Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Gemini Bowie » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Was the FJ supposed to be some kind of "trick?"

My gf and I immediately answered "trombone."

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Saturnalia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:54 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:24 pm
I botched this FJ horribly. My thought process was that it must be a large instrument, so I put down bassoon which is not even a brass instrument. Trombone was exceptionally obvious in hindsight.
I got stuck on tuba for a few seconds for the same reason, though I worked my way to the right answer.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Bamaman » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:54 pm

Not my category but got it on a guess.

Congrats on making the show, Tracy. Thank you for sharing your wagering strategy.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by flemmingfan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:28 pm

tlazareth wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:45 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:12 pm
OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:44 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Hope Tracey got good deals on her travel arrangements as she gifted David an extra $1000 that he could have spared.
Tempted to disagree with this because Stratton's Dilemma and the fact that it was an exact two-thirds game.
That's fine and I see your point. To me BRASS INSTRUMENTS seems narrow with a limited amount of choices and coupled with the DD standard bet of 2000 that did not even get her the lead I'm sensing more chicken than strategy in play.

And even if Tracey did go for zero with the hope of winning 11600 to 11599 that still does not account for David (the returning champ with money already in the bank) betting big.

Perhaps Tracey will check in on Reddit and we'll get the answer.
Hi J-Boarders. This is my first time posting (long time lurker), but I felt compelled to defend my honour (such as it is)! Here is how it went. In the few minutes that I had to come up with my wager, I actually tried to run through all possible scenarios in my mind (while attempting to do the math and not become distracted by Alex taking questions from the audience). Given the category, I figured that it would either be something obvious that we would all get right (in which case, if Catherine bet in the usual way, she would beat me by $1, even if I doubled my money) or it would be something obscure that we would all get wrong (in which case, I could win by $1 if I bet nothing). I really couldn't envision a situation where David and I would get it right and Catherine would not, given her broad range of knowledge and excellent game play to that point. While standing at the podium, pen poised to write down my wager, I flip-flopped about ten times, but I ultimately decided not to play for second place, but to take a chance and go for first. It didn't work out as planned, but I did actually have a strategy!
Tracey
Hi Tracey, welcome to the Board and thanks for posting. IMO you played well and also wagered according to your plan which I agree with. All of you were enjoyable to watch.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by AFRET CMS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 pm

Saturnalia wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:54 pm
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:24 pm
I botched this FJ horribly. My thought process was that it must be a large instrument, so I put down bassoon which is not even a brass instrument. Trombone was exceptionally obvious in hindsight.
I got stuck on tuba for a few seconds for the same reason, though I worked my way to the right answer.
I previewed the FJ on "Clue of the Day" and misread the double-quotes as single-quotes, think "notes are six and seven feet apart?" Only thing that I could envision was something like a heraldic trumpet. Went with tuba, thinking it would probably uncoil into the longest tube. Then, watching the show, left a handprint on my forehead as AT read "inches" and my wife immediately said "trombone, of course, nobody could think of anything different."
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by AFRET CMS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:41 pm

tlazareth wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:45 pm
... but I ultimately decided not to play for second place, but to take a chance and go for first.

Tracey
That's an attitude we can respect -- wish more players had the same philosophy. It was a great match with three players worth rooting for. Thanks for sharing your behind-the-scenes thoughts.
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by mikebdoss » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:20 pm

I was in the audience for this show and the next two (taped back on February 14th). Strange and awesome to finally see it on the air.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 pm

squarekara wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:53 am
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am
Out of curiosity, why did you wait until right before FJ, with your adrenaline high and blood pumping, to consider these scenarios? Why didn't you run through all these potential scenarios (of which there aren't that many) weeks or months before you were on your show, in the comforts of your own home?

For spur-of-the-moment reasoning, it's not bad, but of course, the actual correct decision should be derived from quantitative analysis taking into account prize money, confidence in the category, chances leader will get it right, maybe conditional probabilities, etc. Under certain assumptions, your play is okay, and under others, it's sub-optimal.

