Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 pm

If the restaurant is Tim Horton’s, then just Tim Horton would be wrong unless the clue was going for the player’s name. Same with the church.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:34 pm

twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:29 pm
davey wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:07 pm
I thought it was absolutely bizarre they let Olivia get away with not once, but twice not responding with a possessive when the category was "Getting Possessive." I don't get it.
Yes, in a sense she "lived twice" on those clues...and then she couldn't take the hint on FJ!... ;)
I didn't get the vibe that the contestants needed to demonstrate mastery of the apostrophe "s", but just the theme of the category was subjects that have a possessive name in common. There weren't any tricks in the conversion like there can be with plurals or verb conjugations, etc.. It's just a theme, folks, not a big mental challenge like drawing a clock or identifying a rhinoceros like our POTUS can handle. (Ironic that we had a rhino clue tonight).
Is the doughnut shop called Tim Horton or Tim Hortons?
Is the cathedral called St. Patrick or St. Patrick's?

It just seems to me you should have to give a response that is actually correct and fits the category.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:44 pm

twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:29 pm
...It's just a theme, folks, not a big mental challenge....
Apparently it was...even the judges weren't up to it...

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:50 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:34 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:29 pm
davey wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:07 pm
I thought it was absolutely bizarre they let Olivia get away with not once, but twice not responding with a possessive when the category was "Getting Possessive." I don't get it.
Yes, in a sense she "lived twice" on those clues...and then she couldn't take the hint on FJ!... ;)
I didn't get the vibe that the contestants needed to demonstrate mastery of the apostrophe "s", but just the theme of the category was subjects that have a possessive name in common. There weren't any tricks in the conversion like there can be with plurals or verb conjugations, etc.. It's just a theme, folks, not a big mental challenge like drawing a clock or identifying a rhinoceros like our POTUS can handle. (Ironic that we had a rhino clue tonight).
Is the doughnut shop called Tim Horton or Tim Hortons?
Is the cathedral called St. Patrick or St. Patrick's?

It just seems to me you should have to give a response that is actually correct and fits the category.
Without the clue in front of me, the Tim Horton(s) clue did include a bit about the player; it may have been nebulous enough that the judges had to accept both but I'm willing to withdraw this argument on actual text.

The cathedral is commonly "St. Patrick's Cathedral" but "The Cathedral of St. Patrick" is also used if, while perhaps only as a technicality, in a pretty primary source location. (See meta description in the code at https://saintpatrickscathedral.org/ :

Code: Select all

<meta name="description" content="Saint Patrick&apos;s Cathedral, St. Patrick&apos;s Cathedral The Cathedral of St. Patrick is a decorated Neo-Gothic-style Roman Catholic cathedral church in the United States and a prominent landmark of New York City."/>
Instafinal. So insta I saved my scores before the response was revealed. I don't recall the rest of the line used in the movie though (the song uses "One life for yourself, and one for your dreams"); it's used as an opening quote in the book before the story proper begins, so a bit on the trickier side.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:30 am

Speaking of which, Fleming's You Only Live Twice is very different from the movie version, but one of the best Bond novels nonetheless. A really outstanding and memorable ending.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:34 am

Volante wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:50 pm

Without the clue in front of me, the Tim Horton(s) clue did include a bit about the player; it may have been nebulous enough that the judges had to accept both but I'm willing to withdraw this argument on actual text.

The cathedral is commonly "St. Patrick's Cathedral" but "The Cathedral of St. Patrick" is also used if, while perhaps only as a technicality, in a pretty primary source location. (See meta description in the code at https://saintpatrickscathedral.org/ :

Code: Select all

<meta name="description" content="Saint Patrick&apos;s Cathedral, St. Patrick&apos;s Cathedral The Cathedral of St. Patrick is a decorated Neo-Gothic-style Roman Catholic cathedral church in the United States and a prominent landmark of New York City."/>
Clue wording is up already on j-archive:
"This Canadian coffee & donut franchise is named for the pro Gordie Howe called "hockey's strongest man"
The clue is definitely asking for the name of the franchise, not the franchise's namesake.

I agree that just "Saint Patrick" should have been accepted as a short form of "Cathedral of St. Patrick" EXCEPT when the category is "Getting Possessive."

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by davey » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:35 am

Volante wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:50 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:34 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:29 pm
davey wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:07 pm
I thought it was absolutely bizarre they let Olivia get away with not once, but twice not responding with a possessive when the category was "Getting Possessive." I don't get it.
Yes, in a sense she "lived twice" on those clues...and then she couldn't take the hint on FJ!... ;)
I didn't get the vibe that the contestants needed to demonstrate mastery of the apostrophe "s", but just the theme of the category was subjects that have a possessive name in common. There weren't any tricks in the conversion like there can be with plurals or verb conjugations, etc.. It's just a theme, folks, not a big mental challenge like drawing a clock or identifying a rhinoceros like our POTUS can handle. (Ironic that we had a rhino clue tonight).
Is the doughnut shop called Tim Horton or Tim Hortons?
Is the cathedral called St. Patrick or St. Patrick's?

