Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:14 am
After the huge rigamarole surrounding Gangsta's Paradise, does anyone on this board honestly believe that they didn't actually listen to Olivia's responses to those two clues?

It is abundantly clear, at least to me, that the judges made an explicit judgement to unequivocally accept both responses.

In my view, this means "case closed".

You're welcome to debate whether or not they should have done so, but the discussion should only focus on that part only, and not on its effect on the outcome of the game.

Because that latter discussion comes too close to casting undue aspersions on the outcome of the game, which, frankly, is grossly unfair to our current champion.
I see it a little differently. I agree that the judges probably explicitly decided to accept both responses. So the discussion is, as you say, over whether the judgment was correct. I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.
opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am
I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.
Contestants (Including ToC champions) have gone on record multiple times as saying that the most disappointing parts of their entire contestant experiences was when the diehard fans start implying that the outcome was somehow incorrect because of a ruling the judges made.

In light of this, we as a community really need to be significantly more careful in the language that we use.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by guessonguessonguess » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.
opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am
I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.
Contestants (Including ToC champions) have gone on record multiple times as saying that the most disappointing parts of their entire contestant experiences was when the diehard fans start implying that the outcome was somehow incorrect because of a ruling the judges made.

In light of this, we as a community really need to be significantly more careful in the language that we use.
That sounds like their cross to bear, not ours. This is a particularly interesting counterfactual since Olivia responded without a possessive in two consecutive clues prior to selecting the Daily Double, which could certainly have had an impact on the game’s outcome.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.
opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am
I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.
Contestants (Including ToC champions) have gone on record multiple times as saying that the most disappointing parts of their entire contestant experiences was when the diehard fans start implying that the outcome was somehow incorrect because of a ruling the judges made.

In light of this, we as a community really need to be significantly more careful in the language that we use.
Has anyone really suggested that Gilbert shouldn't have won, though? Basically the discussion is how a judging decision may have affected the game outcome. None of us really know what would have happened had the judges decided to neg Olivia. Would one of the other two have gotten in on a rebound? Who would have gotten the DD? I would think this kind of speculation is fair game.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:46 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 pm
Gilbert’s victory was just about as if he read the posts from yesterday putting him in Bronze and comparing him to Paul Nelson and Rani Peffer. Instead he went up a level to Kara Spak and Sarah McNitt Land.
I just ran the same numbers on Gilbert that I ran on the 15 ToC players; Gilbert's "similarity score" appears to line up best with Justin Vossler thus far.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am

guessonguessonguess wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am
That sounds like their cross to bear, not ours.
This is the worst take I have seen in a very long time.

A Jeopardy! champion is a Jeopardy! champion, and a Jeopardy! champion should absolutely, positively, not have any sort of "cross to bear" in terms of the fans trying to discount that accomplishment in any way whatsoever.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:50 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:14 am
After the huge rigamarole surrounding Gangsta's Paradise, does anyone on this board honestly believe that they didn't actually listen to Olivia's responses to those two clues?

It is abundantly clear, at least to me, that the judges made an explicit judgement to unequivocally accept both responses.

In my view, this means "case closed".

You're welcome to debate whether or not they should have done so, but the discussion should only focus on that part only, and not on its effect on the outcome of the game.

Because that latter discussion comes too close to casting undue aspersions on the outcome of the game, which, frankly, is grossly unfair to our current champion.
I don't think they should have taken either response, especially Tim Horton. Had they been negged, it could well have changed the outcome if one of the men had gotten the DD. But it is impossible to say how it would have changed the ending because we don't know how they would have bet on that DD or if they would have gotten it right or not. And different scores would have possibly changed Gilbert's DD bets in the DJ rounds.

I don't think saying it might have changed the game is questioning the worthiness of Gilbert's victory. I don't think David has a case to be brought back. Every judgement call is going to have an effect on the game's outcome. Maybe things go differently if ringworm had been taken to begin with. Maybe the player gets it wrong if they BMS Trudeau or Nehru. But there are way too many rabbit holes to go down trying to say this was a game changer.
Last edited by Bamaman on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by guessonguessonguess » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:53 am

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am
guessonguessonguess wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am
That sounds like their cross to bear, not ours.
This is the worst take I have seen in a very long time.

