TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 pm 11. Bonus (-3 points) - name a USDA grade of beef other than prime, choice, or select.

[*]Cutter
[*]Canner
Thank you for giving me Canner Cutter -- It was the way I learned it but may have to do with the stockyard classification on the hoof. I do like the wrong responses though!
SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 pm 12. Bonus (-3 points) - 3 prime jersey numbers that Deion "Prime Time" Sanders could have worn in the NFL at his position.


Wrong answers (10-yard penalty and an automatic first down for everyone else):
MattKnowles (31, 37, 39)
oduguy22 (83, 87, 89)
twelvefootboy (23, 27, 29)
At least the two other composite numbers were respectably trickymisses. But 9 X 3 - ugh!! And I've been studying the Riemann Hypothesis (a real significant math staple regarding number theory) recreationally for two years! I knew the 40's was the only decade with 3 primes in it but got distracted by the 20's that Deion wore.

Surprisingly, my nonagon mental arithmetic error only cost me 3 points as it turned into the sheep answer. I assume we aren't allowed calculators for these quizzes, but this was just a brain fart.

Thank you for the quiz. I think everybody liked half of the questions as being clever and unique, and that's a pretty good outcome.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by SenseiCAY »

twelvefootboy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm
SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 pm 12. Bonus (-3 points) - 3 prime jersey numbers that Deion "Prime Time" Sanders could have worn in the NFL at his position.


Wrong answers (10-yard penalty and an automatic first down for everyone else):
MattKnowles (31, 37, 39)
oduguy22 (83, 87, 89)
twelvefootboy (23, 27, 29)
At least the two other composite numbers were respectably trickymisses. But 9 X 3 - ugh!! And I've been studying the Riemann Hypothesis (a real significant math staple regarding number theory) recreationally for two years! I knew the 40's was the only decade with 3 primes in it but got distracted by the 20's that Deion wore.
Don’t the 70s have three primes? 71, 73, 79
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by floridagator »

Thanks for hosting this fun TD. I'm happy to be co-champion with someone so cool. That was the first time I ever made a wrong answer in TD, so it's humbling. It was also humbling that I didn't recognize Paul Molitor.

May I make one suggestion... How you do the reveal is entirely up to you, but I hope you didn't think you had to do it so quickly. Last TD I hosted, I think I revealed a question every 16 hours, which let interest in the game go on for nearly a week.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by MattKnowles »

twelvefootboy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm
SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 pm
Wrong answers (10-yard penalty and an automatic first down for everyone else):
MattKnowles (31, 37, 39)
oduguy22 (83, 87, 89)
twelvefootboy (23, 27, 29)
At least the two other composite numbers were respectably trickymisses.
Yes, I submitted a set of answers that included 39 as a prime number. My excuse is that I had a bucket on my head while I was typing.

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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by SenseiCAY »

floridagator wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:07 pm May I make one suggestion... How you do the reveal is entirely up to you, but I hope you didn't think you had to do it so quickly. Last TD I hosted, I think I revealed a question every 16 hours, which let interest in the game go on for nearly a week.
I didn’t feel like I had to rush it, but I wrote some code that scored it pretty quickly, so I went ahead and revealed. I’ll probably leak it a bit slower next time...I guess I got excited for my first time :mrgreen:
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 pm
Don’t the 70s have three primes? 71, 73, 79
Ramanujan, I'm not :?
I tested mentally up through the sixties and down through the eighties and lost my place :roll:

I've encountered a lot of attention span mistakes since my age became the smallest number to be both a perfect square and a perfect cube. I posted this riddle in a game thread on my birthday, but what is the next smallest number to be a perfect square and cube (assume I'm not one year old)? Bonus, what is the smallest perfect square, cube, and fourth power (edit - this is called the zenzizenzic per wiki)?
Spoiler
me = 2**6 = 64 , next perfect cube/square = 3**6 = 729, first perfect square/cube/zenzizenzic = 2**12 = 4096. apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Now the wait for what I screwed up with this posting :).
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by SenseiCAY »

twelvefootboy wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am
apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Ooh, story time!

I taught Fortran in college to students who generally had little programming experience and needed one computer science class to graduate. Technically, I was a TA, but most of the learning of Fortran actually happened in the lab, which I taught. My favorite thing was when the professor offered an automatic A in the class to anyone who could write a Sudoku solver in Fortran. Hearing about this challenge and being pretty good at coding, I gave it a shot, reading the puzzle through a text file, putting it into some 4-D arrays and running it through a recursive subroutine, and I actually got pretty close, writing about 200 lines of code during my spare time over the course of a week or so. If I worked on it for a semester, I might have finished it.

The topic of our first lab lesson, naturally, was read(*,*) and write(*,*) statements, so that the students could make their programs write "hello world" to the screen, and take in some user input. We introduced the concept of variables here. The topic of our second lecture was if-then-else statements and boolean logic.