It just seems to me you should have to give a response that is actually correct and fits the category.
Without the clue in front of me, the Tim Horton(s) clue did include a bit about the player; it may have been nebulous enough that the judges had to accept both but I'm willing to withdraw this argument on actual text.
This Canadian coffee & donut franchise is named for the pro Gordie Howe called "hockey's strongest man"

I think the excuse the judges might use is that the first clue in the category did not take a possessive, Stoddard's was in the clue, so that was misleading... :roll:

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by NoWhammies10 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:47 am

Except that the name of the coffee-and-doughnut chain is Tim Hortons, plural. Not Tim Horton, singular. That's the player. One should never be mistaken for the other. Would TPTB accept "Dunkin' Donut"? "McDonald"? "Starbuck"? So why is Tim Horton acceptable when referring to the chain? ESPECIALLY in a category talking about possessive apostrophe-S endings?

(of course Starbuck, singular, should be accepted when talking about the Moby Dick character)

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 am

NoWhammies10 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:47 am
(of course Starbuck, singular, should be accepted when talking about the Moby Dick character)
Or the "Moonlight Feels Right" band. :lol:

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:05 am

Here's a clip of the non-possessive responses.


It's very clear. She doesn't trail off at the end. She clearly enunciates the final consonant in each case and it's not an s. The closed-captioner heard it the same way. I say this with zero ill will toward Olivia, of course. I would've felt terrible for her if she'd gotten the awkward silence followed by a "no" when she said "Tim Horton".

But with the game as close as it was, even that $400 clue (EDIT: which was the St. Patrick clue. The Tim Horton clue was $600) could have changed the outcome of the game. Other things being equal, David and Gilbert would then have been tied going into FJ. And this is a case where other things might well have been equal. I don't see Gilbert changing his $2000 DD wagers just because the gap is $400 tighter.
Last edited by opusthepenguin on Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by seaborgium » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:13 am

If the scores had been $14,800 to $16,800 at the time instead of $12,800 to $14,800, I wonder if David would still have blown $400 responding with Java to "this island of the Philippines." That may be the clue that ends up haunting him.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 am

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:13 am
If the scores had been $14,800 to $16,800 at the time instead of $12,800 to $14,800, I wonder if David would still have blown $400 responding with Java to "this island of the Philippines." That may be the clue that ends up haunting him.
That's an excellent point. Considering the reasoning for Rebecca getting a second chance because of the FJ mistake, why doesn't David get a second chance because of a bad judging mistake?

You can say "Oh, that score disparity wouldn't have changed anything most of the time!" And I would counter that the correct form of that FJ probably wouldn't have changed anything, either.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by jeff6286 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:30 am

I feel like if David is behind, he would be even more likely to take a shot at the $400 clue. What would make you assume that the opposite would be true? Certainly it's impossible to know if the final 5 clues play out the same had the DD been ruled correct to begin with, but I don't know if they would consider bringing a player back simply due to this. I will say it seems a bit sloppy of them not to consider alternate names for athlete's foot and research it beforehand.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:01 am

Olivia also got to play the DD after the Tim Horton clue. Who knows what happens if they neg her and one of the guys rebounds.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by dinghammer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:21 am

As far as I can tell, though several clues have included the names of other islands, there's only ever been one clue with the desired response of an island in the Philippines that wasn't Luzon. It was over 21 years ago: WORLD GEOGRAPHY (DJ!) for $800 in this game.

An interesting clue I saw while searching the archive was the Daily Double in WATCH YOUR TONGUE (DJ!) in this game.
Following the U.S. & the U.K., this Southeast Asian island nation has the largest number of English speakers
I don't believe those rankings are true anymore, and I wonder if they were then (though I guess a lot can change in ~15 years). Unless they meant people with English as their first language, but even then...

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bartleby » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:56 am

NoWhammies10 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:47 am
(of course Starbuck, singular, should be accepted when talking about the Moby Dick character)
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 am
Or the "Moonlight Feels Right" band. :lol:
Or Dirk Benedict or Katee Sackoff ;)
I would prefer not to.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by harrumph » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:41 am

How many times, if any, have we seen a judges decision flip the leaders going into FJ?

David was a good entertaining player.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:14 am

After the huge rigamarole surrounding Gangsta's Paradise, does anyone on this board honestly believe that they didn't actually listen to Olivia's responses to those two clues?

It is abundantly clear, at least to me, that the judges made an explicit judgement to unequivocally accept both responses.

In my view, this means "case closed".

You're welcome to debate whether or not they should have done so, but the discussion should only focus on that part only, and not on its effect on the outcome of the game.

Because that latter discussion comes too close to casting undue aspersions on the outcome of the game, which, frankly, is grossly unfair to our current champion.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:15 am

IronNeck wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 am
why doesn't David get a second chance because of a bad judging mistake?
It was completely consistent with past precedents that the show has used. It was in absolutely no way, shape, or form a mistake.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:14 am
You're welcome to debate whether or not they should have done so, but the discussion should only focus on that part only, and not on its effect on the outcome of the game.
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.

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