Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:04 am

twelvefootboy wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:37 pm
Since I've been watching regularly the last couple of years I haven't seen a broadcast "mea culpa" like this. When has it happened previously? Or do they sneak them back without fanfare?
This game comes to mind, but the outcome wasn't affected because it was a two-player lock game.

Also, this one and this one both had after-the-fact retractions of in-game clues (In Life $800 and Also a Blood Type $2000), but they also didn't affect the outcome. Interestingly, the latter was done during a commercial break.
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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Lefty » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:17 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:17 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:52 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:32 pm
Worthy was also higher-rated coming out of North Carolina, as he was the #1 overall pick in 1982 while Jordan was the #3 overall pick in 1984.
I'd hardly hold the Trail Blazers' incompetence (in selecting Sam Bowie) against Michael Jordan.
Or the Rocket's "incompetence" in selecting Hakeem Olajuwon? Centers won championships back then, shooting guards didn't. The Bulls would have likely selected someone other than Jordan if they had had the #2 pick, too. Selecting Jordan over a potentially great center would have required considerable foresight in

* Realizing the entire style of the NBA would change from an inside-out, fast-break style to a slower, more perimeter-oriented game.
* Realizing that Jordan would become far, far greater in the NBA than he ever was in college.

Perhaps a genius GM would have made a different choice, but they would have been a small minority.

Jordan was considered an excellent prospect, yes, and 1984 was a legendarily great draft with a host of future All-Stars. But he wasn't nearly the player in college as he would become in the pro ranks. James Worthy had the slightly better college career and more of a reputation for being clutch, which is why he was selected #1 overall in 1982 (a decent draft year).





Jordan was widely considered the best player in the country as of his early in his sophomore season, and the Heels would likely have won in 1984 had Kenny Smith not got hurt. I don't think Worthy had a better collegiate career, or more of a reputation for being clutch. He even missed the last two free throws of his college career, which left Georgetown with one more chance at the very end. Of course, center is the most important position, but Bowie already seemed injury-prone in college. It was surprising to me that Portland, of all teams, was not frightened off by that.

I don't think Houston needs apologize for drafting Olajuwon.

This game saw a similar FJ scenario: no really correct answer (the intended answer city having had a much smaller population in 1918 than in whatever census the clue was based on counted), but here the player was invited back quietly, and never appeared on the old Sony board to satisfy its inquiring minds.
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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:35 am

Lefty wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:17 am
This game saw a similar FJ scenario: no really correct answer (the intended answer city having had a much smaller population in 1918 than in whatever census the clue was based on counted), but here the player was invited back quietly, and never appeared on the old Sony board to satisfy its inquiring minds.
Both losing players got invited back, in fact, which, again, I think would have happened here had Julie won.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am

Lefty wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:17 am
Jordan was widely considered the best player in the country as of his early in his sophomore season,
"widely"? Early in his sophomore year? That's news to me and everyone else who follows college basketball, considering Ralph Sampson won the Naismith Award in 1982 and 1983. Guess all the sports journalists and fans back then didn't get the memo.

Jordan was certainly a top player with amazing stats for a great team beginning with his sophomore year, but you're exaggerating here by claiming he was the undisputed best, because he wasn't.
Lefty wrote: I don't think Worthy had a better collegiate career,
It's debatable, which is why I used "slightly". Their stats are very, very close overall, and both played 3 tremendously successful years for North Carolina. But since Worthy was the best player on that 1982 championship team and Jordan, as a freshman, was the third best on that team (Sam Perkins was second), a lot of people give Worthy the nod. May not be a fair metric, but nevertheless.
Lefty wrote:or more of a reputation for being clutch. He even missed the last two free throws of his college career, which left Georgetown with one more chance at the very end.
This is just cherry-picking on your part. That same championship game against the Hoyas, Worthy had a game-high 28 points, leading all scorers, repeatedly torching the Hoyas.

Worthy was also named the Most Outstanding Player of the NCAA Tournament, which is typically the mark of being clutch; performing at a consistently elevated level in a single-elimination format.
Lefty wrote: I don't think Houston needs apologize for drafting Olajuwon.
Yeah, that was a joke.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by guessonguessonguess » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:17 am
A Wray wrote:I'm pretty sure the clue specifically mentioned a clutch shot against Georgetown. That's Jordan.
I know. I'm not saying it's impossible or incorrect. But it's not a good clue either, since the other piece of information (famous 1982 Tar Heel player who was named "All-Time March Madness Player" in 2013) would more accurately apply to Worthy, not Jordan.

