Discussion about old games in the Archive

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alietr
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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by alietr » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:02 pm

econgator wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:10 pm
Sounds like a YEKIOYD to me.
Everything in life is YEKIOYD.
I keep hoping for the day when he will add something to the discussion.

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by dhkendall » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:45 pm

badgerfellow wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:05 am
JeuParti wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:35 pm
Hi all,

I found this rather tough Final Jeopardy in a 1989 game:

FAMOUS NAMES:
His father, whose first & middle names were also Charles Augustus, was a Minnesota congressman

http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=4931

It was a triple stumper and I'm wondering, without spoiling by providing the response, how we were supposed to find the correct response based on the limited information provided? Just thought I'd ask if anyone sees more of a lead into a response here than I do. Thanks!
SpoilerShow
Lindbergh is a well known Minnesotan. In fact, one of the terminals at Minneapolis-St. Paul International is named after him. If you piece together "Minnesota" + "Charles", you get to Lindbergh. This is one, though, that could lend itself to overthinking if you think a pseudonym is needed here.
SpoilerShow
As Mark Barrett pointed out, Charles + Minnesota is much more likely to bring up Schulz than Lindbergh: referred to as “Charles” more than Lindbergh (who is usually referred to now by last name), heck his most famous creation (somewhat arguably) is also a Charles; also Schulz is more popular now than Lindbergh, especially moreso in 1989 when he was still active!

I’m with some of the others in that it’s a bit more of a YEKIOYD, remembering Lindbergh’s given names. (“Charles Augustus” rang a bell, but I couldn’t remember which one.)
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by opusthepenguin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:22 pm

econgator wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:10 pm
Sounds like a YEKIOYD to me.
Everything in life is YEKIOYD.
I did not know that!

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by JeuParti » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:51 pm

Hi everyone,

I recently found a couple of old Jeopardy games from 1990 where Jeopardy referred to Tibet as a "country". Given that Tibet has been a region of China since the middle of the 20th century (though disputed by some), can someone explain to me if, and why, it is correct for Jeopardy to have referred to Tibet as a country back in 1990? Perhaps someone could explain the intricacies here as I've done some research and read that the UN does not dispute China's authority over Tibet. Those two games and the specific questions are reproduced below. Thanks for your help!

1-

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_ ... ight=tibet

WORLD GEOGRAPHY $400: The highest airport in the world is Lhasa Airport in this country

Response: Tibet

2-

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_ ... ight=tibet

MOUNTAINS $1000: Mount Everest is located on an undemarcated border between these 2 countries

Response: Nepal and Tibet

MinnesotaMyron
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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:00 pm

I suppose googling "Is Tibet a country?" was out of the question, huh?

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by Bamaman » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:02 pm

alietr wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:02 pm
econgator wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:04 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:10 pm
Sounds like a YEKIOYD to me.
Everything in life is YEKIOYD.
I keep hoping for the day when he will add something to the discussion.
930847FA-4FF1-4C5C-9D7D-B25AFA075EAC.jpeg
930847FA-4FF1-4C5C-9D7D-B25AFA075EAC.jpeg (179.21 KiB) Viewed 510 times
Complete the List champion, Episode 12.

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by MattKnowles » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 pm

JeuParti wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:51 pm
I recently found a couple of old Jeopardy games from 1990 where Jeopardy referred to Tibet as a "country". Given that Tibet has been a region of China since the middle of the 20th century (though disputed by some), can someone explain to me if, and why, it is correct for Jeopardy to have referred to Tibet as a country back in 1990?
Jeopardy! probably wouldn't refer to Tibet as a country today and I'm not really sure why they did in 1990. So you have a good question and if somebody has a definite answer I'd be interested in learning more.

There's a debate about Tibetan sovereignty here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_s ... nty_debate

There's an article about the Tibetan Government in Exile here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_T ... nistration

Both articles shed a little bit more light on the subject but it looks like the Tibetan Government in Exile is a group outside Tibet which claims Chinese occupation is illegitimate. This group receives funding from the US federal government but the official US stance also seems to be that Tibet is part of China. It looks like the US stance has shifted towards being more favorable to China over time.

Jeopardy! usually considers borders according to the US viewpoint. So for example Crimea is definitely part of Ukraine and Taiwan is definitely an independent country. If Jeopardy! considered other viewpoints these and other points could be different.

So to answer your question it looks like there was a sentiment in 1990 that Tibet was an independent country and those clues haven't really stood up to the test of time.
I had a dream that I was asleep and then I woke up and Jeopardy! was on.

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by Foretopman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:10 am

Strictly speaking, Jeopardy didn't refer to Tibet as a country. It was the contestants who said Tibet; Jeopardy merely accepted that as a valid response. I'm sure they would have accepted China as well.

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by opusthepenguin » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:38 pm

JeuParti wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:51 pm
I recently found a couple of old Jeopardy games from 1990 where Jeopardy referred to Tibet as a "country".
Those are really interesting finds. I remember scoffing at a contestant response not too long ago because the clue asked for a country and the contestant guessed Tibet.