I will say that your assumption about Catherine knowing everything that you and David would doesn't make much sense. Maybe if she was a 10-day champion locking game after game, not when she has a nice debut game with a small Coryat lead over 2nd place.
Huh, I didn't realize Jeopardy was a children's cartoon of no consequence for any of the contestants. Does that mean everyone on this message board, yourself included, is a snotty fool for writing long posts about the games and players?

Although this perspective does explain your infantile post earlier in the topic, where you claimed of a contestant finishing 3rd
squarekara wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:08 pm
You played beautifully.
If I were the contestant, I would find this very patronizing and insulting.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:05 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am
Out of curiosity, why did you wait until right before FJ, with your adrenaline high and blood pumping, to consider these scenarios? Why didn't you run through all these potential scenarios (of which there aren't that many) weeks or months before you were on your show, in the comforts of your own home?
Well, maybe she didn't know who she was playing against until FJ rolled around.

Unlike you, Mr. I've memorized every single wagering scenario against every sort of opponent for values (Podium1(1-30000), Podium2(1-30000), Podium3(1-30000))

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by squarekara » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:51 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 pm
squarekara wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:53 am
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am
Out of curiosity, why did you wait until right before FJ, with your adrenaline high and blood pumping, to consider these scenarios? Why didn't you run through all these potential scenarios (of which there aren't that many) weeks or months before you were on your show, in the comforts of your own home?

For spur-of-the-moment reasoning, it's not bad, but of course, the actual correct decision should be derived from quantitative analysis taking into account prize money, confidence in the category, chances leader will get it right, maybe conditional probabilities, etc. Under certain assumptions, your play is okay, and under others, it's sub-optimal.

I will say that your assumption about Catherine knowing everything that you and David would doesn't make much sense. Maybe if she was a 10-day champion locking game after game, not when she has a nice debut game with a small Coryat lead over 2nd place.
Huh, I didn't realize Jeopardy was a children's cartoon of no consequence for any of the contestants. Does that mean everyone on this message board, yourself included, is a snotty fool for writing long posts about the games and players?

Although this perspective does explain your infantile post earlier in the topic, where you claimed of a contestant finishing 3rd
squarekara wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:08 pm
You played beautifully.
If I were the contestant, I would find this very patronizing and insulting.
I'll admit the Simpsons clip was only for the benefit of those on this board with a sense of humor and a modicum of self-awareness.

Now, how did you posit your original question to the contestant? "Out of curiosity," was it? Very graciously, she had already shared her experience and recounted her thought processes for the truly "curious." After this, you still felt it necessary, "out of curiosity," to call into question, in the most dismissive manner, her method of preparation and the very strategy she had just described.

I wished to highlight your post because, although Tracey identified herself as a "longtime lurker" on this board, we cannot assume that she has checked in often enough to truly appreciate your inimitable style--an acquired taste, to be sure. To those who believe the board could benefit from the firsthand insight and ongoing participation of a contestant, your post was an embarrassment.

My admiration of her gameplay was genuine, if infantile in your estimation. And it was further intended as a succinct and hospitable greeting that could possibly engender the positive feelings about JBoard that might lead her to contribute in the future. (That's called friendliness, by the way, should you encounter it one day and feel "patronized" or "insulted.")
Last edited by squarekara on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by AFRET CMS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:54 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 pm
Huh, I didn't realize Jeopardy was a children's cartoon of no consequence for any of the contestants. Does that mean everyone on this message board, yourself included, is a snotty fool for writing long posts about the games and players?

Although this perspective does explain your infantile post earlier in the topic, where you claimed of a contestant finishing 3rd
squarekara wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:08 pm
You played beautifully.
If I were the contestant, I would find this very patronizing and insulting.
Personally, I found this post to be unnecessary with little value added to the discussion. Would not have missed it had it not been posted.

Unlike some, I use a nom-de-board for convenience, not because I need to anonymize my opinions. Would be interested to see if IronNeck would be willing to post under his actual name.