A Jeopardy! champion is a Jeopardy! champion, and a Jeopardy! champion should absolutely, positively, not have any sort of "cross to bear" in terms of the fans trying to discount that accomplishment in any way whatsoever.
One’s status as a Jeopardy! champion does not render them exempt from criticism and/or polite questioning of the circumstances that lead to their victory. I could not possibly care less that some isolated contestants find the discussion of their victory to be the most “disappointing” part of winning a nationally-televised game show.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:53 am

Bamaman wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:01 am
Olivia also got to play the DD after the Tim Horton clue. Who knows what happens if they neg her and one of the guys rebounds.
But if they'd negged her for St. Patrick, she would've gotten Tim Hortons right. I don't see a scenario where she rings in on that clue and makes the same mistake that just cost her $400. So nobody's getting that DD on a rebound after she says "Tim Horton".

I suppose they could retroactively ding her for BOTH incorrect responses even though she never got a chance to learn from the first mistake. I think that would be unfair. But even if it happened that way, Olivia would retain control of the board. She was the last player to give a correct response. So the DD would still belong to her.

The only way that changes is if she gets negged on St. Patrick and that throws off her timing and concentration. In that case David or Gilbert wins the buzzer race for the Tim Hortons clue and goes on to the DD. Or switches categories and doesn't uncover it. Things get even more speculative at this point.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:59 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:53 am
Bamaman wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:01 am
Olivia also got to play the DD after the Tim Horton clue. Who knows what happens if they neg her and one of the guys rebounds.
But if they'd negged her for St. Patrick, she would've gotten Tim Hortons right. I don't see a scenario where she rings in on that clue and makes the same mistake that just cost her $400. So nobody's getting that DD on a rebound after she says "Tim Horton".

I suppose they could retroactively ding her for BOTH incorrect responses even though she never got a chance to learn from the first mistake. I think that would be unfair. But even if it happened that way, Olivia would retain control of the board. She was the last player to give a correct response. So the DD would still belong to her.

The only way that changes is if she gets negged on St. Patrick and that throws off her timing and concentration. In that case David or Gilbert wins the buzzer race for the Tim Hortons clue and goes on to the DD. Or switches categories and doesn't uncover it. Things get even more speculative at this point.
I agree the time to neg her was at St. Patrick. But like you said, there are way too many variables to sort through before we can definitively say she would still have rang in first on Tim Hortons and gotten the DD box.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:06 am

guessonguessonguess wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:53 am
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am
guessonguessonguess wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am
That sounds like their cross to bear, not ours.
This is the worst take I have seen in a very long time.

A Jeopardy! champion is a Jeopardy! champion, and a Jeopardy! champion should absolutely, positively, not have any sort of "cross to bear" in terms of the fans trying to discount that accomplishment in any way whatsoever.
One’s status as a Jeopardy! champion does not render them exempt from criticism and/or polite questioning of the circumstances that lead to their victory. I could not possibly care less that some isolated contestants find the discussion of their victory to be the most “disappointing” part of winning a nationally-televised game show.
Huh. I care. I like it when the contestants stop by to chat here. I like it even more when they stick around. It would trouble me to think that anything I've said has kept a contestant from de-lurking. At the same time, I'm with Kirk in thinking this kind of discussion is a core purpose of the board. I think for the most part we do it respectfully in a way that shouldn't scare anyone off. (There are a few exceptions who, I suspect, constitute the bulk of the deterrent.) But I'm always happy for the reminder to be circumspect. In this case I feel I have been, though, and don't see a need to alter any of my comments.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:08 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:06 am
But I'm always happy for the reminder to be circumspect. In this case I feel I have been, though, and don't see a need to alter any of my comments.
Thank you.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:11 am

Bamaman wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:59 am
I agree the time to neg her was at St. Patrick. But like you said, there are way too many variables to sort through before we can definitively say she would still have rang in first on Tim Hortons and gotten the DD box.
One other possibility for the mix: some are arguing that accepting St. Patrick was ok because it can be called the Cathedral of St. Patrick. But Tim Hortons is unequivocally wrong. Had the judges followed this reasoning, Olivia would have gotten credit for St. Patrick and negged on Tim Horton. In that case, we do see the scenario you postulated where one of the guys picks up the DD on rebound.

That would've engendered a wild discussion on this board, I know that much.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by John Boy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:36 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 pm
The reversal on DD3 made all the difference today.
No kidding. Gilbert dodged a cannonball. I have to believe if they had gone into FJ with David leading as we originally thought, David would have made the proper wager and won the game.

