaka...with Kelly's response, not Scott's...Must say though I love the movie with Barbara Stanwyck and Fred McMurray!... :lol:

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 4532
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:09 am

I guessed "pincer" on the controversial Shaka clue. Since the "flanking maneuver" Wikipedia page has "pincer movement" under the "See Also" heading, and the article for "pincer movement" says it's also known as "double envelopment," I think I'm good.
I've hidden some rambling about old rulingsShow
Arianna Kelly played two games a few months apart in 2008; she lost the first, and was invited back over a bad ruling. (Between those games, her sister Larissa had much better fortune on the show.)

The clue in question was for $800, and basically asked what metal in so-called tin cans is attracted by magnets; Arianna rang in with "What is iron?" and Alex asked her to be more specific, so she said iron ore and Alex said no. Returning champ Melissa Prusi rebounded by responding, "What is steel?" and got the $800.

Arianna entered FJ in third place, $2,200 behind Melissa. FJ was a triple get, but the player in the lead didn't cover Melissa (I don't think he covered Arianna either, but she hadn't wagered enough to surpass his final score), and Melissa won.

Now, I've always assumed that they knew before FJ that Arianna should have gotten credit for "iron" off the bat. The assumption that follows is that they didn't bother reversing the neg because Melissa's ill-gotten lead would have remained intact, so they decided to wait for the endgame to play itself out, and determine from that whether a change in position would have won Arianna the game. (This theory that they were waiting to see if the ruling error would cost her the game also would go a long way to explain why Arianna came back to the show so soon, since it usually seems to take a season for wronged contestants to return.)

But now that we've had a scoring reversal that retroactively allowed the second correct response to break a lock that the first one ought to have earned, I don't think my idea that TPTB would say, "Well, we screwed the pooch on that ruling and can't truly fix it by undoing the neg, so we'll just see what happens and act on it only if it affects the results," holds much water.

I do think Scott should be brought back, though. TPTB have never claimed that their neg-reversal method sets things right to a point that no further action is necessary.

On the contrary, I offer the example of Milo Dochow, who played in the first Teen Tournament of 1999. He went TDD on the first DJ DD, was asked for a star, named for a subatomic particle, that contained dense material, guessed "quark star," and dropped from $1,900 to zero (with neutron star being the desired response). He fought his way back up to second place by the end of DJ, and then was told before FJ that "quark star" was deemed acceptable, and that $3,800 swing put him in the lead. However, writing "Meditterean Sea" and betting to cover second place put him out of a wild card spot.

Now, J! Archive's player pages on Milo say he was brought back for the College Championship a year later "because of a disputed ruling during Final Jeopardy!", but I don't buy it. I think he was brought back because, in clawing back after zeroing out on that DD, he hit the last one and doubled up from $1,200. If the first DD ruling had been overturned at the point of uncovering that one, he could have gotten to a position for FJ where he could win or finish with a wild card notwithstanding his misspelling. To put it briefly: TPTB probably brought Milo back because he may have lost due to untimely acceptance of his response. We can say the latter clause for Scott, minus "may have" and with a narrow definition of "less than immediate" for "untimely."

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 5107
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:45 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:21 pm
What was with the long pause for Mozart being accepted?
Alex was thinking, that can't be right. Mozart wasn't an Italian composer.

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 5107
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:55 am

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:09 am
I guessed "pincer" on the controversial Shaka clue. Since the "flanking maneuver" Wikipedia page has "pincer movement" under the "See Also" heading, and the article for "pincer movement" says it's also known as "double envelopment," I think I'm good.
I said pincer as well. So I'm biased, but I agree.

BKavett
Just Starting Out on JBoard
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BKavett » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:13 am

I am absolutely terrible at geography (probably my worst category other than sports) yet I got the FJ almost instantly. My mind just immediately went "last 4 letters" -> "land" -> European country w/ "land"= Switzerland-> I think Swaziland is a place I've heard of? Wasn't even sure if they were landlocked or not.

Add me to those wondering about the weird pause after "Mozart."

User avatar
TenPoundHammer
Not J! Contestant Material
Posts: 5638
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:13 am

I said "pincer" too because someone used that term when trying to teach me how to play Enter the Gungeon.
Ten Pound Hammer

This space for rent

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:20 am

hbomb1947 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm
Vowela wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:38 pm
I feel the situation is unfair no matter what they do. I understand the current rules are unfair to Scott in this situation, but penalizing Kelly when she'd done nothing wrong wouldn't've really been fair to her. Either way, someone's getting the short end of that stick. Just an unfortunate lose-lose situation however they handle it, barring a better third option I'm overlooking, at least.
It's not penalizing Kelly to take away money she never would have had a chance to ring in for if Scott's response, which the judges determined to be acceptable, had been credited initially. There's nothing unfair to the rebound beneficiary (or -ies) of changing the scores to be as if the player whose neg is overturned was given the money when first stating the response.
It's not penalizing her, but her total could potentially affect subsequent game play if she had uncovered a DD. I would imagine that's why the rule is what it is.

I don't know if anyone else was like me on FJ, but it took me a few extra seconds because I sort of figured they wouldn't have us go to south Africa right after the Shaka category. Once I thought of Switzerland, though, it became obvious. Still had plenty of time to write it down.

