Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

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How did you do in the Football category?

$200 - Your choice: do or don't name this play in which the QB runs the ball & can choose to pitch it to another back
93
70%
$400 - Tom Landry perfected the shotgun formation with this team
111
83%
$600 - By signaling for one of these, a returner can reel in a kick without fear of getting tackled
102
77%
$800 - These "penalties" are simultaneous violations by the offense & defense that cancel each other out
97
73%
$1000 - As Minneapolis' U.S. Bank Stadium prepares to host Super Bowl LII, I'm looking at the Ring of Honor, with names from this defensive line that took the Vikings to four Super Bowls
90
68%
I went 0/5
9
7%
I went 1/5
10
8%
I went 2/5
8
6%
I went 3/5
11
8%
I went 4/5
20
15%
I went 5/5
75
56%
 
Total votes: 133

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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by clprez »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Just had to post this because I may never get to post 5 correct in the regular weekly poll.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by zerobandwidth »

seaborgium wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:20 pm :( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :(

If I'm going 3/5 in a football category, it has no business going 0/5 on the show. But I guess I manage to absorb a bit by having enough sports fans in my family and being somewhat capable of deriving entertainment from sports.

Tom Landry -> Cowboys (and vice versa) goes hand in hand with Don Shula -> Dolphins and Vince Lombardi -> Packers for essential coach/team knowledge that I've memorized. (Bill Belichick -> Patriots probably belongs in that echelon at this point, too.)
Add Joe Gibbs → Redskins (1980s-1990s).

Similarly, add Bobby Beathard → Redskins (1980s-1990s) and Chargers (1990-2000) as a general manager who was so active and so skilled in recruiting new/young players that he contributed to both teams' appearance in multiple Super Bowls. He also (sort-of) played for both teams. I believe he's one of a very short list of GMs who have taken multiple NFL teams to the Super Bowl.

Other Pavlovian responses to head coaches' windows of success from around the same time:
  • Bill Cowher → Pittsburgh Steelers (1990s)
  • John Gruden → Oakland/LA Raiders (in the news because he's coming out of retirement to resume that position)
  • Mike Holmgren → Green Bay Packers (1990s) — notable for his success in leading the Packers to championships, and being a contemporary of Brett Favre
  • Jimmy Johnson → Dallas Cowboys (1990s) — three Super Bowl wins and contemporary with the team that included Troy Aikman (QB), Emmitt Smith (HB), Michael Irvin (WR), Leon Lett (DT), and Deion Sanders (CB)
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by zerobandwidth »

Peter the accountant wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:35 pm
immaf wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:16 pmIt's a good thing the poll lets us revise our results. I said "play action" for the $200 clue. I initially counted it as correct, I guess because in my sad excuse for a brain "play action" became "play option" which seemed close enough to "option play." I only realized my error through reading this thread.

But was I indeed wrong? What is a "play action" play (other than something I've heard commentators say)? It it possible that "Play action" and "option play" are the same thing?
To this non-expert in the game, it's a "no."

My understanding is that an option play is a running play. The QB runs across the field for a bit, then chooses to lateral the ball to the HB that is running somewhat parallel to him, or keep the ball and turn down field himself. The defense has to choose which of the two players (QB or HB) to stop. If too many go after the QB, he'll lateral the ball to the HB who won't have enough defenders to stop him quickly. If not enough defenders go after the QB, he'll be able to make the turn down field and advance the ball.

A play action is a passing play and doesn't really have an option. The QB fakes a handoff but keeps the ball and continues to drop back for a pass. The goal is to trick the defense into going after the HB who doesn't have the ball, freeing up a receiver to catch the pass.
More precisely, "play-action" refers to a play that is designed to look like a running play but in fact set up a passing play. Play-action pass plays will often be based directly on specific running plays, and be numbered similarly in the team's playbook. The idea is to draw the defensive backs forward in an attempt to stop the runner, giving the receives an opportunity to run past them for a long pass.

The theory behind the "option" is that the defense must defend against two plays at the same time. They must shut down the "inside" gap that the quarterback might take, but must also defend the "outside" gap (down the sideline) that would be taken by the option runner (usually a halfback or fullback who was with the QB in the backfield at the start).

This is different from the "option-reverse" in which the QB takes the ball toward the sideline while one of the wide receivers runs toward him. In such a play, there is either a real or fake exchange of the ball between the QB and WR — when real, the QB continues with his blockers toward the sideline; when fake, the WR runs a "reverse" route toward the other side of the field, in the hopes that the defense is still following the QB.

(takes a breath) Yes I would really have liked to play this category.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Leander »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The Vikings answer was a lucky guess, based on a vague memory from the 70’s. I was willing to make the guess from my armchair, but would have clammed in a game situation. The rest were pretty much instagets.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant »

zerobandwidth wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 pm (takes a breath) Yes I would really have liked to play this category.
Since were geeking out, is the option play still more common in college games than pro?

My thought is that pro quarterbacks are far too expensive these days to put them at risk on simple running plays. So those are college (and high school) plays for the most part. For the same reason, you don't see quarterback sneaks as often, either. Bring on the big guys and lets see which team can push through (or defend) those last couple of feet.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by threearruda »

Peter the accountant wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:31 pm
Since were geeking out, is the option play still more common in college games than pro?