This genius in my class decides, at that point, that this is enough for him to write the Sudoku solver, and that he'd rather stake his grade on one challenge of an assignment than hedge his bets and do the rest of the work in the class to earn whatever grade that would earn him.

Three quarters of the way through the semester, he calls me over to his workstation, asking for help. I assumed that he was working on that week's assignment (we were probably working on modules or functions or subroutines at that point). Nope. I look at his screen, and he has a monstrous set of if-statements in his editor. He had about 3000 lines of code at that time. He had 81 variables, called A1, A2, A3, ..., A9, B1, ..., B9, and so on, and the first section of his program was 81 prompts and read statements to read in the values of each of the cells individually. After that, it was all if-statements. His if-statements each took up about 8 lines on the screen (which was technically one line of code). What he was doing was, for each cell, manually checking, for example, if any of the other 20 squares in its row, column, or sub-square were equal to 2, 3, 4, etc., all the way to 9. If all of those were true, then he'd know that the square being checked must be a 1. He did that for every square, for every number 1-9. No loops. No arrays. No functions. No subroutines.

To his credit, his program somehow got all but 2 squares of an example input correct, but that wasn't good enough. His final grade in the class was about a 20%.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by acthomas »

SenseiCAY wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:54 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am
apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Ooh, story time!

I taught Fortran in college to students who generally had little programming experience and needed one computer science class to graduate. Technically, I was a TA, but most of the learning of Fortran actually happened in the lab, which I taught. My favorite thing was when the professor offered an automatic A in the class to anyone who could write a Sudoku solver in Fortran. Hearing about this challenge and being pretty good at coding, I gave it a shot, reading the puzzle through a text file, putting it into some 4-D arrays and running it through a recursive subroutine, and I actually got pretty close, writing about 200 lines of code during my spare time over the course of a week or so. If I worked on it for a semester, I might have finished it.

The topic of our first lab lesson, naturally, was read(*,*) and write(*,*) statements, so that the students could make their programs write "hello world" to the screen, and take in some user input. We introduced the concept of variables here. The topic of our second lecture was if-then-else statements and boolean logic.

This genius in my class decides, at that point, that this is enough for him to write the Sudoku solver, and that he'd rather stake his grade on one challenge of an assignment than hedge his bets and do the rest of the work in the class to earn whatever grade that would earn him.

Three quarters of the way through the semester, he calls me over to his workstation, asking for help. I assumed that he was working on that week's assignment (we were probably working on modules or functions or subroutines at that point). Nope. I look at his screen, and he has a monstrous set of if-statements in his editor. He had about 3000 lines of code at that time. He had 81 variables, called A1, A2, A3, ..., A9, B1, ..., B9, and so on, and the first section of his program was 81 prompts and read statements to read in the values of each of the cells individually. After that, it was all if-statements. His if-statements each took up about 8 lines on the screen (which was technically one line of code). What he was doing was, for each cell, manually checking, for example, if any of the other 20 squares in its row, column, or sub-square were equal to 2, 3, 4, etc., all the way to 9. If all of those were true, then he'd know that the square being checked must be a 1. He did that for every square, for every number 1-9. No loops. No arrays. No functions. No subroutines.

To his credit, his program somehow got all but 2 squares of an example input correct, but that wasn't good enough. His final grade in the class was about a 20%.
I'm impressed he got so close, but horrified that if he'd paid only a little attention to the lectures, he could have pulled it off.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by Woof »

SenseiCAY wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:54 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am
apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Ooh, story time!

I taught Fortran in college to students who generally had little programming experience and needed one computer science class to graduate. Technically, I was a TA, but most of the learning of Fortran actually happened in the lab, which I taught. My favorite thing was when the professor offered an automatic A in the class to anyone who could write a Sudoku solver in Fortran. Hearing about this challenge and being pretty good at coding, I gave it a shot, reading the puzzle through a text file, putting it into some 4-D arrays and running it through a recursive subroutine, and I actually got pretty close, writing about 200 lines of code during my spare time over the course of a week or so. If I worked on it for a semester, I might have finished it.

The topic of our first lab lesson, naturally, was read(*,*) and write(*,*) statements, so that the students could make their programs write "hello world" to the screen, and take in some user input. We introduced the concept of variables here. The topic of our second lecture was if-then-else statements and boolean logic.

This genius in my class decides, at that point, that this is enough for him to write the Sudoku solver, and that he'd rather stake his grade on one challenge of an assignment than hedge his bets and do the rest of the work in the class to earn whatever grade that would earn him.