Kevin Shrum, Fort Collins CO
Jeopardy alum March 21-23, 2017
I'm not the defending Jeopardy! champion. But I have played one on TV.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by badgerfellow » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:21 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 pm
squarekara wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:08 pm
You played beautifully.
If I were the contestant, I would find this very patronizing and insulting.
Well, a Coryat of 13600 is a heck of a lot higher than most contestants get, winning or not. Average in regular games is 10,701 as of today's stats: http://j-archive.com/miscstats.php?season=34

Also for comparison, here's a quote from April 12, 2017, given to a player (myself) with a Coryat of 8600:
IronNeck wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:27 am
badgerfellow wrote:Post
Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. You came across as a good player, but got a tough break. That is, you happened to be playing one of the harder games (in terms of opponents) I've seen in the past month.
Tell me how you wouldn't consider this patronizing, based on your definition above.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:27 pm

squarekara wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:51 pm
I'll admit the Simpsons clip was only for the benefit of those on this board with a sense of humor and a modicum of self-awareness.

Now, how did you posit your original question to the contestant? "Out of curiosity," was it? Very graciously, she had already shared her experience and recounted her thought processes for the truly "curious." After this, you still felt it necessary, "out of curiosity," to call into question, in the most dismissive manner, her method of preparation and the very strategy she had just described.

I wished to highlight your post because, although Tracey identified herself as a "longtime lurker" on this board, we cannot assume that she has checked in often enough to truly appreciate your inimitable style--an acquired taste, to be sure. To those who believe the board could benefit from the firsthand insight and ongoing participation of a contestant, your post was an embarrassment.

My admiration of her gameplay was genuine, if infantile in your estimation. And it was further intended as a succinct and hospitable greeting that could possibly engender the positive feelings about JBoard that might lead her to contribute in the future. (That's called friendliness, by the way, should you encounter it one day and feel "patronized" or "insulted.")
I talked to Tracey as a serious adult worthy of respect, inquiring about her strategy and thinking. You addressed her as a silly child, the way you tell them "you were awesome and amazing in every way!" after their first Little League game.

While I ignored your silly reply, you were seriously bothered by mine.

Now you double down and defend your approach. Comparing Jeopardy to a cartoon for kids was less embarrassing.
Afret wrote:Personally, I found this post to be unnecessary with little value added to the discussion. Would not have missed it had it not been posted.
Does YOUR post add anything to the discussion? Does the Simpsons clip squarekara I responded to add anything? Strange that you haven't admonished him/her and demanded their real name, isn't it?

If you're going to cheerlead for someone in an Internet argument, don't pretend it's for a noble cause. It's fooling no one.
badgerfellow wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:21 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:27 am
badgerfellow wrote:Post
Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. You came across as a good player, but got a tough break. That is, you happened to be playing one of the harder games (in terms of opponents) I've seen in the past month.
Tell me how you wouldn't consider this patronizing, based on your definition above.
Notice that I never stated you "played beautifully" or even did particularly well. Because neither would have been honest.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Volante » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:41 pm

I feel I might regret this but...
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am
Out of curiosity, why did you wait until right before FJ, with your adrenaline high and blood pumping, to consider these scenarios? Why didn't you run through all these potential scenarios (of which there aren't that many) weeks or months before you were on your show, in the comforts of your own home?
...
For spur-of-the-moment reasoning, it's not bad, but of course, the actual correct decision should be derived from quantitative analysis taking into account prize money, confidence in the category, chances leader will get it right, maybe conditional probabilities, etc. Under certain assumptions, your play is okay, and under others, it's sub-optimal.

I will say that your assumption about Catherine knowing everything that you and David would doesn't make much sense. Maybe if she was a 10-day champion locking game after game, not when she has a nice debut game with a small Coryat lead over 2nd place.
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:27 pm
I talked to Tracey as a serious adult worthy of respect, inquiring about her strategy and thinking.
For the life of me that first post does NOT read like being talked to as a serious adult worthy of respect. It sounds like a governess browbeating a charge. "Oh, adorable effort, considering how ill equipped to handle the world you are, but what you -should- have done to not invoke the ire of your betters is..."