My thought is that pro quarterbacks are far too expensive these days to put them at risk on simple running plays. So those are college (and high school) plays for the most part. For the same reason, you don't see quarterback sneaks as often, either. Bring on the big guys and lets see which team can push through (or defend) those last couple of feet.
You're absolutely correct. College defenses are often a little slower than in the NFL and by employing more speed and a zone read offense, a team can catch a defense off-guard and make sure they get the ball in the hands of one of their fastest players in the backfield. As such, a lot more athletes are becoming quarterbacks at the college level. 2016 Heisman Trophy winner Lamar Jackson from Louisville is a great example. He's perhaps the best dual threat quarterback I've seen in my (short) lifetime, running for over 1,500 yards in addition to passing for 3,500 yards in each of the past two seasons - the offense ran through him and his athleticism (helps that he has a fantastic arm too!)

If you watch Army, Navy or Air Force play, they run a different type of option, a more traditional flexbone, triple option look. This is in part because their players are at a size disadvantage most of the time compared to the other civilian schools because of recruiting height and weight limitations. This type of option focuses on execution instead of pure athleticism and helps neutralize any shortcomings there.

While the zone read look (just the quarterback and running back) was popular in the NFL a few years ago, I think a lot of teams have adapted to the look - and in the NFL everyone's fast enough to defend the run. You're also probably right in assuming that coaches prefer to have their franchise players passing the ball and leaving the running to others, especially as franchise QBs become harder to find. Robert Griffin III (a former Top 5 draft pick) suffered a knee injury at the end of his rookie year on a run play - he was never the same after that.

Obviously there's a lot more to these philosophies of football, but just some bare bones observations from me. :D
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by tiwonge »

Peter the accountant wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:31 pm
zerobandwidth wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 pm (takes a breath) Yes I would really have liked to play this category.
Since were geeking out, is the option play still more common in college games than pro?

My thought is that pro quarterbacks are far too expensive these days to put them at risk on simple running plays. So those are college (and high school) plays for the most part. For the same reason, you don't see quarterback sneaks as often, either. Bring on the big guys and lets see which team can push through (or defend) those last couple of feet.
Basically, yes. Also, the option can be a good offense to run at schools where it's harder to recruit the kind of talent for a west coast/shotgun/pro style/whatever offense work. (i.e., if you can't get a good passer or fast receivers, then you can find a running QB and run the option.) This is why all three service academies (Army, Navy, Air Force) run it, and a few other schools. New Mexico has also had decent success with the option under Bob Davie. (I mean, not hugely successful, but now they're a competitive conference team occasionally upsetting the top teams in the conference, whereas before Davie took over, they were a dumpster fire. (I count 9 consecutive 3-9 records followed by 3 consecutive 1-11 records.) Georgia Tech has also managed to be relatively successful with an option style offense.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

nklotz wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:50 pm
NoWhammies10 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:50 pm
$800: "Offsetting" is the term in the NFL. "Coincidental" is the term in the NHL. Went with the former. Would the latter be acceptable, judges?
Doubtful. It's officially referred to as a "Double Foul" in the rulebook, but I've only ever heard it called "offsetting" during a game.
Usually it's the announcers who use the exact term "offsetting." The referees rarely refer to penalties that way. The usual statement by the refs is to announce one penalty, then the other, then state, "The penalties offset" with a mention that the down will be replayed.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Ironhorse »

CasketRomance wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:48 pm couldn't name you any of the dudes from the purple people eaters, but first heard of them when they were the subject of a reading comprehension exercise i had in 10th grade at my alternative school after having been booted from the regular school
I only know Alan Page, and that's more because of his post-football career.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Tom Landry and Purple People Eaters are from the '70s, back when football was football. 8-)
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Blue Lion »

Peter the accountant wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:31 pm
My thought is that pro quarterbacks are far too expensive these days to put them at risk on simple running plays. So those are college (and high school) plays for the most part. For the same reason, you don't see quarterback sneaks as often, either. Bring on the big guys and lets see which team can push through (or defend) those last couple of feet.
Drew Magary of Deadspin.com wrote an interesting column about how the combination of the NFL's salary cap and high QB salaries have forced teams to choose between signing a top-tier quarterback or assembling a strong team and hoping a lower-tier QB can lead it to the Super Bowl.

https://deadspin.com/you-can-have-a-gre ... 1822190100

This past season our local team, the Detroit Lions, made QB Matthew Stafford the highest-paid player in league history (for the time being). For months, fans have argued whether the Lions overpaid for a QB who has zero playoff wins or whether the team would be almost as bad as the Browns without Stafford.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Anachronism »

Peter the accountant wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:31 pm
zerobandwidth wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 pm (takes a breath) Yes I would really have liked to play this category.
Since were geeking out, is the option play still more common in college games than pro?