User avatar
flutist319
Contributor
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:21 am

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by flutist319 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:52 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:21 pm
What was with the long pause for Mozart being accepted?
Maybe Alex was under the impression for a few seconds that he would need to prompt for a first name, due to potential confusion with Wolfgang's totally-top-box-material father Leopold? :lol:

(I instagot FJ, but last week's TD being fresh in my memory may have primed me.)

User avatar
Cat Hammarskjold
Feline Secretary-General
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:35 am

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Cat Hammarskjold » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:53 am

I'm probably the only person who thinks that Monday's FJ was insanely hard and Tuesday's FJ belonged on Kids' Week.
I identify as a Jeopardy! fan, and use who/what pronouns.

User avatar
morbeedo
Swimming in the Jeopardy! Pool
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by morbeedo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:34 am

Cat Hammarskjold wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:53 am
I'm probably the only person who thinks that Monday's FJ was insanely hard and Tuesday's FJ belonged on Kids' Week.
Oh yeah.

Video Games was a nightmare

heppm01
Contributor
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:30 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by heppm01 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:20 am

I have a dim recollection of a game some time in the last four to six weeks with a miss->rebound miss->correction situation. Player A ruled incorrect and player B missed the rebound. Player A was later credited with a correct response and his/her score adjusted, but they also adjusted the score for player B, returning the money they had lost on the miss. I recall AT saying something like "since player B would not have had a chance to respond if we ruled player A initially correct, we are returning the money".

Am I misremembering this?
Isn't this inconsistent with how they rule in cases where player B gives a correct response?

Bamaman
Also Receiving Votes
Posts: 8237
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:54 am

heppm01 wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:20 am
I have a dim recollection of a game some time in the last four to six weeks with a miss->rebound miss->correction situation. Player A ruled incorrect and player B missed the rebound. Player A was later credited with a correct response and his/her score adjusted, but they also adjusted the score for player B, returning the money they had lost on the miss. I recall AT saying something like "since player B would not have had a chance to respond if we ruled player A initially correct, we are returning the money".

Am I misremembering this?
Isn't this inconsistent with how they rule in cases where player B gives a correct response?
That is exactly what they do. If Rich had rung in after Scott with a wrong question, they'd have given him back his $1,200 but Kelly still keeps hers.

User avatar
dhkendall
Pursuing the Dream
Posts: 8220
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dhkendall » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:09 am

davey wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm
Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:45 pm
I nearly instagot the FJ. I started mentally running through a map of Europe and the first landlocked country I thought of going left to right was Switzerland.

I second the questioning of what took so long to accept the answer of "Mozart".
Some bozo put Berlioz on Alex's card... ;)
Some bozo *answered* Berlioz!

(Me. The bozo is me. I answered "Berlioz" is what I'm saying.)
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

User avatar
hbomb1947
Still hoping to get on Jeopardy! while my age is in double digits
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by hbomb1947 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am

dhkendall wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:09 am
davey wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm
Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:45 pm
I nearly instagot the FJ. I started mentally running through a map of Europe and the first landlocked country I thought of going left to right was Switzerland.

I second the questioning of what took so long to accept the answer of "Mozart".
Some bozo put Berlioz on Alex's card... ;)
Some bozo *answered* Berlioz!

(Me. The bozo is me. I answered "Berlioz" is what I'm saying.)
You have company in that bozo department . . . :oops:

User avatar
twelvefootboy
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Tornado Alley / Southwest Missouri

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by twelvefootboy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:05 am

BKavett wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:13 am
I am absolutely terrible at geography (probably my worst category other than sports) yet I got the FJ almost instantly. My mind just immediately went "last 4 letters" -> "land" -> European country w/ "land"= Switzerland-> I think Swaziland is a place I've heard of? Wasn't even sure if they were landlocked or not.
Count me in with the newbie at stinking at maps. But Switzerland is the Pavlov for landlocked (and mountain locked) countries from 4th grade. I didn't think about maps at all, I just worried that Switzerland is too obvious, and I wasn't sure that Swaziland is (still) a real thing. It sounds a little too Colonial, but it fit the alphabet. So it was instaget from the precall, and then time to fret about it being too easy. Ignorance was our friend for a question like this.

I went at it like a crossword puzzle. Two letters = too many options for the front; four letters on the back - "land" or "stan". Didn't think there would be many "stans" in Africa, and nothing else came to mind as a generic 4-letter syllable.

I missed the show, but from the discussion, count me on the side of TPTB about the ruling and the rules. Just get FJ right dammit, and bet it correctly 8-)
- All science is either physics or stamp collecting. - Ernest Rutherford -

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:09 am

I just realized there was also a question about Mozambique yesterday, so there were a lot of clues dealing with southern Africa.

African geography is tough because there are so many countries, but I always remember the exact locations of Swaziland and Lesotho because they are the two countries surrounded by South Africa. Lesotho is a true enclave-- it is completely surrounded by SA. Swaziland is almost completely surrounded by South Africa, but does have a border with Mozambique. If you know these facts Lesotho and Swaziland are pretty easy to identify on a map.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot], mujason, OrangeSAM, Yahoo [Bot] and 26 guests