Ideally, what the guys did or didn't do in the pro ranks shouldn't affect how their college careers are judged.
It's a perfectly fine clue, you just approached it poorly. Worthy did not hit the championship-winning shot against Georgetown in 1982 and, since Jordan is part of the 15-member "All-Time March Madness" team while Worthy is not, you can hardly argue that the latter part of the clue "more accurately" applies to Worthy.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:54 am

guessonguessonguess wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am
It's a perfectly fine clue, you just approached it poorly. Worthy did not hit the championship-winning shot against Georgetown in 1982 and, since Jordan is part of the 15-member "All-Time March Madness" team while Worthy is not, you can hardly argue that the latter part of the clue "more accurately" applies to Worthy.
Right; what percentage of people, even among those that follow college hoops, can tell you off the top of their head who is on the "All-Time March Madness" team? Maybe 1%? It was a major negbait for Worthy, which I doubt the writers intended, considering their sports questions are usually trivial from top to bottom, including this stack.

That's why I don't like using subjective lists in clues, either. (I wasn't a fan of the British female 20th century writer FJ recently for the same reason)

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:12 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 am
Someone tell me how a person who works in a church managed to forget what the freaking Apostles' Creed is called...
Inferior church. You should switch. :D
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TenPoundHammer wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 am
I didn't realize anyone other than Netflix was making movies online. Amazon makes movies too?!
They don't. They just distribute them. :D :D

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 am

First of all, how did a bunch of people in show business in Los Angeles manage to screw that one up? And second, how did it come to their attention? I'm having trouble believing Rebecca went to them and said, "Hey! They didn't produce it, they distributed it!" And if she knew that much, she probably would have put Manchester down just to have something. All very strange.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by A Wray » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:04 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:54 am
Right; what percentage of people, even among those that follow college hoops, can tell you off the top of their head who is on the "All-Time March Madness" team? Maybe 1%?
Exactly. That part of the clue was irrelevant. It was what Ken Jennings calls the "hot fudge" on the plain vanilla clue, which was simply asking who hit one of the most famous shots in NCAA history. If you didn't know that information, don't blame the writers.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by boson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:05 am

Volante wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:18 am
IronNeck wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:46 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:54 pm
Either way Rebecca gets to play again even if she had no idea on the FJ! clue and was in no way thrown by the wording.
Yeah, no kidding. Considering she didn't write anything down, I doubt she thought "Manchester by the Sea? No, it was merely DISTRIBUTED by Amazon, not PRODUCED!"
Welp, I, for one, felt there was something off by the wording, but couldn't place it until the erratum.

While I didn't remember Amazon distributing Manchester by the Sea, I was fairly certain it wasn't produced by them because if Amazon (co)produced Manchester, someone from Amazon would have been up for sharing the Best Picture Oscar, and I know I would have remembered that.
Well, maybe you would have remembered that, however Manchester by the Sea didn't win best picture. It won best actor and screenplay - neither of which go to the producer.

I guessed 'The Big Sick' which I knew was wrong (not that good a movie, and just came out in 2017). It was, however, distributed by Amazon as well. I got my one month of free Amazon prime at Christmas to ship gifts, and watched this on their service.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:02 am

alietr wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 am
First of all, how did a bunch of people in show business in Los Angeles manage to screw that one up? And second, how did it come to their attention? I'm having trouble believing Rebecca went to them and said, "Hey! They didn't produce it, they distributed it!" And if she knew that much, she probably would have put Manchester down just to have something. All very strange.
I think it's possible Rebecca knew enough to rule out Manchester by the Sea and felt her time was better spent chasing down the correct response than writing one she knew was incorrect. But it's also possible the gaffer walked by the judges' table and said, "You guys know that clue was bogus, right? I worked on Manchester by the Sea and my paycheck came from Pearl Street Films." I do notice that Alex is wearing a different suit and tie when he issues the erratum. It would be interesting to know how much time elapsed between the game and the review/decision.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:30 am

Alternate theory: Contestant starts doing their own independent research about their Final Jeopardy after they get home before taping (it wasn't a particularly hard clue to remember, and I'd bet that most contestants know the exact wording of the Final Jeopardy that defeated them), realized "hey, this doesn't really add up", and emails the show.
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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by econgator » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:34 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:30 am
Alternate theory: Contestant starts doing their own independent research about their Final Jeopardy after they get home before taping (it wasn't a particularly hard clue to remember, and I'd bet that most contestants know the exact wording of the Final Jeopardy that defeated them), realized "hey, this doesn't really add up", and emails the show.
And it doesn't even have to be a very deep research. She could have simply looked the movie up on wiki. The third sentence is: "... and was soon picked up by Amazon Studios for distribution." Look to the right for "Production companies" and research done.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:54 am
guessonguessonguess wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am
It's a perfectly fine clue, you just approached it poorly. Worthy did not hit the championship-winning shot against Georgetown in 1982 and, since Jordan is part of the 15-member "All-Time March Madness" team while Worthy is not, you can hardly argue that the latter part of the clue "more accurately" applies to Worthy.
Right; what percentage of people, even among those that follow college hoops, can tell you off the top of their head who is on the "All-Time March Madness" team? Maybe 1%? It was a major negbait for Worthy, which I doubt the writers intended, considering their sports questions are usually trivial from top to bottom, including this stack.
I think it was one of those clues where knowing too much was a disadvantage. Most people are going to think of Jordan right away, but those with substantial college basketball knowledge are going to think "...but what about James Worthy?" And it's not like Worthy is too obscure for consideration. He's in both the college and NBA Halls of Fame and was the MVP of the 1982 tournament.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Elijah Baley » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am