Three quarters of the way through the semester, he calls me over to his workstation, asking for help. I assumed that he was working on that week's assignment (we were probably working on modules or functions or subroutines at that point). Nope. I look at his screen, and he has a monstrous set of if-statements in his editor. He had about 3000 lines of code at that time. He had 81 variables, called A1, A2, A3, ..., A9, B1, ..., B9, and so on, and the first section of his program was 81 prompts and read statements to read in the values of each of the cells individually. After that, it was all if-statements. His if-statements each took up about 8 lines on the screen (which was technically one line of code). What he was doing was, for each cell, manually checking, for example, if any of the other 20 squares in its row, column, or sub-square were equal to 2, 3, 4, etc., all the way to 9. If all of those were true, then he'd know that the square being checked must be a 1. He did that for every square, for every number 1-9. No loops. No arrays. No functions. No subroutines.

To his credit, his program somehow got all but 2 squares of an example input correct, but that wasn't good enough. His final grade in the class was about a 20%.
Although I deplore his arrogance, this is pretty much the hacker mindset: solve a task using whatever tools are at hand (let me say at this point that I've written ~50K lines of debugged Fortran code in my time so I'm not defending his ignorance of the language). My acme (or nadir, depending upon perspective) was, in 1976, writing a working version of the Tank video game on a Z-80 processor that had been donated to my HS in raw machine language using nothing but peek and poke commands. A glorious waste of time, but I learned a lot in that exercise.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

MattKnowles wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:40 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm
SenseiCAY wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 pm
Wrong answers (10-yard penalty and an automatic first down for everyone else):
MattKnowles (31, 37, 39)
oduguy22 (83, 87, 89)
twelvefootboy (23, 27, 29)
At least the two other composite numbers were respectably trickymisses.
Yes, I submitted a set of answers that included 39 as a prime number. My excuse is that I had a bucket on my head while I was typing.

Image
Which begs the question that maybe a TD historian can answer -- has a wrong answer ever been the sheep?
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

Woof wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 pm
SenseiCAY wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:54 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am
apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Ooh, story time!

I taught Fortran in college to students who generally had little programming experience and needed one computer science class to graduate. Technically, I was a TA, but most of the learning of Fortran actually happened in the lab, which I taught. My favorite thing was when the professor offered an automatic A in the class to anyone who could write a Sudoku solver in Fortran. Hearing about this challenge and being pretty good at coding, I gave it a shot, reading the puzzle through a text file, putting it into some 4-D arrays and running it through a recursive subroutine, and I actually got pretty close, writing about 200 lines of code during my spare time over the course of a week or so. If I worked on it for a semester, I might have finished it.

The topic of our first lab lesson, naturally, was read(*,*) and write(*,*) statements, so that the students could make their programs write "hello world" to the screen, and take in some user input. We introduced the concept of variables here. The topic of our second lecture was if-then-else statements and boolean logic.

This genius in my class decides, at that point, that this is enough for him to write the Sudoku solver, and that he'd rather stake his grade on one challenge of an assignment than hedge his bets and do the rest of the work in the class to earn whatever grade that would earn him.

Three quarters of the way through the semester, he calls me over to his workstation, asking for help. I assumed that he was working on that week's assignment (we were probably working on modules or functions or subroutines at that point). Nope. I look at his screen, and he has a monstrous set of if-statements in his editor. He had about 3000 lines of code at that time. He had 81 variables, called A1, A2, A3, ..., A9, B1, ..., B9, and so on, and the first section of his program was 81 prompts and read statements to read in the values of each of the cells individually. After that, it was all if-statements. His if-statements each took up about 8 lines on the screen (which was technically one line of code). What he was doing was, for each cell, manually checking, for example, if any of the other 20 squares in its row, column, or sub-square were equal to 2, 3, 4, etc., all the way to 9. If all of those were true, then he'd know that the square being checked must be a 1. He did that for every square, for every number 1-9. No loops. No arrays. No functions. No subroutines.

To his credit, his program somehow got all but 2 squares of an example input correct, but that wasn't good enough. His final grade in the class was about a 20%.
Although I deplore his arrogance, this is pretty much the hacker mindset: solve a task using whatever tools are at hand (let me say at this point that I've written ~50K lines of debugged Fortran code in my time so I'm not defending his ignorance of the language). My acme (or nadir, depending upon perspective) was, in 1976, writing a working version of the Tank video game on a Z-80 processor that had been donated to my HS in raw machine language using nothing but peek and poke commands. A glorious waste of time, but I learned a lot in that exercise.
Oh, what memories -- I loved the Z-80 assembly language set; it was almost miraculous how a compiled assembly language program would run on a TRS-80 instead of going through the BASIC interpreter. I got an "A" in an early class by writing an unbeatable Tic-Tac-Toe program with full-screen graphics for a TRS-80 with 4K of memory. The BASIC version would have had the graphics crawling across the screen as they were being drawn; after the compiling the assembly language, they blinked on almost instantly. Magic! I think I may have paid $15 for the assembler (on an audio cassette). Learned a lot from it.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

SenseiCAY wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:54 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am
apologies for old fortran exponentiation format, just a habit of an old goat
Ooh, story time!