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_ ... ardy_round

That also happened back in 2015.

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_ ... ardy_round

In neither case would Tibet have been correct even if Tibet were a full UN-recognized independent country. There have been several other cases where Tibet has been offered as a response, but it was simply wrong, regardless of its political status. Alex has never commented on those wrong responses.

Here's are a couple of clues showing that the writers/judges back in the early days considered Tibet a non-independent "country" that is part of China, perhaps similar to the way England is one of the "countries" of the UK:

1988 - $200 WORLD POLITICS: This country, part of China since 1951, has been the scene of recent anti-Chinese demonstrations

1989 - $200 WORLD GEOGRAPHY :Tho its country is no longer independent, the World Book calls it the 2nd highest capital in the world

These are around the same time they were accepting Tibet as a response. So the policy back then appears to be, YOU can call it a country, but WE won't--at least not without a disclaimer.

And check out this FJ from 2001: The world's highest airport is found in this Asian political region of 472,000 square miles -- Regarding the clue, Alex offers the following remark: "Even though 'Jeopardy!' is not carried in this country, obviously, we do not want to offend the people in one of the world's great countries." I assume the "country" he means is China. Do I detect a bit of editorializing on Alex's part? I wonder if he thinks they're being unnecessarily cautious.

There's also the $200 HIGH-"T" clue in 2008: Formerly an independent country, this region of China is known as the "Roof of the World"

And there's the $400 CHINESE REGIONAL CAPITALS clue in 2006: This city is the capital of the high-altitude autonomous region that until 1965 was its own country.

So here's the takeaway:

1) Jeopardy! has never called Tibet a country without clarifying that it's a non-independent part of China.

2) Alex has never corrected a contestant who wrongly guessed Tibet by pointing out that Tibet is not technically a country

3) Way back when, they twice accepted (expected?) responses of Tibet when asking for a country, but we don't know whether they would still accept such responses. My guess is they have deliberately avoided forcing the issue.

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by dhkendall » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm

Bamaman wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:02 pm
ALIETR WAITING ON TPH TO LEARN SOMETHING WATCHING JEOPARDY
He looks pretty thankful that he's expired.
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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by dhkendall » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:03 pm

MattKnowles wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 pm
Jeopardy! usually considers borders according to the US viewpoint. So for example Crimea is definitely part of Ukraine and Taiwan is definitely an independent country. If Jeopardy! considered other viewpoints these and other points could be different.
While it definitely seems that Jeopardy! does indeed recognize Taiwan as an independent country (didn't look for specific examples, but I'm sure they're easy to find), I wish to point out that the official stance of the US government is that Taiwan is part of China - the People's Republic will not allow relations with any country that recognizes Taiwan. Some poor Pacific islands (and elsewhere in the world) recognize Taiwan in exchange for Taiwanese dollars for infrastructure, etc. (only to switch when China offers more, etc.) but on the whole most countries, including the US, recognize the People's Republic as the sole China, which it has done since Nixon switched recognition in the 70s. Granted, the US does have a "Taiwan Office" or something like that, that acts as an "unofficial embassy" - on the way home from work I pass by a building as the bus goes through Chinatown with a Kuomintang flag out front (i.e. the flag of Taiwan) that I'm sure must be an "unofficial consulate" here. But they are not official embassies or consulates because we don't recognize Taiwan as a country.
"Jeopardy! is two parts luck and one part luck" - Me

"The way to win on Jeopardy is to be a rabidly curious, information-omnivorous person your entire life." - Ken Jennings

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Re: Discussion about old games in the Archive

Post by Volante » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:01 pm

dhkendall wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:03 pm
MattKnowles wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 pm
Jeopardy! usually considers borders according to the US viewpoint. So for example Crimea is definitely part of Ukraine and Taiwan is definitely an independent country. If Jeopardy! considered other viewpoints these and other points could be different.
While it definitely seems that Jeopardy! does indeed recognize Taiwan as an independent country (didn't look for specific examples, but I'm sure they're easy to find), I wish to point out that the official stance of the US government is that Taiwan is part of China - the People's Republic will not allow relations with any country that recognizes Taiwan. Some poor Pacific islands (and elsewhere in the world) recognize Taiwan in exchange for Taiwanese dollars for infrastructure, etc. (only to switch when China offers more, etc.) but on the whole most countries, including the US, recognize the People's Republic as the sole China, which it has done since Nixon switched recognition in the 70s. Granted, the US does have a "Taiwan Office" or something like that, that acts as an "unofficial embassy" - on the way home from work I pass by a building as the bus goes through Chinatown with a Kuomintang flag out front (i.e. the flag of Taiwan) that I'm sure must be an "unofficial consulate" here. But they are not official embassies or consulates because we don't recognize Taiwan as a country.
On the other hand, Made in Taiwan is TAA compliant, Made in China is not. :roll:

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