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:00 am

Volante wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:41 pm
I feel I might regret this but...
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am
Out of curiosity, why did you wait until right before FJ, with your adrenaline high and blood pumping, to consider these scenarios? Why didn't you run through all these potential scenarios (of which there aren't that many) weeks or months before you were on your show, in the comforts of your own home?
...
For spur-of-the-moment reasoning, it's not bad, but of course, the actual correct decision should be derived from quantitative analysis taking into account prize money, confidence in the category, chances leader will get it right, maybe conditional probabilities, etc. Under certain assumptions, your play is okay, and under others, it's sub-optimal.

I will say that your assumption about Catherine knowing everything that you and David would doesn't make much sense. Maybe if she was a 10-day champion locking game after game, not when she has a nice debut game with a small Coryat lead over 2nd place.
IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:27 pm
I talked to Tracey as a serious adult worthy of respect, inquiring about her strategy and thinking.
For the life of me that first post does NOT read like being talked to as a serious adult worthy of respect. It sounds like a governess browbeating a charge. "Oh, adorable effort, considering how ill equipped to handle the world you are, but what you -should- have done to not invoke the ire of your betters is..."
I've ignored your desperate baiting post earlier in this topic, but congrats, I will reward you by answering this one. Part of treating someone as an adult, with respect means being forthright and not having to sugarcoat everything.

And if you think that was "browbeating", that's either a reflection of your own issues, or an outright lie because of your repeatedly stated dislike for me.

Your quote is a silly ad hominem having nothing to do with what was actually written.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by squarekara » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:35 am

IronNeck wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:27 pm
I talked to Tracey as a serious adult worthy of respect, inquiring about her strategy and thinking. You addressed her as a silly child, the way you tell them "you were awesome and amazing in every way!" after their first Little League game.

While I ignored your silly reply, you were seriously bothered by mine.
You ignored my reply? Don't you realize how exhausting it was to type that drek when all I wanted to say was "now go get your shinebox"? I'm miffed, I tell you, miffed.

No, I'm not one to give praise or criticism lightly, only where it's deserved or constructive or just plain entertaining. Tracey more than met my personal criteria for good gameplay, and whether she finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd makes no difference to me.

Kara Chandler
Jeopardy! Champion, Season 34

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by IronNeck » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:44 am

squarekara wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:35 am
Tracey more than met my personal criteria for good gameplay, and whether she finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd makes no difference to me.

Kara Chandler
Jeopardy! Champion, Season 34
Ah, thanks. That explains a lot.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by tlazareth » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:45 am

Well, reading this thread has been interesting. Now I remember why I never post on forums...

I will say that I truly appreciated the supportive comments I received from Kara and others on this board who have been in my situation and realize that, as prepared as you might think you are, it is difficult not to second guess yourself in the moment. I took their comments as sincere and did not find them insulting in the least. While I am a serious adult, I still appreciate kindness.

My original post was simply intended to explain my thought process for those who were curious. You can agree or disagree with it as you see fit and perhaps you would have taken a different route. To be honest, I'm fairly certain that, even if I had studied every possible wagering scenario and strategy, I would not have been able to recall them in the moment or would have doubted that the "correct" decision was the one I could live with. Honestly, I was just happy that I stayed upright.

I hope everyone on this board who is in the Jeopardy pool or would like to be has a chance to test their own wagering strategies. It was a wonderful experience, regardless of the outcome.

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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:20 am

IronNeck,

There are dozens of people who work very hard to try to ensure a welcoming experience for everyone, especially contestants, in this community.

Your posts are constantly at odds with that goal. When contestants are literally posting things questioning why they started a discussion after what frankly was the best post explaining contestant strategy on this board in weeks, it harms the community as a whole as future contestants see this and it makes them less than willing to do the same.

And that makes the community much worse off for it.
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Re: Monday, June 11, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by alietr » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 am

^ What he said.

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