I taught Fortran in college to students (...)

Nope. I look at his screen, and he has a monstrous set of if-statements in his editor. He had about 3000 lines of code at that time. He had 81 variables, called A1, A2, A3, ..., A9, B1, ..., B9, and so on, and the first section of his program was 81 prompts and read statements to read in the values of each of the cells individually. After that, it was all if-statements. His if-statements each took up about 8 lines on the screen (which was technically one line of code). What he was doing was, for each cell, manually checking, for example, if any of the other 20 squares in its row, column, or sub-square were equal to 2, 3, 4, etc., all the way to 9. If all of those were true, then he'd know that the square being checked must be a 1. He did that for every square, for every number 1-9. No loops. No arrays. No functions. No subroutines.
Great story! In some ways, that is a little too close to home, but thankfully I'm far too impatient to stick that out. An early adopter co-worker tried to impress me with a checkbook balancing program from his Heath kit computer in the pre-PC era. I just chuckled at the time it took to use. I'd like to see your student try his Soduku hack with keypunch cards from the Fortran IV days. I rarely say this, but thank you, Bill Gates :lol: .
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by econgator »

Woof wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 pm Although I deplore his arrogance, this is pretty much the hacker mindset: solve a task using whatever tools are at hand (let me say at this point that I've written ~50K lines of debugged Fortran code in my time so I'm not defending his ignorance of the language). My acme (or nadir, depending upon perspective) was, in 1976, writing a working version of the Tank video game on a Z-80 processor that had been donated to my HS in raw machine language using nothing but peek and poke commands. A glorious waste of time, but I learned a lot in that exercise.
Peek and Poke ... good times, good times...
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by Woof »

econgator wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:40 pm
Woof wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 pm Although I deplore his arrogance, this is pretty much the hacker mindset: solve a task using whatever tools are at hand (let me say at this point that I've written ~50K lines of debugged Fortran code in my time so I'm not defending his ignorance of the language). My acme (or nadir, depending upon perspective) was, in 1976, writing a working version of the Tank video game on a Z-80 processor that had been donated to my HS in raw machine language using nothing but peek and poke commands. A glorious waste of time, but I learned a lot in that exercise.
Peek and Poke ... good times, good times...
Since I had no storage medium beyond volatile RAM, I had to code it in anew whenever we wanted to play a game. A HS friend of mine, now sadly dead from cancer, posted to my FB page last year to tell me that he regaled his own son with this story, to what end I never did figure out.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by clt013 »

AFRET CMS wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:26 pm Which begs the question that maybe a TD historian can answer -- has a wrong answer ever been the sheep?
Question #5 of TD 352 had 14 people submit the same incorrect answer - which was far more than the correct "sheep' response of 2.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by ElendilPickle »

:o Thanks, SenseiCAY, for a great TD!
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by SenseiCAY »

ElendilPickle wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:37 pm :o Thanks, SenseiCAY, for a great TD!
Glad you enjoyed it, and congratulations!
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (BONUS RESULTS AND FINAL STANDINGS)

Post by RandyG »

clt013 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:04 pm
AFRET CMS wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:26 pm Which begs the question that maybe a TD historian can answer -- has a wrong answer ever been the sheep?
Question #5 of TD 352 had 14 people submit the same incorrect answer - which was far more than the correct "sheep' response of 2.
To answer the original question: that's happened many times.

But the one question that stands out to me as the oddest was from a few years ago where every player scored a zero. It was a ridiculously obscure question where nobody had it correct, so the sheep was 0; a wrong answer was scored as a multiple of the sheep, hence also 0; drops were 0; and SHEEP answers were also 0.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by Sherm »

SenseiCAY wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:51 pm 5) Number and name required. Name a PRIME NUMBER, and the U.S. PRESIDENT associated with that number in the chronological order of U.S. Presidents as of the time of this game (wrong answers in the expected format might include “1, Washington,” since 1 is not a prime number, or “16, Obama,” because Obama was not the 16th U.S. President, nor is 16 a prime number). Non-consecutive terms by the same President are considered as two different entries in the list. Consecutive terms by the same President are considered as a single entry. Enough information to distinguish between people is required when multiple Presidents share the same name; last name alone (or a correct full name) will be accepted when this is not the case.


11 - John Tyler - 2
Tybalteon
MarkBarrett
Am I correct in saying that Tybalteon and MarkBarrett got this right, but they didn't name John Tyler? Otherwise, the scores are off.
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Re: TD 361 - Squares and Primes (FINAL STANDINGS AVAILABLE)

Post by SenseiCAY »

Yes, that’s correct- they both said Polk. I’m not sure how Tyler made it there...
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