Which is really too bad for David, as he played a great game also and deserved a kinder fate.

And Alex got the "blockbuster" game he was looking for.

My misspent youth made this FJ a no-brainer. In high school all of us guys wanted to be James Bond, the coolest guy ever. So I read many of the Fleming novels. In this novel, Bond's Japanese cohort Tiger Tanaka explains "You only live twice: once when you're born, and once when you stare death in the face." He says it's a Haiku in Japanese but (obviously) doesn't work so well as one when translated.

Many congrats to the (also-cool) Gilbert, who has moved well into the top 100 regular season money earners on the show AND probably cemented a ToC bid with this outstanding win. (And I imagine his kids are over the moon as well!)


Idle note: CFS is associated with memory loss???? I associate memory loss with CRS (can't remember shit).

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by silverscreentest » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:03 pm

I got FJ, but I was remembering the lyrics to the song performed by Nancy Sinatra.
You only live twice, or so it seems
One life for yourself, and one for your dreams
Last edited by silverscreentest on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by morbeedo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:07 pm

LucarioSnooperVixey wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:03 pm
LT: Flowers in the Attic, Circus Maximus, (*Athlete's Foot*), Martinique, Luzon
Doh! Of course I responded with Guadeloupe!

No guess on FJ in the allotted time

Got to the "tuss" root for cough but couldn't get to pertussis

Tinea pedis stumped me, too. The "couch potato" part of the clue didn't help at all. Landed on gout / club foot, both terrible guesses but at least I was in the right part of the body

missed circus maximus yet again

David was in my audition group in NYC in July. 2nd person from my group to appear on the show. Both come from towns outside NYC. My first 6 months of pool swimming have elapsed. Just 6 more to go, and then another 6! :)

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by morbeedo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:19 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.
opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am
I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.
Contestants (Including ToC champions) have gone on record multiple times as saying that the most disappointing parts of their entire contestant experiences was when the diehard fans start implying that the outcome was somehow incorrect because of a ruling the judges made.

In light of this, we as a community really need to be significantly more careful in the language that we use.
It's surprising to read this, considering what gets said about the average contestant on Twitter. I don't see anything offensive about any of the comments above, and this is coming from someone who's been called out on this board a few times for excessive snark. Isn't it the moderator's job to police this forum?

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:03 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:19 pm
It's surprising to read this, considering what gets said about the average contestant on Twitter.
At least two contestants have called either myself or the entire community out on this point in #JeopardyLivePanel interviews.
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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Elijah Baley » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:34 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 am
Oh, come on. That's the whole reason for having this discussion board. The "what if?" scenarios are interesting.
opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 am
I don't think it's unreasonable to take the position that this judgment was in error and this error potentially affected the outcome. I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions by saying that or to diminish Gilbert's win.
Contestants (Including ToC champions) have gone on record multiple times as saying that the most disappointing parts of their entire contestant experiences was when the diehard fans start implying that the outcome was somehow incorrect because of a ruling the judges made.

In light of this, we as a community really need to be significantly more careful in the language that we use.
Contestants can't be the only ones that dictate the parameters of debate here about games. It's curious that anyone would take offense or find it hurtful to have people debate questionable judging and last night was a good example. It's just weird that the judges weren't prepared for an answer other than "athlete's foot" (or is it athlete foot - no possessive??) and you can't help but wonder how the game might have been different. It's not a knock of Gilbert or David - two very fine players who were well matched and were fun to watch.

I don't doubt that it can be difficult to have one's game picked over and maybe it brings up hurt feelings in some, but I'd hope that they'd see a good discussion about the game as respect for it - and the players - as opposed to some kind of effort to make them feel bad.

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Re: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mxc_takeshi » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:27 pm

33 right.

British (5), Leader (5), Possessive (2), Potpourri (1), Book (2), "DIS" (2)
Emmy (0), Doc (3), "C" (2), Ancient (4), Etymology (3), Lava (4)

Lach Trash: Sookie Stackhouse, Gerry & the Pacemakers, Dusty Springfield, Circus Maximus, Martinique, Luzon; Daily Double: athlete's foot

Aside from counting at the beginning, I knew the movie was released in 1967, so that helped me as well.

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