My thought is that pro quarterbacks are far too expensive these days to put them at risk on simple running plays. So those are college (and high school) plays for the most part. For the same reason, you don't see quarterback sneaks as often, either. Bring on the big guys and lets see which team can push through (or defend) those last couple of feet.
I could probably write a thesis on this question, as it's part of my job to know this stuff, but the quarterback sneak is still alive and well, and no one is better at it than 40-year-old Tom Brady. It is used far less than in the past, simply because even on third-and-one, many teams will go to a pass-first offense and because there are quite a few teams that normally line up in the shotgun or pistol. The sneak is perfectly safe since it's a controlled dive and defenders aren't going to get a clean shot.

Many teams use quarterbacks in different ways. The true option (as described in the $200 question) is even making a comeback in the NFL, mostly because of Carson Wentz's breakout season in Philadelphia (of course, he just suffered a major knee injury). More common is the "read-option run," which is a play in which the quarterback "reads" a specific defender, then decides to run or pass based on how that player reacts to the snap.

This is starting to disappear, as more and more teams are aware that the read-option run can be defeated by disguising coverages - something that's really hard to do well at the college level.

The NFL changes so quickly. Remember the Wildcat? Introduced in 2008, everywhere by 2010, and now you almost never see it.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by BobF »

This was a category where knowing too much football could actually harm your chances.

For instance Tom Landry played 6 seasons for the New York Giants and was an assistant coach for them, it wasn't until I considered the dollar value of the clue that I thought it must be Cowboys.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by BobF »

zerobandwidth wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:53 pm
seaborgium wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:20 pm :( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :(

If I'm going 3/5 in a football category, it has no business going 0/5 on the show. But I guess I manage to absorb a bit by having enough sports fans in my family and being somewhat capable of deriving entertainment from sports.

Tom Landry -> Cowboys (and vice versa) goes hand in hand with Don Shula -> Dolphins and Vince Lombardi -> Packers for essential coach/team knowledge that I've memorized. (Bill Belichick -> Patriots probably belongs in that echelon at this point, too.)
Add Joe Gibbs → Redskins (1980s-1990s).

Similarly, add Bobby Beathard → Redskins (1980s-1990s) and Chargers (1990-2000) as a general manager who was so active and so skilled in recruiting new/young players that he contributed to both teams' appearance in multiple Super Bowls. He also (sort-of) played for both teams. I believe he's one of a very short list of GMs who have taken multiple NFL teams to the Super Bowl.

Other Pavlovian responses to head coaches' windows of success from around the same time:
  • Bill Cowher → Pittsburgh Steelers (1990s)
  • John Gruden → Oakland/LA Raiders (in the news because he's coming out of retirement to resume that position)
  • Mike Holmgren → Green Bay Packers (1990s) — notable for his success in leading the Packers to championships, and being a contemporary of Brett Favre
  • Jimmy Johnson → Dallas Cowboys (1990s) — three Super Bowl wins and contemporary with the team that included Troy Aikman (QB), Emmitt Smith (HB), Michael Irvin (WR), Leon Lett (DT), and Deion Sanders (CB)
John Madden 70's Raiders
Chuck Noll 70's Steelers
Bill Parcells 80's Giants (who had some guy named Belicheck as his Defensive Coordinator there, and when he coached the Jets in the 90s)
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by Budphrey »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
threearruda wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:18 pm If you watch Army, Navy or Air Force play, they run a different type of option, a more traditional flexbone, triple option look. This is in part because their players are at a size disadvantage most of the time compared to the other civilian schools because of recruiting height and weight limitations. This type of option focuses on execution instead of pure athleticism and helps neutralize any shortcomings there.
Regarding "triple option": is my impression correct, that this is distinct from the plain option play in that the QB can opt either to run, pitch or forward pass?
tiwonge wrote:New Mexico has also had decent success with the option under Bob Davie. (I mean, not hugely successful, but now they're a competitive conference team occasionally upsetting the top teams in the conference ...
This alum raises his hand on behalf of Boise State.
BobF wrote:John Madden 70's Raiders
Let's not forget Tom Flores, '80s Raiders. Fun fact I just discovered from his Wikipedia page: He and Mike Ditka are the only people to win Super Bowls as a player, an assistant coach and a head coach.
Last edited by Budphrey on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by nserven »

I said "Purple Curtain" for the $1,000 clue.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by xxaaaxx »

zerobandwidth wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:53 pm Other Pavlovian responses to head coaches' windows of success from around the same time:
  • Jimmy Johnson → Dallas Cowboys (1990s) — three Super Bowl wins and contemporary with the team that included Troy Aikman (QB), Emmitt Smith (HB), Michael Irvin (WR), Leon Lett (DT), and Deion Sanders (CB)
Two. After he and Jerry Jones not-so-amicably parted ways, Barry Switzer was the coach when they won their third SB.
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by jkbrat »

:( :mrgreen: :( :( :mrgreen:

Growing up in Minnesota in the 1970s probably helped a bit on the last one :D
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Re: Football Category Poll (2/1/18 SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Budphrey wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:21 am Regarding "triple option": is my impression correct, that this is distinct from the plain option play in that the QB can opt either to run, pitch or forward pass?
Triple option uses two running backs, where as the standard option uses one.
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