econgator wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:34 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:30 am
Alternate theory: Contestant starts doing their own independent research about their Final Jeopardy after they get home before taping (it wasn't a particularly hard clue to remember, and I'd bet that most contestants know the exact wording of the Final Jeopardy that defeated them), realized "hey, this doesn't really add up", and emails the show.
And it doesn't even have to be a very deep research. She could have simply looked the movie up on wiki. The third sentence is: "... and was soon picked up by Amazon Studios for distribution." Look to the right for "Production companies" and research done.
It is a pretty funny goof and yes, it would have taken 5 seconds to verify.

Also, what was with Alex's remark that they could have been "more precise"?? No Alex, you guys got it completely wrong. Producing a movie and distributing it aren't remotely the same thing. Would they get in trouble for admitting to goofing that up - more than lack of precision?

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Fleeboy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am

Wasn't aware of (or perhaps heard, but forgot about), the Amazon-"Manchester" tie-in. I saw the film on DVD, via Netflix. Would have written "Spotlight" just to get something down.

Am enjoying the debate about the 1982 Tar Heels. Saw them a couple of times that year, most memorably from a folding chair directly behind Dean Smith when they lost to Ralph Sampson and Co. at UVa. in February. That UNC team was a three-headed monster (Sam Perkins' stats that year were similar to Worthy's and Jordan's).

UNC-Georgetown is one of the most famous finals in March Madness history, but MJ's game-winning shot isn't as well-remembered as it should be because of Freddie Brown's gaffe a few seconds later.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MarkBarrett » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:19 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:02 am
alietr wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 am
First of all, how did a bunch of people in show business in Los Angeles manage to screw that one up? And second, how did it come to their attention? I'm having trouble believing Rebecca went to them and said, "Hey! They didn't produce it, they distributed it!" And if she knew that much, she probably would have put Manchester down just to have something. All very strange.
I think it's possible Rebecca knew enough to rule out Manchester by the Sea and felt her time was better spent chasing down the correct response than writing one she knew was incorrect. But it's also possible the gaffer walked by the judges' table and said, "You guys know that clue was bogus, right? I worked on Manchester by the Sea and my paycheck came from Pearl Street Films." I do notice that Alex is wearing a different suit and tie when he issues the erratum. It would be interesting to know how much time elapsed between the game and the review/decision.
Alex did not have the red tie outfit on for today's Friday the 12th game. I'll keep an eye out for it and post when I do see it.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Golf » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:21 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 am
I think it was one of those clues where knowing too much was a disadvantage. Most people are going to think of Jordan right away, but those with substantial college basketball knowledge are going to think "...but what about James Worthy?" And it's not like Worthy is too obscure for consideration. He's in both the college and NBA Halls of Fame and was the MVP of the 1982 tournament.
Pretty much. It's a $400 clue asking for a NC basketball player. That's MJ every time, don't even bother reading the rest of the clue.

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Woof » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:39 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:17 am
Worthy didn't exactly have a horrible pro career either, winning multiple championships with the Magic Johnson-led Lakers (at times Worthy was the 2nd best player on those squads), making multiple All-Star and All-NBA teams, and getting into the Hall of Fame. But obviously, it pales in comparison to what Jordan accomplished.
I would argue that it's exceptionally hard to compare Worthy to Jordan because their roles were so different. Had Worthy not been on a team featuring Magic and Kareem I would guess that his stats would look quite different. Jordan eventually had Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, but they don't quite compare to Magic and Kareem. None of this is to say that Worthy was in any way comparable to Jordan as an NBA player, just that we probably underestimate how good he was in the NBA if we focus just on his career stats (as good as they are).

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Re: Thursday, January 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:52 am

boson wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:05 am
Volante wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:18 am
While I didn't remember Amazon distributing Manchester by the Sea, I was fairly certain it wasn't produced by them because if Amazon (co)produced Manchester, someone from Amazon would have been up for sharing the Best Picture Oscar, and I know I would have remembered that.
Well, maybe you would have remembered that, however Manchester by the Sea didn't win best picture. It won best actor and screenplay - neither of which go to the producer.

I guessed 'The Big Sick' which I knew was wrong (not that good a movie, and just came out in 2017). It was, however, distributed by Amazon as well. I got my one month of free Amazon prime at Christmas to ship gifts, and watched this on their service.
I know Manchester didn't win Best Picture. But they do release the list of nominees:
Lauren Beck (K Period Media), Matt Damon (Matt Damon), Chris Moore (The Media Farm), Kimberly Steward (K Period Media) and Kevin J. Walsh (B Story). No one from Amazon. If Amazon coproduced it, in one of those parentheticals would also be Amazon and, and here's where my memory hypothesis comes in play, there would have been a lot of coverage about that.

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